First timer advice/thoughts for AGP

[raysaint]

Ok, so rather than let pool company balance water the day of closing (which would mean no circulation), here's what I was going to do myself.
What should I test before closing? Just PH and FC or everything?
Vacuum 4 days before close (and keep skimming leaves until closing).
Get my PH to about 7.5?
Slam the pool 3 or 4 days before closing, so it can circulate for 2 days. Can I add all the chlorine at once (slowly) or do I have to add over the course of a few hours (like when water is green, which mine isn't?)
Add polyquat algaecide 1 or 2 days before closing, for circulation time. The BioGuard poly is only 30%, is that enough?
Then should I test once more before closing?

 

[Mdragger88]

I test all parameters & record them.
Adjust ph if needed- 7.5 is fine.
Raise fc to slam & close her up. An hour or two of circulation is fine.
I don’t use polyquat (or any algaecide)
but if you wish to do so you will want to wait until fc has fallen a little (about 1/2 way between slam & target) before adding it as high fc degrades the polyquat some.
The point of raising to slam is so that anything that could be in there is killed & you know you are closing up a clean pool- so an all at once addition of liquid chlorine is recommended. It also means fc is high enough to last all winter hopefully(mine always does). The polyquat is just insurance incase it doesn’t. It isn’t necessary to wait days to circulate your additions.

 

[phonedave]

Ok, so rather than let pool company balance water the day of closing (which would mean no circulation), here's what I was going to do myself.
What should I test before closing? Just PH and FC or everything?
Vacuum 4 days before close (and keep skimming leaves until closing).
Get my PH to about 7.5?
Slam the pool 3 or 4 days before closing, so it can circulate for 2 days. Can I add all the chlorine at once (slowly) or do I have to add over the course of a few hours (like when water is green, which mine isn't?)
Add polyquat algaecide 1 or 2 days before closing, for circulation time. The BioGuard poly is only 30%, is that enough?
Then should I test once more before closing?

Are you vacuuming 4 days before closing because that is what your schedule permits? Vacuum as close to closing as you can. The whole point is you want to close as clean a pool as possible

7.5 is fine

Circulation is 2 hours, not 2 days. Set up your vacuum, dump the bleach in, in front of the return while the filter is running, and then vacuum. By the time you are done vacuuming, everything should be mixed well enough.

No advice on algaecide. I never use it

 

[raysaint]

Are you vacuuming 4 days before closing because that is what your schedule permits? Vacuum as close to closing as you can. The whole point is you want to close as clean a pool as possible

7.5 is fine

Circulation is 2 hours, not 2 days. Set up your vacuum, dump the bleach in, in front of the return while the filter is running, and then vacuum. By the time you are done vacuuming, everything should be mixed well enough.

No advice on algaecide. I never use it

The 4 days before for vacuuming was in case I had problems. However, I'm going to set it up within the next few days and make sure all works well. If so, I'll vacuum the morning before, weather permitting.
Is there a reason you can't slam a couple days before? typical chlorine decrease, I assume.
When I slam I'll turn the pump up to high to ensure good circ, then maybe add the Bioguard polyquat, which is only a 30% solution, not 60%.

 

[phonedave]

The 4 days before for vacuuming was in case I had problems. However, I'm going to set it up within the next few days and make sure all works well. If so, I'll vacuum the morning before, weather permitting.
Is there a reason you can't slam a couple days before? typical chlorine decrease, I assume.
When I slam I'll turn the pump up to high to ensure good circ, then maybe add the Bioguard polyquat, which is only a 30% solution, not 60%.

The idea is that you want to close your pool with no contamination and as high a FC as possible (within normal bounds)

If you SLAM the pool 4 days before hand, that leaves 4 days for contaminants to get into the water, and for the FC to drop before closing due to sunlight.

 

[raysaint]

Gotcha. Besides FC being at slam level, and Ph about 7.5, any other chemical targets to shoot for. My CYA may be about 35 - 40, TA I haven't tested lately.
Fc was 0.2 the other day.
Side question; when I test PH, I hold the Taylor comparator tube in front of a north window, but it still looks different shades of pink just moving the tube slightly right or left. Does that matter, for accuracy?

 

[Mdragger88]

Hold the sample tube infront of something white for accuracy - a piece of paper will do.
Fc of .2 is an open invitation for algae.
With a cya of 40 you should never fall below 3ppm.

