Considering Salt - Have questions

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
More great progress! Salt pools are fantastic. I was worried my wife wouldn't like it so I did salt conversion before I installed the swg. After her first 30 seconds I got "the new rule". Never go back we will have a salt pool from now on!

Seems very likely you pass tomorrow in the morning. How much liquid chlorine do you still have?

Chris
4 gallons and the left over of the two probably make a half gallon. I'd have to go back and check, but I still have 4 cases at the supply house that have my name on them until this is cleared and I tell them I need them or don't. They're 5 mins from the house.
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
3,720
NY
Given the desperate need to keep the pool running healthily, the cost of reagent / testing etc is nothing to me. My wife needs the pool to get better, and after all she's been through - the smile on her face in it pays for all the trouble this 35k hole in the ground will ever throw at me.
In good times, investing $100 to maintain your $100k investment is an absolute no brainer. As it is now, your pool is the icing on the revovery cake. Count me in as another well wisher, there can never be too many. :)
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Alright,

Good morning everyone

8:45AM Test:

FC: 23.5
CC: 0
Filter Pressure: same as clean startup

It looks like I passed as hoped the OCLT. I will allow it to drift down today, monitoring to keep it from hitting too low, then at 3AM begin 12hr at 100% production and see where we are tomorrow.
Now, with the sun loss seen yesterday (I can test more today to be sure), is 100% at 12 hours going to be enough to keep ~6FC? (I plan to raise my CYA to 80 today unless someone here says this pass is also not countable)


Happy 4th of July Weekend everyone!
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
3,720
NY
I will allow it to drift down today, monitoring to keep it from hitting too low, then at 3AM begin 12hr at 100% production and see where we are tomorrow.
Once it’s in the 20s it will burn off faster than the normal 2-4ppm per day, but once it’s in the teens it should behave closer to normal. You should still be plenty high for a few days and not need to start the schedule yet

once you do run the normal schedule it still needs to be tweaked throughout the season. We are now into the highest demand phase for all of us. Your pool being far south of mine will demand even more. Once September hits and things start to cool down you will be on the back side of the ‘Bell curve’ and can adjust the runtimes down to match.

For now, starting with 12 hours and adjusting from there is a great plan.
 
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setsailsoon

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
3,152
Stuart/FL
Lively,

Great! Definitely get the CYA up asap. Are you using granules or liquid? If granules squeeze the sock a couple times each day. Even with that it will take 2 days. Newdude is correct that your FC loss is increased with higher levels. If it were me with still some lingering question about your cell I would stabilize with liquid chlorine at a level well above target say FC 10-12. Then once you know how much daytime demand you have you can run it to produce that amount. I suspect your cell is fine since you had one night where it looks like it produced exactly the right amount. But if for some reason it is not working you won't drop too low. I'm suggesting this because I know it's critical for your wife to have access to the pool.

So glad things are looking up!

Chris
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Lively,

Great! Definitely get the CYA up asap. Are you using granules or liquid? If granules squeeze the sock a couple times each day. Even with that it will take 2 days. Newdude is correct that your FC loss is increased with higher levels. If it were me with still some lingering question about your cell I would stabilize with liquid chlorine at a level well above target say FC 10-12. Then once you know how much daytime demand you have you can run it to produce that amount. I suspect your cell is fine since you had one night where it looks like it produced exactly the right amount. But if for some reason it is not working you won't drop too low. I'm suggesting this because I know it's critical for your wife to have access to the pool.

So glad things are looking up!

Chris
Chris, this was running through my head as well. Previously I used trichlor to raise cya, so I have to go buy some. I'm going to get the liquid to make it easier.

I'm going to allow drift to 12FC, while allowing pump run time to be 12hrs and will cut on the SWG at ~12. If I drift back up, adjust slowly until I find stability at the 6-8 mark.

This will help allow for rain compensation etc. At least that's my theory.

I think the cell is fine too, who knows what was eating the chlorine, but it is obvious I didn't have enough, granted the water was clear. Not as soft, but clear as shown before.

