How screwed am I?

[Rattus Suffocatus]

The Bosch was an awesome washer. Horrible dryer. It might be okay here in AZ but not in the humid Midwest. You needed to catch the end of the dry cycle immediately and open the door up completely to get stuff 90% dry.... It's a pity that they don't have the heated dry like everyone else, as it would be an excellent unit otherwise for the price. I got used to doing that.. An hour later you could finish up with some paper towels or a dish rag and I did that for probably 10 years or so. Replacement parts are expensive and things like water sensors go out a lot.

The GE's were cheap units no matter which ones you bought. Frigidare is okay if you have soft water, they fail fast with hard... so far the one with the house here has been okay... Kitchen Aid is probably great but I can't afford 'em!

 

[jseyfert3]

I'm in the camp of I'd rather rinse the dishes than frequently empty dishwasher filters, so if it's something that isn't reliably soluble in water it's going in the can or disposal. I will admit the new Kitchen Aid we put in works incredibly well though, better than the "washed fine but wouldn't dry plastic" GE it replaced, or the silly expensive Bosch we put in the previous house. Pro tip, don't buy a Bosch (washed fine, wouldn't dry anything).

Our current one doesn't dry plastic. Usually I just open it after running, flick off any water stuck on crevises in the plastic or on top of cups, then leave the racks pulled out (like a drying rack) for a couple hours. Then put things away once they're dry.

In Wisconsin (like me in Iowa previously and growing up in Illinois) you have to worry about mold if you don't rinse dishes off and let them sit for 2-3 days... Even the mold will wash off in a dishwasher.

2-3 days between loads, with teenagers? With just my wife and I we run on average once a day! We don't run it once a day usually, but then we run it two or three times in a day. It's a rare time if we go more than two days not using the dishwasher. I've never had an issue with dishes molding, except for food containers that are kept closed and not washed for a few days. So I always try and open my food containers so they dry out rather than mold.

I will admit the new Kitchen Aid we put in works incredibly well though, better than the "washed fine but wouldn't dry plastic" GE it replaced, or the silly expensive Bosch we put in the previous house.

The GE's were cheap units no matter which ones you bought

Hmm. There's an $1100 KitchenAid for sale at Home Depot and it just felt cheap compared to ours. The one that came with our house is a Kenmore Elite. My coworker who recently stopped pre-rinsing his dishes has a $1000 GE model.

Maybe I'll just put the dishwasher downstairs, prop it up on blocks and run it. Perhaps I can narrow down the leak and fix it rather than getting a new dishwasher.

 

[Newdude]

In Arizona, if you do that the food dries on to the plate and then doesn't come off during even an extended cycle

This is my issue. We might go several days with the new fits-alot dishwasher and by the time it’s full those 3 day old nacho plates have concreted cheese attached to them. So everything gets a good dusting off with a napkin and a quick rinse.

and my mom in Chicago is still in the hospital.. it's been a bad 6 weeks

*she and her family are now on my well wishing list.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Hmm. There's an $1100 KitchenAid for sale at Home Depot and it just felt cheap compared to ours. The one that came with our house is a Kenmore Elite. My coworker who recently stopped pre-rinsing his dishes has a $1000 GE model.

Generally speaking KitchenAid is one of the better models and GE is about as low as you can go. Maybe that particular KitchenAid was not good, but I would not wish GE on my worst enemy.
I'm convinced that GE gives home builders their appliance at steep discounts, knowing that they will make that money back on repairs and replacements in just a few years.

We ended up with a Bosch when we replaced our GE. It seemed like a good mix of price and quality, but agree with Rattus S on the drying part.

 

[Newdude]

We got all Samsung when we moved. It’s doing great so far. They said to never run the newer washers without rinse-aid, especially if they have the aluminum insides. Ours opens itself when it’s done but without the rinse aid the whole thing was SOAKED when finished. Now it’s much better.