 

[raysaint]

Hold the sample tube infront of something white for accuracy - a piece of paper will do.
Fc of .2 is an open invitation for algae.
With a cya of 40 you should never fall below 3ppm.

Sorry, my typo. Combined chlorine was 0.2. FC was above 5.

 

[Mdragger88]

Sorry, my typo. Combined chlorine was 0.2. FC was above 5.

I was wondering.. you’ve been such a great student so it seemed out of place!

 

[raysaint]

And getting back to my vacuum issue from my first attempt, turns out my brand new hose has little holes along a few ridges; looks like it was dragged on something. I didn't do it. Tried today to charge the hose and saw the bubbles spitting out. Put some Goop marine glue on the spots, we'll see tomorrow.
Gonna call the pool place for warranty.
Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Mdragger88]

I hope they give u a new one, vac hoses aren’t cheap. Makes sense that you have had issues from the get go with it.

 

[raysaint]

So when I slam my pool just before closing/covering, won't this raise/affect the combined chlorine? Or does it matter?
My understanding is CC comes from not letting your chlorine level come down regularly, always keeping it at the high end of your target FC.

 

[Mdragger88]

So when I slam my pool just before closing/covering, won't this raise/affect the combined chlorine? Or does it matter?
My understanding is CC comes from not letting your chlorine level come down regularly, always keeping it at the high end of your target FC.

Cc’s are “spent/used up” chlorine for lack of a more simplistic term. If there are no organics/bather waste for fc to consume then there shouldn’t be an elevated cc problem after raising to slam level.
The last part of your statement is absolutely not correct about higher fc levels.

CC - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[raysaint]

Cc’s are “spent/used up” chlorine for lack of a more simplistic term. If there are no organics/bather waste for fc to consume then there shouldn’t be an elevated cc problem after raising to slam level.
The last part of your statement is absolutely not correct about higher fc levels.

CC - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

As usual, the interweb is full of not so good info. So next year, if my FC target is 5-7, keeping it at 7 isn't going to create a CC issue? And my CC right now is 0.2, is that low enough? How would someone get it lower, or how does it lower on its own, assuming my FC is always good.
Just read the article, so if most of my FC is busy doing it's normal thing to a large degree or gets used up quick based on bathers/weather etc., , then CC can climb? And if FC has a lot of work to do, then the high side of FC target is better. And right now my FC has little to do, so no "used up" FC should be happening.

 

[phonedave]

As usual, the interweb is full of not so good info. So next year, if my FC target is 5-7, keeping it at 7 isn't going to create a CC issue? And my CC right now is 0.2, is that low enough? How would someone get it lower, or how does it lower on its own, assuming my FC is always good.

Check this thread - Breakpoint Chlorination - "Point of no return"

When the chlorine reacts with the ammonia it creates chloramines, it then further oxidizes the chloramines. However if you do not have enough chlorine, the chloramines do not get oxidized, and the remain in the pool.

FC and sunlight further oxidize the chloramines, so they then off gas and reduce.

How are you measuring 0.2 ppm CC? Normal tests are accurate to 0.5 ppm (or 0.25 if you double the volume) Either way 0.2 is fine.
You can SLAM the pool to get rid of the CC if you want.

If your target FC is 5-7 (based on CYA) then you are fine at 7, unless something happens. What does that mean? Lets say you have a pool party, with a bunch of children, who then "release a lot of ammonia products". The large amount of ammonia is going to get converted to CC, and likely you will not have enough FC left over to fully oxidize all of the CC. When you test, your FC will likely be low, and your CC higher. That is when you know "something happened" and you SLAM to get rid of the CC, kill off anything else that may be floating around in the water, and build up your bank of FC

Combined Chloramines don't "just happen", they are a result of FC reacting with ammonia waste compounds. The recommend levels are based on having enough FC in the water in relation to CYA to provide a level of safety against "normal" contamination. If something outside the realm of "normal" happens, then you need to react appropriately. The converse is also true. In theory, if you SLAMed your pool to sanitize it, and then never introduced any waste products, you would never have any CC's.

 

[raysaint]

Check this thread - Breakpoint Chlorination - "Point of no return"

When the chlorine reacts with the ammonia it creates chloramines, it then further oxidizes the chloramines. However if you do not have enough chlorine, the chloramines do not get oxidized, and the remain in the pool.

FC and sunlight further oxidize the chloramines, so they then off gas and reduce.

