First timer advice/thoughts for AGP

[VinnyinNJ]

I believe most if not all AG filter systems require to be below the water level of the pool and they don't self prime, at least that's has always been my thought. Although I had one of those caps to put onto the skimmer if I needed to manually vacuum I would just use the automatic cleaner hose. It had a self regulating valving system that would let the correct water flow into the skimmer. But the few times I did use it I tok the dkimmer basket out of the skimmer.

But with that said I would typically go to the return, have it force water through the hose until there were no bubbles coming out of the vacuum or auto cleaner then quickly hook the end of the hose with the valve I spoke about into the skimmer. All the debris went into the skimmer basket inside the pump, If it picked up a lot of large debris (leaves) then I would have to stop the process and empty the pump basket. Whenever my last filter seemed to be getting too much air intake I would open the air valve on top of the filter and let the air escape ... it also seemed to take care of the pump as well when I did that. I don't have my new pool yet and I'm getting a Hayward sand filter so it'll be a learning experience of what to do with that; it could be a whole different experience!

 

[Mdragger88]

A couple of questions,
Are you in filter mode?
& Do u have the pump on high or low speed when attempting to vacuum? Sometimes suction side leaks (resulting in pump basket bubbles) become more apparent when on high vs normal low speed operation.
Also in general u don’t want any air to get in - if the too much air gets in you will get air lock. Most pumps can overcome a small amount of air after a few minutes if it is remedied.
Try this turnoff the pump (after it was previously operating properly),
put the vac plate on & ensure the water level is higher than the top of the plate or that the fitting of the plate is filled with water,
then keep your hand over the completely full hose as long as possible before connecting it to the plate & then turn the pump back on.
Also be certain the swivel end of the hose is on the vac head not the vac plate as it will introduce air.
Closing the valve is unnecessary & doesn’t really accomplish anything. Most above ground pools don’t even have a valve there.
Once u get it a few times you will have it down pat.
You’re not wrong, manually vacuuming is definitely a pain in the rear with juggling the hose, pole, turning the pump on/off etc.
It sounds very complicated when written out like this so I suggest you watch a few videos as it all can be done fairly quickly.
Each pool, vac, & its associated equipment/adapters all have different variables that can complicate the process as I mentioned is the case in my pool. I am short so I must vac from inside the pool, this makes dealing with the pump if there is an issue a pain in the rear as it is a long walk out of the pool & around the deck. My solution was to take the vac plate, skimmer basket, & weir door out of the equation so i could keep the pump running & keep the hose submerged throughout the entire connecting process into the skimmer pipe then after vacuuming was completed I could get out of the pool & go turn the pump off, put everything back, clean the pump basket & turn the pump back on. I had the same issue with the mamba/ kreepy krauly suction side vac, I couldn’t trust it & had to babysit it the whole time, they both live in the shed now. There’s multiple ways to skin this cat - u gotta find the way that works for u.

 

[raysaint]

So it's really 2 issues now; vacuuming, and pump running properly (has big bubbles).
Yes I turned off the pump, turned it on to high to vacuum. I have no filter mode, my cartridge filter has no settings.
I think I know the mistakes I made for the vac; didn't get all air out of hose; once I saw bubbles coming from vac head, I thought it was purged (wrong); and I need to connect vac plate under water and hold my hand over it to put in skimmer. . Here's hoping.
My attempt to reprime my "self priming" pump didn't work, if that's even the fix.
My steps: turn off pump, close shutoff valve from skimmer (thinking water shouldn't be running into pump with it off), open filter air relief and drain water, close filter shutoff to return, clean pump, fill with water, put lid back on, open shutoff from skimmer, turn pump on, wait for steady stream out the air relief, open shutoff to return, close air relief.
Maybe I should have let pump run with air relief closed? I thought it wouldn't be good to have pump running with no way to move water out.
Anyway, pump has big bubbles under the lid, wasn't like that before my vac attempt. Return jet is fine, no bubbles.

