Hayward pump pulling air somewhere

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Tom1986

Active member
May 17, 2021
27
Canada
Hello,

I have a Hayward MaxFlo VS pump. I think I might have a side suction air leak and the specific symptoms I noticed along with pictures of my setup are below. I'm looking for troubleshooting steps I can try to find the leak.

1) its taking longer to prime
2) the suction as well as return is weaker once it did prime
3) the pump lid never fills completely with water like I'm pretty sure it used to and when priming, it looks like there is a mix of water and air being pulled in
4) there are air bubbles coming out of the return jets

Things I have tried:
1) I first replaced the orings in the diverter valve since it was leaking water and I thought I heard air once I turned off the pump
2) I replaced the oring in the pump lid
3) edit: after searching similar issues, I tried putting soapy water on sections between the pump and the ground hose but haven't found anything yet.

Note: I used 3in1 silicone lube for the oring which comes in a pressurized can and isn't very viscous. Not sure if that's okay. Edit: I tried soapy water around it and doesn't look like it's being pulled in.

20230612_183656.jpg

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Last edited:
I have had no luck with the soapy water test. Should I start digging where the hoses go into the ground in pic 2? What am I likely to find if so? Or a should I continue with some other checks above ground?

The white hose connection with the hose clamp going from my pump to filter is a bit weak in that when I play with it (twist it a bit), some water leaks and think I can hear some air after pump is turned off. I can adjust it though so that it stops happening. Is that possibly the problem or it has to be before the propeller? The hose also shakes a lot during priming but could just be from pumping air(leaked earlier) + water through it.

What about the valve that goes from the pump into the hole into back of the shed from pic 1? Soapy water test hasn't shown anything but I have a spare and I see it has an o ring in it. Im notnsure what that blue sealant is that was used though so the connection could be worse than a new one I make.
 
Have you read through this article?

www.troublefreepool.com

Leak Detection

A number of things can cause leaks in your pool. You can learn tricks for leak detection and how to pinpoint where your pool is losing water.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

You should use a pool lube for the pump o-ring.

Did you grease the o-ring in the union before the pump suction?

How does it run when your multiport valve is in bypass?
 
MITBeta said:
Have you read through this article?

www.troublefreepool.com

Leak Detection

A number of things can cause leaks in your pool. You can learn tricks for leak detection and how to pinpoint where your pool is losing water.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

You should use a pool lube for the pump o-ring.

Did you grease the o-ring in the union before the pump suction?

How does it run when your multiport valve is in bypass?
Click to expand...
Yeah I found that one a little while after opening the thread, but so far been unable to detect the air leak.

I have tried bypassing the filter on "recirculate" but there's no difference.

I used the following lube. Is this insufficient?
Screenshot_20230614_105912.jpg
 
I purchased pool lube and lubed both the cover o-ring and the union before the suction, but unfortunately no change.

While troubleshooting, I noticed that the hose that connects the pump and the filter which is attached with hose clamps (see first pic) leaks during prime. It started happening while troubleshooting and playing with the connections. I made it stop by tightening/adjusting them. Can I rule that out though given it's after the pump?

I noticed during prime that the pump sort of revs up and down and the water level beneath the pump lid goes up and down repeatedly and the hose shakes like a lot of air is passing through it. On 50% power, the chlorinator detects "no flow". I have to turn it up past 80 for it to chlorinate.

The PSI shows 5. The creeper vac works but for some reason, it's not enough suction for the manual vacuum.

Any ideas?
 

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Tom1986 said:
Can I rule that out though given it's after the pump?
Click to expand...
Yes
Tom1986 said:
I noticed during prime that the pump sort of revs up and down and the water level beneath the pump lid goes up and down repeatedly and the hose shakes like a lot of air is passing through it
Click to expand...
Check the skimmer weir, water level, etc. The air is getting in somewhere.
 
mknauss said:
Yes

Check the skimmer weir, water level, etc. The air is getting in somewhere.
Click to expand...
Skimmer weir, water level are okay. It happens too with a hose for creeper vac.

mas985 said:
Don't forget the drain plugs.
Click to expand...
I lubed those too but no luck

One thing I noticed is when I shut off the pump, a fair sized water bubble pops up at the pump lid.