How are you measuring 0.2 ppm CC? Normal tests are accurate to 0.5 ppm (or 0.25 if you double the volume) Either way 0.2 is fine.
You can SLAM the pool to get rid of the CC if you want.

If your target FC is 5-7 (based on CYA) then you are fine at 7, unless something happens. What does that mean? Lets say you have a pool party, with a bunch of children, who then "release a lot of ammonia products". The large amount of ammonia is going to get converted to CC, and likely you will not have enough FC left over to fully oxidize all of the CC. When you test, your FC will likely be low, and your CC higher. That is when you know "something happened" and you SLAM to get rid of the CC, kill off anything else that may be floating around in the water, and build up your bank of FC

Combined Chloramines don't "just happen", they are a result of FC reacting with ammonia waste compounds. The recommend levels are based on having enough FC in the water in relation to CYA to provide a level of safety against "normal" contamination. If something outside the realm of "normal" happens, then you need to react appropriately. The converse is also true. In theory, if you SLAMed your pool to sanitize it, and then never introduced any waste products, you would never have any CC's.

Thanks, I'll try and absorb that before next year's opening. I measure CC using the Taylor kit/method.
My next post is the one I need answered.

 

[raysaint]

Closing confusion. A pool company is coming Oct. 21. After input and reading on here, my plan was: vacuum the day before; slam the pool the morning of (for 2-3 hours of circulation); let them bring water level down, put cover on, remove pump/piping etc., bring it inside, add anti-freeze to pump to keep gaskets lubed.
Then, a lady told me, not to slam before they come because then when they lower the water level, you're reducing the amount of chlorine in the water. That's why pool companies bring the chemicals with them, they add the chemicals after lowering the water, swish chemicals around with the leaf net, then close it.
My thoughts: 1) the chlorine is a percentage in the water, so no matter how much water you take out, the chlorine % should be the same for the amount of water in the pool; 2) if you slam after lowering water and swish it around, you can't accurately test it (insufficient circulation) so how do you know you're at slam level?

 

[JoeSelf]

#1 Correct - your FC will remain as measured.

#2 I agree, better to mix with the pump than by hand.

 

[phonedave]

Closing confusion. A pool company is coming Oct. 21. After input and reading on here, my plan was: vacuum the day before; slam the pool the morning of (for 2-3 hours of circulation); let them bring water level down, put cover on, remove pump/piping etc., bring it inside, add anti-freeze to pump to keep gaskets lubed.
Then, a lady told me, not to slam before they come because then when they lower the water level, you're reducing the amount of chlorine in the water. That's why pool companies bring the chemicals with them, they add the chemicals after lowering the water, swish chemicals around with the leaf net, then close it.
My thoughts: 1) the chlorine is a percentage in the water, so no matter how much water you take out, the chlorine % should be the same for the amount of water in the pool; 2) if you slam after lowering water and swish it around, you can't accurately test it (insufficient circulation) so how do you know you're at slam level?

Let's say you have a 10,000 gallon pool and you need to add 4 gallons of bleach to get it where it needs to be. Then the pool company comes by and lowers it to 7,500 gallons (25%). If that was the case, then in theory they would only need 3 gallons of bleach to get it to the same ppm by adding it after they drained some water. Saving you a gallon.

That is the theory. In practice it will not be as well circulated, and perhaps more to the point, they are likely charge you at least double what you would pay for the bleach - so you are still saving money even by "wasting" the chemicals that were drained off when they lowered the water.

 

[raysaint]

Let's say you have a 10,000 gallon pool and you need to add 4 gallons of bleach to get it where it needs to be. Then the pool company comes by and lowers it to 7,500 gallons (25%). If that was the case, then in theory they would only need 3 gallons of bleach to get it to the same ppm by adding it after they drained some water. Saving you a gallon.

That is the theory. In practice it will not be as well circulated, and perhaps more to the point, they are likely charge you at least double what you would pay for the bleach - so you are still saving money even by "wasting" the chemicals that were drained off when they lowered the water.

I still have a 10 litre jug of chlorine (2.6 gallons), and I'll only need some of it to slam. I told them I don't need their chemicals (I'm buying the algaecide). Pool math says I'll need about 4500 ml (4.5 litres) of chlorine to slam. That's different than your example (4 gals. for 10K gal. pool). My pool is about 13,000 gals.
If my CYA is 40, slam FC is 16. My current FC I'm holding at about 5.5 - 6.0.
Saving money isn't too relevant, I want to do it right, and 10 litres of chlorine is about $9.00.