Day 4 was trying, but the outcome was good. I'll write up a report tomorrow morning, as today was exhausting. Half day tomorrow to finish up.
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Fiberglass Pool Install
- Thread starter robertwest
- Start date
Day 4 report (Thursday):
Thursday's objective was to get backfill and water in. Plumbing was installed (incorrectly again), fixed, and was pressure tested all day. We did flowable fill in under the bench area and the larger #57 rock created a very solid fill.
I will say that I ended up taking the whole week off from work to add another set of eyes on the install. The consultant sometimes missed things and it was darned good that I was here to catch it. As per installation instructions and best practices, they filled the base area just past the shoulder with gravel. Water came in and then the concurrent filling began.
They over-filled with gravel in the largest void and pushed the pool wall in too far and we had to stop and dig it back out until the wall straightened. I couldn’t imagine leaving a crew to do this on their own. The consultant and I line-checked the straightness on all four sides throughout.
Once the gravel reached a few inches below the main pool-length bench, the water was paused and we waited for the flowable fill (which was late). To support the bench area, two braces were set up (picture below with red circles).
The plumbing once again got glued in "up" (from the main drains) to a horizontal pipe with a “T” connection in the middle (for balanced draw on the main drains), but the “T” then went "down" and connected to the line running to the pad. It created the same “P-trap” effect that we had before (only larger). So the consultant had them cut it out, lower the rise, and run the “T” horizontally to the main pipe. This way we’re not pushing water up a vertical rise while winterizing (the pipes are not below our freeze line in MD, so this was critical).
The plan was to bring the flowable fill up under the bench and then stop below the fittings and pipes. All of that went well.
At this point, I’m not sure why they didn’t wait for the flowable fill to set up some before back-filling the other sides of the pool, but I guess the water guy didn’t want to have to come back. So they filled the pool and the gravel on the remaining three sides (non-bench side). Fortunately, the wooden braces did their thing and the remaining void could be back-filled on Day 5 (Friday).
Thursday's objective was to get backfill and water in. Plumbing was installed (incorrectly again), fixed, and was pressure tested all day. We did flowable fill in under the bench area and the larger #57 rock created a very solid fill.
I will say that I ended up taking the whole week off from work to add another set of eyes on the install. The consultant sometimes missed things and it was darned good that I was here to catch it. As per installation instructions and best practices, they filled the base area just past the shoulder with gravel. Water came in and then the concurrent filling began.
They over-filled with gravel in the largest void and pushed the pool wall in too far and we had to stop and dig it back out until the wall straightened. I couldn’t imagine leaving a crew to do this on their own. The consultant and I line-checked the straightness on all four sides throughout.
Once the gravel reached a few inches below the main pool-length bench, the water was paused and we waited for the flowable fill (which was late). To support the bench area, two braces were set up (picture below with red circles).
The plumbing once again got glued in "up" (from the main drains) to a horizontal pipe with a “T” connection in the middle (for balanced draw on the main drains), but the “T” then went "down" and connected to the line running to the pad. It created the same “P-trap” effect that we had before (only larger). So the consultant had them cut it out, lower the rise, and run the “T” horizontally to the main pipe. This way we’re not pushing water up a vertical rise while winterizing (the pipes are not below our freeze line in MD, so this was critical).
The plan was to bring the flowable fill up under the bench and then stop below the fittings and pipes. All of that went well.
At this point, I’m not sure why they didn’t wait for the flowable fill to set up some before back-filling the other sides of the pool, but I guess the water guy didn’t want to have to come back. So they filled the pool and the gravel on the remaining three sides (non-bench side). Fortunately, the wooden braces did their thing and the remaining void could be back-filled on Day 5 (Friday).
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The end result of a straight and level pool with proper backfill and plumbing is the the important thing at this point. As a future reference issue I would never approve of the burying of any type of wood. Simply put, at some point that wood will rot and create a void. Probably not a big issue in this situation but they could have simply scheduled things accordingly and waited the 2 hrs as Jimmy recommended for the flow fill to set up or used cross bracing to the other side. I am surprised not to see any cross bracing in place.
I hope the 'guy working on your pool' (using the term 'pool builder' would be a insult to a professional pool builder) is paying for the flow fill, New water and all of the required stone for back backfill. This would definitely be his responsibility.
I hope the 'guy working on your pool' (using the term 'pool builder' would be a insult to a professional pool builder) is paying for the flow fill, New water and all of the required stone for back backfill. This would definitely be his responsibility.
Day 5 was to be a partial day to fill the area above the flowable fill (removing the wood braces), set the concrete collar, pour the equipment pad, and wrap up.
The only screw up today was the concrete collar. We asked them to slope it AWAY from the pool and they managed to do that on three sides, but the long edge closest to the house, they sloped it TOWARD the pool. So close, yet so far. This required scraping and all sorts of angst on the site.