 

[Mdragger88]

Leave the valve(s) open so air can escape from there as well as the air relief.
Even the one to the skimmer if you are just trying to prime the pump by loosening the pump basket cover so air escapes & not removing it to clean out the basket.

 

[raysaint]

Haven't had a chance to try new methods to vac or get bubbles out of pump, been raining for 2 days (first real rain we've had since pool was filled.)
Is there anything I should do different or special after rain? How does rain affect chemistry? PH maybe? And as water level rises in skimmer, would I ever need to pump water out of the pool?

 

[Mdragger88]

Rain has little effect unless it blows in lots of debris or something. Continue to maintain target fc levels.
If the water gets too high(above the skimmer opening) u would want to pump it out with a submersible pump or a siphon to prevent over flowing as u don’t have an option to drain unless u have a multi port valve.

 

[phonedave]

When you crack open the lid on your filter strainer until water runs out, and then you tighten the lid, there will always be a bit of air trapped in the strainer. The lid is domed, so when you put it on, it traps some air. This is not a big deal, and over time, the air will mix into the water and eventually be removed. I think this is what you are calling "big bubbles"

Here are the steps I take to start vacuuming.

1) Turn on the filter.
2) Remove weir door
3) Set up vacuum and purge hose (The swivel end needs to go on the vacuum head)
4) Leave the skimmer basket in, remove the skimmer cover
5) I push the hose through the skimmer face, and attach it to the vacuum plate, and then put the plate on top of the skimmer basket.

I don't bother with trying to hold my hand over the hose, or connect it underwater, or anything like that. I do it smoothly enough that any air that does get into the hose is easily handled by my filter and pump.

If I am not using the plate, I do all of the above, but I remove the skimmer basket just stick the hose end directly into skimmer from the top.

 

[raysaint]

When you crack open the lid on your filter strainer until water runs out, and then you tighten the lid, there will always be a bit of air trapped in the strainer. The lid is domed, so when you put it on, it traps some air. This is not a big deal, and over time, the air will mix into the water and eventually be removed. I think this is what you are calling "big bubbles"

Here are the steps I take to start vacuuming.

1) Turn on the filter.
2) Remove weir door
3) Set up vacuum and purge hose (The swivel end needs to go on the vacuum head)
4) Leave the skimmer basket in, remove the skimmer cover
5) I push the hose through the skimmer face, and attach it to the vacuum plate, and then put the plate on top of the skimmer basket.

I don't bother with trying to hold my hand over the hose, or connect it underwater, or anything like that. I do it smoothly enough that any air that does get into the hose is easily handled by my filter and pump.

If I am not using the plate, I do all of the above, but I remove the skimmer basket just stick the hose end directly into skimmer from the top.

When you say filter strainer, do you mean the filter, or the pool pump? I have a cartridge filter. It's my pump that had bubbles after my attempt to re-prime ( which it probably didn't need) after cleaning its basket.
Today the pump bubbles are gone, like you suggested.
Your vacuum method, you say turn on the filter; mine is never off, it continually takes water from the pump. Should I turn off the pump until the vac plate is in place? I turned it off the first time to make it easier to get the vac plate in and the weir door to move up out of the way.

 

[phonedave]

When you say filter strainer, do you mean the filter, or the pool pump? I have a cartridge filter. It's my pump that had bubbles after my attempt to re-prime ( which it probably didn't need) after cleaning its basket.
Today the pump bubbles are gone, like you suggested.
Your vacuum method, you say turn on the filter; mine is never off, it continually takes water from the pump. Should I turn off the pump until the vac plate is in place? I turned it off the first time to make it easier to get the vac plate in and the weir door to move up out of the way.

I have a bad habit of using pump and filter interchangeably, which is not correct.

Yes, I meant the pump strainer. When you clean the basket in the pump strainer, you will inevitably capture some air. This air stays trapped in the top of the strainer, and when the pump it running it can look like it is big bubbles being sucked in, but it is really just a trapped pocket of air. This pocket of air will eventually mix into the turbulent flow of water in the strainer and move along.