It's beyond my understanding, but at least now I have a good starting point reference and can keep updating here to gain the knowledge to stabilize. Like my reef tank, stability is key, which is why I went with SWG also, nothing like less swings to aid stability.

Thanks to everyone again so far, here's to the next critical few days.
 
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LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Today:

12 Hours of 100% RJ60+

FC: 9
CC: 0
CYA: 80

Im wondering if it will level out or keep dropping. loss of 3 with the 12 hour addition. the day before I lost 4 with not having ran the addition.

Lets see what tomorrow brings. Though we may get some rain tonight. I have liquid chlorine available and it's looking like I may need to use it tomorrow and call CircuPool back.

My uneducated guess - is that the cell has two cycles, one + and one - and it cycles between them every so many hours. Im wondering if my cell is only outputting when its in + or - and not the other meaning half cell actually working correctly.
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,039
OV, CA
My uneducated guess - is that the cell has two cycles, one + and one - and it cycles between them every so many hours. Im wondering if my cell is only outputting when its in + or - and not the other meaning half cell actually working correctly.
You can make more educated guess by actually sampling it. Collect water from your returns when you think the cell is cycling +/-/off and measure the FC. It's should be higher than the pool if its generating.
 
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setsailsoon

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
3,152
Stuart/FL
Lively,

You're losing me with the different reporting at different times and sometimes "adding liquid bleach" with no times. Can you please post the readings in sequence with time, FC reading, amount of liquid added? What was the FC before you started running the swg? And was it running during the day or not? The swg should generate 5.3 ppm in 12 hrs. Are you saying it dropped 3 points during the day with the swg running. That's a consumption of 8.3 ppm? I would run it tonight and see what it makes without the complication of sun loss. If for some reason you don't run it tonight would be good to do another OCLT just to confirm you still have no algae. This should help with your warranty discussion.

How many amps are you showing and what is the voltage during + and - phases

Chris
 

Saturn94

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2015
942
SE Virginia
Today:

12 Hours of 100% RJ60+

FC: 9
CC: 0
CYA: 80

Im wondering if it will level out or keep dropping. loss of 3 with the 12 hour addition. the day before I lost 4 with not having ran the addition.

Lets see what tomorrow brings. Though we may get some rain tonight. I have liquid chlorine available and it's looking like I may need to use it tomorrow and call CircuPool back.

My uneducated guess - is that the cell has two cycles, one + and one - and it cycles between them every so many hours. Im wondering if my cell is only outputting when its in + or - and not the other meaning half cell actually working correctly.
According to the Pool Math app, 12hrs at 100% should have added 5.3ppm FC to your pool. That should be more than enough to maintain FC. Like you, I suspect your SWCG isn’t functioning properly.
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Lively,

You're losing me with the different reporting at different times and sometimes "adding liquid bleach" with no times. Can you please post the readings in sequence with time, FC reading, amount of liquid added? What was the FC before you started running the swg? And was it running during the day or not? The swg should generate 5.3 ppm in 12 hrs. Are you saying it dropped 3 points during the day with the swg running. That's a consumption of 8.3 ppm? I would run it tonight and see what it makes without the complication of sun loss. If for some reason you don't run it tonight would be good to do another OCLT just to confirm you still have no algae. This should help with your warranty discussion.

How many amps are you showing and what is the voltage during + and - phases

Chris

Chris, I have done my best to post the times and what was added.

To recap:
NO ADDATIONAL Chlorine until yesterday was added since the last reported liquid Pre-OCLT.

Yesterday 7:45PM

FC: 16
CC: 0
Added Liquid CYA to bring to 80


@ 1:15PM Test:
FC: 12
CC: 0
Turned on SWG at 100%. Pumps will remain on until 3:00 PM

So from 1:15PM yestderday until 3:00PM yesterday I had 100% SWG production.

I then went to the 3:00AM to 3:00PM previously agreed upon for Pump and SWG. 100% production power.