 

[superuser]

Don't try to get a model or price out of me because I have no idea (wife picked it), but this Kitchen Aid model has some sort of forced air drying. There's an air duct outlet on the front of the unit, and you can ever so slightly hear a fan running for a while after it finishes the wash/rinse cycle. Seems like such a simple solution to the drying problem that it makes me wonder why more don't include a small fan to circulate air in/out of the washer.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

GE Appliance was bought by Haier (Chinese) in 2016. Its GE in nabe only; manufacture-wise, it’s cheap Chinese made junk. Don’t buy GE anymore. Every service person I asked says the Haier made stuff is total junk compared to pre-2016 GE models.

 

[magiteck]

Oh yeah, and I just fixed a design flaw in our Samsung fridge that causes the drain line to freeze up and water to collect in the bottom of the fridge. Now the freezer is wonky, not making ice and not getting down to the 0 °F I selected (it’s only getting down to like 14). The fun of homeownership!

I'd love to know how you fixed that. My POS Samsung fridge has the same problem.

 

[jseyfert3]

I'd love to know how you fixed that. My POS Samsung fridge has the same problem.

Sure. In short you need some metal from the defrost heater sticking into the drain line. Samsung has a recall for this and apparently you can get this metal clip to do this for free as part of the recall, but they will NOT pay for service labor. I figured I’d do the internet solution rather than spend an hour on the phone trying to get the part (though it also looks like you can buy it for like $10 easily enough).

Find somewhere to store your food for a few hours. Luckily I could put my food in my massive homebuilt kegerator (converted chest freezer) and freezer stuff I could put downstairs in my chest freezer.

Unplug the fridge, emove the plastic piece over the evaporator in the back of the fridge. This is like 6 Phillips screws. There are a couple plugs on the top side you will need to unplug once the panel is loose but before you yank it out too far.

The ice block at the bottom.

Removed the block but the drain itself is frozen, this took several hours to thaw out. I’ve seen other people use a hair dryer but I wasn’t in a hurry so I let it thaw naturally.

Verify it’s thawed by pouring a small amount of water down the drain, should freely drain. Next take some solid core stripped household wire, wraps it around the heater, and stick it down the drain. I think most people do just one, I did one stuck down the drain hose an inch or two and one on one of the side drain holes but not down the actual drain line, just for good measure.

That’s it. The idea is the metal conducts enough heat during defrost cycles to thaw ice building up in the drain line before it builds up to the point it blocks the line, at which point it will never thaw, causing the water to drip into the bottom of the fridge. I can’t say if this will work long term as apparently just thawing will “fix” it for a few months or so until the ice by chance builds up enough to block the drain line, but from what I’ve read this should fix it.

Now when I figure out why the freezer isn’t getting as cold as it should and the ice maker issue (which may be because the freezer isn’t getting as cold as it should) I’ll update you on that in case you have that issue at a later date as well.

I don’t think I’ll buy Samsung appliances in the future...

Thanks all for the info on GE, sounds like I should not get a GE dishwasher.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Samsung, Bosch & LG are maintenances/spare-parts nightmares. Service techs hate working on them because they are not designed for human hands to fit into. Parts are hard to get and ridiculously expensive. My LG dishwasher is a piece of junk ... pre-rinsing dishes is a requirement. Would never buy another LG product ever ...

 

[jseyfert3]

Samsung, Bosch & LG are maintenances/spare-parts nightmares. Service techs hate working on them because they are not designed for human hands to fit into. Parts are hard to get and ridiculously expensive. My LG dishwasher is a piece of junk ... pre-rinsing dishes is a requirement. Would never buy another LG product ever ...

So that leaves what? KitchenAid, Kenmore, and Whirlpool, if GE/Samsung/Bosch/LG are ruled out? Is Kenmore any good anymore? Sounds like it's difficult to find good appliances these days.

I am going to figure out where my current dishwasher (Kenmore Elite) is leaking and see if it's fixable. I can definitely get parts for it still, and it does a pretty good job washing.