My pump only runs 8 hours a day. So if I am going to vacuum during a time it is off, I turn it on first. I assume since yours runs 24/7 it is a two speed or variable speed pump. I find it easier to place the vac plate in with the pump running. Of course, I have a deck around part of my pool, so I have to walk about 80 - 100' in total, each way to get from my skimmer to my pump switch. So I make sure my pump is on first, so that way I know the plate and hose are where they need to be.

You could try attaching the plate with your pump running on low, and then when it is set up, move it to whatever speed you vacuum at.

I suggest attaching the vac hose to the plate first, then put the plate on the skimmer.

Remove the weir door, set up your vac including purging the hose, feed the end of the hose through the skimmer face and out of the top of the skimmer itself, attach the hose to the vac plate, and then put the plate in the skimmer over the basket.

Does your plate have a 90 degree elbow on it?

 

[raysaint]

Thanks for the "big bubbles in pump" explanation. Bubbles are gone, pump is purring.
haven't tried to vac again, bottom of pool looks pretty clean still, but should I vac regularly or just when I see a few leaves or maple seeds in it? Can just a couple leaves start an algae process? My pump/filter runs 24/7.
Also, this weir door, sometimes with swimming (water moving towards the skimmer a bit more) the door falls off. I got out of the pool, 5 minutes later I heard a gushing sound, and weir door had come off. What if I hadn't noticed? Should I try to get a better one?

 

[Mdragger88]

Just Vac when you think it needs it. It’s easy to be ocd at 1st but most people only manually vac once a week unless there’s an adverse event.
I run my robot daily because it’s easy & I am a little ocd
As for the weir door, it may have a defect, but not sure if any other kind will fit. Start with a factory replacement.

 

[phonedave]

Thanks for the "big bubbles in pump" explanation. Bubbles are gone, pump is purring.
haven't tried to vac again, bottom of pool looks pretty clean still, but should I vac regularly or just when I see a few leaves or maple seeds in it? Can just a couple leaves start an algae process? My pump/filter runs 24/7.
Also, this weir door, sometimes with swimming (water moving towards the skimmer a bit more) the door falls off. I got out of the pool, 5 minutes later I heard a gushing sound, and weir door had come off. What if I hadn't noticed? Should I try to get a better one?

Leaves are going to consumer chlorine - just like any organic item. As long as your FC is good, then algae is not going to start. Now if you have a 8" layer of leaves on the bottom of the pool where water cannot circulate, well that is a different story. That is actually one of the keys of keeping your pool clean. Free chlorine is not enough, it has to be free chlorine that gets everywhere - by water circulation and brushing / vacuuming. I would say I vacuum every 10 days or so in the middle of summer, and more frequently when we get into late Aug, when some leaves start falling.

Weir doors, are in a word, garbage. They are all plastic, with little pins that hold them in place. The whole spring mechanism for the pins consists of two slots in the door. The plastic sits out in the sun, in a chlorinated environment, and is subjects to constant movement - they fail all of the time. I don't know if you are going to find a better one, but you should get a new one (and then replace it in 5 years). They last longer than a winter cover or a solar cover, but not much more.

 

[raysaint]

I swam around the whole pool with goggles on, looking at the bottom, and only saw maybe 3 leaves and a couple seed things. So if that's all, should I still be vacuuming every 10 days? Is there unseen stuff I need to vacuum, or is my pool abnormally clean? I get more leaves in the skimmer basket, a few every time I clean the basket. So maybe I'm lucky the leaves don't sink that fast.

 

[phonedave]

I swam around the whole pool with goggles on, looking at the bottom, and only saw maybe 3 leaves and a couple seed things. So if that's all, should I still be vacuuming every 10 days? Is there unseen stuff I need to vacuum, or is my pool abnormally clean? I get more leaves in the skimmer basket, a few every time I clean the basket. So maybe I'm lucky the leaves don't sink that fast.