At 6:15PM today after the 12 hour cycle and pumps off from 3PM,

FC: 9
CC: 0
CYA: 80

I was unable to get to the pool to test from 3PM until 6:15.

Tomorrow I will try to catch both + / - phases for amps and document. I wish the device had a serial port for digital logging of some sort.
 

setsailsoon

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
3,152
Stuart/FL
Lively,

Thanks and sorry. I know you have other things on your plate right now. So the way I look at this is from 1:15 amp to 3 pm today you added 6.6 ppm FC if your swg was working right. You also went from 12 to about 9. So that's about 9.6 ppm total FC lost. Very high loss. But if your swg is not producing anything the loss is about normal Only last thing to check is test for CYA. Just to check to confirm there was no CYA addition error. If your CYA is 80 it sounds like you need to call Circupool CS.

Almost all swg's cycle + and - to reduce build up on the cell. They also have a rest period. You should read about the same amps in + and - mode. The cycle time for your unit is 180 minutes. Here's a little more information on the swg operation.

Please keep us posted on the progress. So sorry you're having to deal with all this.

Chris
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
No need to be sorry, I try to be as detailed as possible and planned. The original agreement was at 12PPM to turn on the SWG. I hit 12PPM yesterday at 1:15PM. So I flipped the switch for the SWG to on. This turned the SWG on at 100% from 1:15 to 3:00 PM. So not long, ultimately on July 4th I added 1 hour 45 mins of Chlorine from the SWG (allegidly).

Then at 3AM my schedule turned on, Pump on - SWG on at 100%. They stayed on until 3PM - 12 Hours. So SWG was at 100% for 12 hours. From this point, My pool is now at 9 PPM FC.

My pool is in the sunlight almost all day, very little time is it unexposed.

I did test the CYA today and it was just over the 80 line on the cylinder so 80-85 to be safe.

I did not run a full gambit (all tests) because I can not remember at what FC etc all tests are valid, If I recall, PH is un-testable during a SLAM and can not recall at what level of FC it becomes reliable again. I can re-run all tests tomorrow if it will help.

I am 100% sure there is NO algae in the pool at this time, and can affirmatively rule out any algae bloom. The only things that seem to be factors at this point are:

SWG (Possible, either not producing all the time or not producing at all)
Sunlight (Possible, direct exposure to the point my pool hit 93-94 temps today, is eating chlorine faster than even the RJ60+ can produce)
 
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LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Ok,

10 AM Test
SWG in Negative Cycle every time I have looked this morning

FC: 11
CC: 0
Cell Volts: 21.4V
Water Temp: 90.6F
Cell Amps: -5.97A

When I spoke to CircuPool before SLAM - The unit was in Negative cycle also and honestly, I don't think I have caught it in Positive Cycle as far as I can recall.

3AM - 10AM - 7 Hours at 100% should have produced more than 2 PPM Chlorine though, in the night with no sun.
 

Newdude

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2019
3,720
NY
I did test the CYA today and it was just over the 80 line on the cylinder so 80-85 to be safe
Round up no matter what. 81= 90, 91 equals 100.

If I recall, PH is un-testable during a SLAM and can not recall at what level of FC it becomes reliable again
The PH becomes invalid at 10 Ppm FC. Set it before the slam and it should be good enough through the slam when you can’t test it reliably.
 

setsailsoon

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Oct 25, 2015
3,152
Stuart/FL
Ok,

10 AM Test
SWG in Negative Cycle every time I have looked this morning

FC: 11
CC: 0
Cell Volts: 21.4V
Water Temp: 90.6F
Cell Amps: -5.97A

When I spoke to CircuPool before SLAM - The unit was in Negative cycle also and honestly, I don't think I have caught it in Positive Cycle as far as I can recall.

3AM - 10AM - 7 Hours at 100% should have produced more than 2 PPM Chlorine though, in the night with no sun.
Definitely. Your amperage and cell voltage look about right. I think the cell is bad. Could be a problem with the coating.

Chris