Specifically on the Samsung fridge, I have another gripe (besides the water in the fridge issue and now the freezer issue). The door was right hand hinged, but the fridge is on the left side of the kitchen. I wanted to flip the doors. No biggie, right? All fridge doors can be flipped, right? NO! Well, yes, but the middle hinge, the one between the doors, is not symmetrical. So you need a different hinge if you want to flip the door opening direction! I looked around and most sites said it was discontinued, found one that claimed to be able to get it but said it was like April for estimated delivery, ordered one (a few weeks back) o see if I could get it. I'm not holding my breath on that though.

 

[Rattus Suffocatus]

Kenmore always has been relabeled something else. It used to be mostly GE but that changed with Haier. There was a bit of LG mixed in at the end.

So, if it's a good unit from the original manufacturer, it's also a good unit with Kenmore. Who owns the brand now anyway? It's probably not Sears.

It's interesting that you had the freeze up problem. We had a Samsung refrigerator in Iowa (and to leave it with the house) and what I ended up doing was getting some heat tape and wiring it into the defrost circuit. That fixed it 100%.

Of course my chest freezer and my keezer are Haier freezers... so far so good...fingers crossed.....

Fixing the old one is definitely an option if you can figure out what's wrong with it and you can still get parts for it. I've done that with all of my dishwashers so far. Including the current one that was only 1.5 years old at the time...

 

[Turbo1Ton]

This is nuts. I had the freeze up problem in my 17 year old Whirlpool. I would have to thaw it out occasionally. Haven't had to do that in quite a while. I always wondered if it wasn't due to someone not quite getting the door closed. But that was exactly what was happening, is the drain was freezing, just like you explained. If it does it again, I'm trying that wire trick.

I had a Bosch DW installed in 2001 that I replaced with another Bosch about 5 years ago. We replaced it because my wife didn't like that it wouldn't dry the dishes. The new one wouldn't either. Turns out when you are running 50% plastic dishes in there, the heat buildup isn't enough to get them dry. We quit washing plastic in the dishwasher and they dry much better now. I never rinse the dishes and they typically come out sparkling. I have always heard that the detergents need the food particles to 'attack' and that they can etch the glassware if there is nothing for the detergent to clean. Don't know how true that is, but it has been working for me for the past 20+ years.

Any of the Korean brands are terrible for getting parts, according to a recent discussion with an appliance sales person. Also said don't opt for the high end stuff. Get the middle of the road. Usually the same as the high end but maybe a few of the finishes are not as nice. Never get builder grade.

Your cleanup is looking good. You might spray the studs and any exposed wood areas with Kilz to possibly contain anything left, but I would be inclined to button that up if it were mine.

--Jeff

 

[magiteck]

Thanks for this awesome write-up. I tackled mine tonight, with the hairdryer. It was definitely frozen solid.

Of course, it was just slightly different from yours, but I took the same approach.

Refrigerator

• magiteck
• Feb 1, 2021
• 2

Thankfully, this time of year in Wisconsin the garage makes for a fine backup refrigerator.

Will hope for the best.

Sure. In short you need some metal from the defrost heater sticking into the drain line. Samsung has a recall for this and apparently you can get this metal clip to do this for free as part of the recall, but they will NOT pay for service labor. I figured I’d do the internet solution rather than spend an hour on the phone trying to get the part (though it also looks like you can buy it for like $10 easily enough).

Find somewhere to store your food for a few hours. Luckily I could put my food in my massive homebuilt kegerator (converted chest freezer) and freezer stuff I could put downstairs in my chest freezer.

Unplug the fridge, emove the plastic piece over the evaporator in the back of the fridge. This is like 6 Phillips screws. There are a couple plugs on the top side you will need to unplug once the panel is loose but before you yank it out too far.

The ice block at the bottom.

Removed the block but the drain itself is frozen, this took several hours to thaw out. I’ve seen other people use a hair dryer but I wasn’t in a hurry so I let it thaw naturally.

Verify it’s thawed by pouring a small amount of water down the drain, should freely drain. Next take some solid core stripped household wire, wraps it around the heater, and stick it down the drain. I think most people do just one, I did one stuck down the drain hose an inch or two and one on one of the side drain holes but not down the actual drain line, just for good measure.