How often you need to vacuum depends on a lot of factors - what gets into your pool (leaves, pollen, dust, dirt, bugs, seed pods, bird Crud, frogs, etc), how much your pump & filter runs, how your returns, drains, and skimmers are oriented, and how often your pool gets a good mixing (from swimmers).

I tend to get quite of bit of fine pollen and dirt in my pool that sinks quickly to the bottom, and therefore does not get caught in my skimmer, so I have to vacuum. Your pool is likely different. If it remains clean without appreciable debris, then by all means you can extend the time between vacuuming.

You may also just want to use a pool leaf rake to just get them off of the bottom.

 

[raysaint]

I tested my TA for the first time since pool was filled. Pool store test was 93 (4 weeks ago), now it's 100-110. I put that in pool math, with a target of 80, and it said to add nothing (no baking soda). Underneath it said bring ph down, then raise ph back up on its own? Did I read that right? Should I do anything?
And if ph needed to go back up, what to add? I'm confused about baking soda, soda ash etc. and what to use them for.

 

[Britali]

pH usually rises on it’s own and you will need to use MA to bring it down. When you use MA it will bring down TA also a little at a time. So basically, you do not want to just lower TA to “ideal” amount because it could crash your pH.

Just monitor your pH, let it rise naturally and use MA when you need to bring pH down. The TA will go down slowly too so don’t sweat the TA…pH is more important.

If your pH ever gets too low, you use aeration to speed up pH rise, that will not raise TA. To aerate use a hose or fountain…anything that splashes into water so that it introduces air into the water.

 

[Britali]

I'm confused about baking soda, soda ash etc. and what to use them for.

Lol I got a big bag of baking soda & a box of 20 mule team borax when I started couple months ago because I read about “the 3 B’s” to make sure I was ready for my pool. I have not needed to use them at all lmao . The only things I have needed have been muriatic acid & liquid chlorine occasionally (mostly when I was trying to find my SWG sweet spot).

 

[Mdragger88]

I tested my TA for the first time since pool was filled. Pool store test was 93 (4 weeks ago), now it's 100-110. I put that in pool math, with a target of 80, and it said to add nothing (no baking soda). Underneath it said bring ph down, then raise ph back up on its own? Did I read that right? Should I do anything?
And if ph needed to go back up, what to add? I'm confused about baking soda, soda ash etc. and what to use them for.

It told u that because that’s how u lower TA -
Lower ph to 7.2 w/ acid (it will lower ta also) then aerate to increase ph without increasing ta so u can repeat the process if necessary.
No need to do it unless u want to or are having ph rise issues. Just lowering ph normally will lower ta overtime

 

[raysaint]

It told u that because that’s how u lower TA -
Lower ph to 7.2 w/ acid (it will lower ta also) then aerate to increase ph without increasing ta so u can repeat the process if necessary.
No need to do it unless u want to or are having ph rise issues. Just lowering ph normally will lower ta overtime

So to raise ph on its own, aeration is the only way? I can't add something to raise just ph?
I've added muriatic a couple times, to keep ph at 7.6-7.8.
And the 3 B's, can you explain what they are used for.

 

[phonedave]

I tested my TA for the first time since pool was filled. Pool store test was 93 (4 weeks ago), now it's 100-110. I put that in pool math, with a target of 80, and it said to add nothing (no baking soda). Underneath it said bring ph down, then raise ph back up on its own? Did I read that right? Should I do anything?
And if ph needed to go back up, what to add? I'm confused about baking soda, soda ash etc. and what to use them for.

Muriatic Acid - Lowers pH AND Lowers TA
Dry Acid - Lowers pH AND Lowers TA
Aerating your water - Raises pH
Borax - Raises pH AND Raises TA (and adds Borates)
Soda Ash - Raises pH AND Raises TA
Baking Soda - Raises TA

If you notice, there is nothing that JUST lowers TA or JUST lowers pH. Baking Soda will raise TA without impacting pH, and aerating will raise pH without impacting TA

So if you want to JUST lower TA, or JUST lower pH, then you have to do the pH/TA dance that was described by others.