Because they pour cheap collars (and don't vibrate them), when the form was set for a proper 6” thickness at the outer edge and 8” thickness against the pool, it required more concrete and they ran out with nine linear feet to go. Our consultant made sure it was well-vibrated so the concrete got up under the pool lip (which creates the strong “locking” effect). The consultant actually did the concrete finish work (until they ran out).
Our consultant had to leave, so I had to see the last of it through. The cement truck came back, they poured the last of it, the truck washed down and took off. I watch as the crew slopped it around and wanted to call it a day, but I noticed that they didn’t vibrate it (and there was a high step in that corner that needed to be filled underneath). So I put on my supervisor hat on and said, “Hey, aren’t you supposed to vibrate that area too?” I got the eye-roll but the tool was right behind the guy so he reached for it and started vibrating the mix. Sure as cow manure, the concrete started to move under step and lip areas. This caused it to sink and they needed more concrete to bring the level up, but the truck was gone.
SMH.
Fortunately, there were a lot of over-pour blobs around the form that they were able to scrape off the ground to get a tad more in there. It’s still lower than the other areas, but we’ll have the mason mud that area up a little.
While they were doing the collar, a young worker was using a cinder block to tamp the equipment pad base - they forgot to bring their compactor. It was scary watching him do this around the plumbing coming out of the ground! I went and got my hand-tamper to minimize the risk he would crush a pipe. This was the same kid that didn't know how to use a rake (tines down). Again, the consultant made sure the pad was large enough to stand on (makes working on it easier), wrapped the pipes with foam, and encapsulated them in the concrete too.
When Friday ended, I was confident that the pool had been re-installed correctly and that made me happy. Period. The consultant’s fees were $7,000 to oversee the project, well over the $3,600 I had budgeted. The engineer was $375, and I don't have the legal review bill yet. The re-install took five days instead of three due to the many delays written up previously. The financial pain will subside in time as we move on to finally having a pool and being able to use it this summer. I could never imagine doing this w/o full-on supervision (and then some). I know there are probably builders on this forum that do it right, but it was super-clear to me that there is a culture of corner-cutting (mixed with some laziness and incompetence) in some pool companies. God help all the people out there that are trying this.
As a final note, I am not going to name the installer. We had a problem, and while it was a protracted fight, they ultimately did the right thing and fixed their work by removing the pool and re-installing it properly. I too own a business and believe the asymmetric customer:business warfare that is waged in social media can be unfair when companies aren’t given the chance to fix their mistakes. If anyone here wants a Leisure Pool, I recommend you call the Knoxville headquarters first and get their recommendations. You will always have an advocate with the corporation, as they want to protect their brand. You just have to be fair about it. Leisure Pools USA were great with our issues and helped move the installer along to correct it.
With that, thanks to everyone on here that offered moral and technical support – you all know who you are.
The only screw up today was the concrete collar. We asked them to slope it AWAY from the pool and they managed to do that on three sides, but the long edge closest to the house, they sloped it TOWARD the pool. So close, yet so far. This required scraping and all sorts of angst on the site.
Because they pour cheap collars (and don't vibrate them), when the form was set for a proper 6” thickness at the outer edge and 8” thickness against the pool, it required more concrete and they ran out with nine linear feet to go. Our consultant made sure it was well-vibrated so the concrete got up under the pool lip (which creates the strong “locking” effect). The consultant actually did the concrete finish work (until they ran out).
Our consultant had to leave, so I had to see the last of it through. The cement truck came back, they poured the last of it, the truck washed down and took off. I watch as the crew slopped it around and wanted to call it a day, but I noticed that they didn’t vibrate it (and there was a high step in that corner that needed to be filled underneath). So I put on my supervisor hat on and said, “Hey, aren’t you supposed to vibrate that area too?” I got the eye-roll but the tool was right behind the guy so he reached for it and started vibrating the mix. Sure as cow manure, the concrete started to move under step and lip areas. This caused it to sink and they needed more concrete to bring the level up, but the truck was gone.
SMH.
Fortunately, there were a lot of over-pour blobs around the form that they were able to scrape off the ground to get a tad more in there. It’s still lower than the other areas, but we’ll have the mason mud that area up a little.
While they were doing the collar, a young worker was using a cinder block to tamp the equipment pad base - they forgot to bring their compactor. It was scary watching him do this around the plumbing coming out of the ground! I went and got my hand-tamper to minimize the risk he would crush a pipe. This was the same kid that didn't know how to use a rake (tines down). Again, the consultant made sure the pad was large enough to stand on (makes working on it easier), wrapped the pipes with foam, and encapsulated them in the concrete too.