That’s it. The idea is the metal conducts enough heat during defrost cycles to thaw ice building up in the drain line before it builds up to the point it blocks the line, at which point it will never thaw, causing the water to drip into the bottom of the fridge. I can’t say if this will work long term as apparently just thawing will “fix” it for a few months or so until the ice by chance builds up enough to block the drain line, but from what I’ve read this should fix it.

Now when I figure out why the freezer isn’t getting as cold as it should and the ice maker issue (which may be because the freezer isn’t getting as cold as it should) I’ll update you on that in case you have that issue at a later date as well.

I don’t think I’ll buy Samsung appliances in the future...

Thanks all for the info on GE, sounds like I should not get a GE dishwasher.

 

[Mdragger88]

Yeah it only backs up if we run the dishwasher with the drain plugged which makes sense. It doesn't fill up the dishwasher if it's just plugged up on it's own... Like I said, the dishwasher just shuts off at that point which is a little more than just annoying, I've not ever had any leak out. It does pull in crud from the plug though which is why it has to be rinsed out when that happens.

Like I also said, I just tell everyone in the house to make sure that the left sink is empty, all of the forks and knives are out of the disposer, and then to run it for about 10 seconds... it's not a major problem.

Have u ever tried one of these?

Best invention EVA! I wish I would have had one back when i was fishing pacis out of the drain with tongs!

 

[JJ_Tex]

Interesting on the fridge. My LG did that last year where water would pool and freeze under the bottom freezer, then eventually puddle in front of the fridge.

The little tube that takes the water from the freezer to the drip pan when it defrosts was plugged up with lint/algae. That caused everything to back up into the freezer. After I defrosted it, I was able to get all of the gunk cleaned out with a pipe cleaner and it has worked fine ever since.

If any of you are messing with yours by adding the metal piece to the top, you might as well take a few minutes and run a pipe cleaner through it in case you also have the same issue I was having.

 

[jseyfert3]

Of course my chest freezer and my keezer are Haier freezers... so far so good...fingers crossed.....

My chest freezer is a Whirlpool I got when working at Lowe's in college. My kreezer is a Frigidaire. When building the kreezer I started with an old free one but the starting relay died, plus it was a terrible energy hog. I considered cheap chest freezers, especially as I had a bunch of rebates to Menard's from building the fence, but I couldn't bring myself to buy a cheap appliance like that. Got the Frigidaire instead, spent the rebate on my pellet grill.

The good thing about chest freezers is the compressor is the only moving part. No fans/valves/drain lines/etc. So in general they should be much more reliable than other types of appliances.

Thanks for this awesome write-up. I tackled mine tonight, with the hairdryer. It was definitely frozen solid.

Of course, it was just slightly different from yours, but I took the same approach.

Your welcome. Looks like your defrost heater dips down to the drain line? Does that bracket go into the drain or just right next to it. It almost looks like that's a newer design where the heater was moved lower to melt ice, but of course if so it didn't work as good as it should have.

Thankfully, this time of year in Wisconsin the garage makes for a fine backup refrigerator.

Ah yes, of course!

 

[kimkats]

Side note------------I love how this thread has evolved! So much sharing and learning going on! THIS is just another reason I LOVE TFP!!!

 

[magiteck]

Your welcome. Looks like your defrost heater dips down to the drain line? Does that bracket go into the drain or just right next to it. It almost looks like that's a newer design where the heater was moved lower to melt ice, but of course if so it didn't work as good as it should have.

The little bracket was off to the side. I actually moved it over while I had it apart so that it dipped down into the drain line, hopefully that will help a little bit too. Then I added the short piece of copper wire on the outside, and one that goes probably 6-8 inches down the drain hole. I'll find out in a couple months if it works, of course.

 

[Arizonarob]

Side note------------I love how this thread has evolved! So much sharing and learning going on! THIS is just another reason I LOVE TFP!!!

That’s cause we’re all home and bored to tears! I’d even talk about watching paint dry if it’ll keep us entertained.