This whole issue did not happen at the beginning of this season. It happened around the time I was fixing a leak in a solar panel after winter. I tried patchING it but water was still leaking out so I had to repair it with a kit. Can I rule that out?

Also as mentioned in the beginning of the thread there was a leak in the pentair/conpool diverter which controls whether the solar panels are on or not. I fixed it by replacing the 2 stacked o rings. While fixing it, I noticed another oring was very stretched and not staying in place but I couldn't find a replacement. It's #6 from:

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com acrobat.adobe.com

Can I rule that out as well?

I'm beginning to think it must be the line underground since nothing is working. I called a pool service place and they said $220/hr + materials for service calls and that doesn't even come with a guarantee. Who knows how costly that will be in the end.
 
To rule out underground issues, you can run a temporary suction line from the pump to the pool on the ground. Takes some pipe, etc to do. But cheaper than that service call.
 
Oh one more thing: I've noticed the pump lid is a lot harder to open like a lot of pressure keeping it on tight. BUT when I do release it, I'm getting hit in the face by some water and I think it's through the lid. I replaced the oring and lubed it prior but do you think I should just get a new lid? Any way to tell for sure if it's worth going that route?
 
Tom1986 said:
One thing I noticed is when I shut off the pump, a fair sized water bubble pops up at the pump lid.
Click to expand...
That really isn't a big deal. It only becomes a big deal if the water level in the pump starts to drop below the inlet port.

Tom1986 said:
This whole issue did not happen at the beginning of this season. It happened around the time I was fixing a leak in a solar panel after winter. I tried patchING it but water was still leaking out so I had to repair it with a kit. Can I rule that out?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can rule that out and anything else on the return side of the pump. Air leaks generally happen only on the suction side of the pump with 2 caveats.

When the pump is off, air can sometimes leak into filters so when you turn on the pump there is a lot of air ejected out of the returns. However, this only happens for a few minutes and stops.

The second caveat is for solar systems with a VRV on top of the roof. Sometimes when filters get dirty or the pump is run on lower RPM, air will leak into the VRV and show up in the returns.

In both these cases, you will see air out of the returns but not in the pump basket. Any air in the pump basket will be caused by a suction side air leak.

Tom1986 said:
Also as mentioned in the beginning of the thread there was a leak in the pentair/conpool diverter which controls whether the solar panels are on or not. I fixed it by replacing the 2 stacked o rings. While fixing it, I noticed another oring was very stretched and not staying in place but I couldn't find a replacement. It's #6 from:

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com acrobat.adobe.com

Can I rule that out as well?
Click to expand...
That too is on the return side so would not show up in the pump basket. Nor would it cause air out of the returns.
 
I had a suction side issue too, and it took way too long for me to figure it out. What it was: I have 2 cut off valves prior to the pump, one for the skimmers and one for the drain. I took apart the valve head and saw an O ring inside. I took that out, cleaned it and lubed it, put it back in. No more air in the pump.
 
My suction side setup is pretty simple in that I just have one ball valve between the pump and the skimmer. I previously lubed the oring but that didn't work. What would you guys do if you wanted to troubleshoot it further? I took some pics so you can see. Would you replace the oring?(how would I know which one to get?) The whole valve? I don't know what the blue and black glue is between the fittings. If someone could provide instructions, i would really appreciate it.

Screenshot_20230619-150709_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20230619-150739_Gallery.jpg

Screenshot_20230619-150705_Gallery.jpg
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Not really a pool valve. I would take plastic wrap and try to get it around the stem area. See if you can get it to seal. Replacing with a proper Jandy style valve may be prudent.
 
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