When Friday ended, I was confident that the pool had been re-installed correctly and that made me happy. Period. The consultant’s fees were $7,000 to oversee the project, well over the $3,600 I had budgeted. The engineer was $375, and I don't have the legal review bill yet. The re-install took five days instead of three due to the many delays written up previously. The financial pain will subside in time as we move on to finally having a pool and being able to use it this summer. I could never imagine doing this w/o full-on supervision (and then some). I know there are probably builders on this forum that do it right, but it was super-clear to me that there is a culture of corner-cutting (mixed with some laziness and incompetence) in some pool companies. God help all the people out there that are trying this.
As a final note, I am not going to name the installer. We had a problem, and while it was a protracted fight, they ultimately did the right thing and fixed their work by removing the pool and re-installing it properly. I too own a business and believe the asymmetric customer:business warfare that is waged in social media can be unfair when companies aren’t given the chance to fix their mistakes. If anyone here wants a Leisure Pool, I recommend you call the Knoxville headquarters first and get their recommendations. You will always have an advocate with the corporation, as they want to protect their brand. You just have to be fair about it. Leisure Pools USA were great with our issues and helped move the installer along to correct it.
With that, thanks to everyone on here that offered moral and technical support – you all know who you are.
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Rich, The braces were removed the next day, so there's no wood buried in there anywhere. As for lateral braces, I can see how you would think that - it makes sense. But what happened when they put them in was it created a pressure toward the water side and it held really well. If you read my final post, they left the flowable fill overnight, so well past the 2hr minimum.
Trust me, I was on this as hard as the consultant was - nothing got by unless we both agreed on it. But thanks for your input!
Oh, and yes, the builder paid for all materials (though I offered to cover some gravel cost).
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mguzzy
Gold Supporter
Well done. and thanks for sharing a beer at the end... a poignant image and deserved reward!
Glad its squared away. The consultant made out great. I charge as much but actually work on the job too. In the end you got a quality install much better than most. People dont realize what happens thru a build amd the corners cut they just see it done and looks good. You got a front row seat to the aggravation of the jnstall
Apsuhead
Bronze Supporter
- Apr 27, 2020
- 505
- Pool Size
- 19250
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
Glad you got straightened out in the end. Hopefully you will get to enjoy it a lot this summer. ??
afliime
0
- Nov 30, 2019
- 873
- Pool Size
- 8500
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I think the builder should be named. You may be all right with the effort that it took you personally to get the job done right and the huge extra expenses but a lot of us wouldn't be. I give them no credit for eventually 'doing the right thing'. How could anyone interviewing builders be be OK with loading that contractor into that gun for a game of PB russian roulette.
I like how the pool came out but I would never have encased those pipes in the concrete pad.
I like how the pool came out but I would never have encased those pipes in the concrete pad.
I know this board goes back and forth about that, but the pipes have 1/2 inch foam wrapped around them between the pipe and concrete. The PB wouldn't do it unless they were foam-wrapped.
I never said I was okay with the drama, tear-out, or added expense to us. Leisure Pools USA can make the determination about their recommended installers. I already suggested and I will urge anyone starting a pool to go through the shell manufacturer as a starting point. Ask if they have had any issues - all the usual due diligence. I should have done that in the first place than to go with a referral from a client.
Not to rehash an old thread, but this was fantastic research material! As we are in the permitting phase of our FG pool build, this gave me a LOT of information to use during our install. As a former Morris County native (Rockaway - White Meadow Lake), I'd be hard pressed NOT to inundate @jimmythegreek with interim build questions.
Fantastic write-up @robertwest , albeit it took your misery to create a strong lesson(s) learned story. Thank you for your sacrifices
Fantastic write-up @robertwest , albeit it took your misery to create a strong lesson(s) learned story. Thank you for your sacrifices
Just wanted to revisit with a winter picture...
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,988
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Wow, what a great image. It's Polar Bear Swim time!! Come on, we dare you. Now THAT photo would be epic!! 
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Do it! Do it! Do It!Wow, what a great image. It's polar bear time!! Come on, we dare you. Now THAT photo would be epic!!
Not sure I understand what's happening here. I assume this pool is used through out the winter too. Can you please explain to your east coast neighbors how's this been done. How's the water being heated ? automatic cover as it doesn't look like? How's the equipment pad protected and all the rest that makes that picture beautiful. Need to say thanks in advance for this one. Have a client begging for this sort of idea but didn't see it possible.
Apsuhead
Bronze Supporter
- Apr 27, 2020
- 505
- Pool Size
- 19250
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
When I first glanced at the picture, I thought your concrete wasn’t very level ... then I realized it was covered in snow. We are getting some very cold weather in TN this weekend with possible snow. I will have to get a pic of my pool light on under the ice too. 
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,988
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Ha, I didn't know what I was looking at either. But I don't think that's ice. Or it, too, would be covered in snow.
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