Considering Salt - Have questions

setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
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Stuart/FL
An OCLT requires no chlorine added. So you really don't know your OCLT reading unless you ran with the swg off last night. TFP methods work well because there's no guessing. When we try to guess it usually doesn't work out well. Now that you have the liquid chlorine you have more flexibility do really do this according to the procedure.

I just read your post about contacting Circupool. Pool Math is in agreement for what it's worth. Remember my previous post that said 12 hrs at 100% is 5.3 ppm. Pool Math indicates 12 hr at 75% is 4 ppm added. This is right in line with maximum typical pool FC requirement and it can even go a little higher than that in extreme cases.

Pool pump run times are not based on turnover. It's a long debunked myth still used by some "so-called experts" to size pumps and estimate run times. You run long enough to get the required chlorination and beyond that to clean the surface and bottom of the pool. Often this is way less than one turnover and sometimes way more is needed; so turnover is just not the right approach.

I would follow Circupool's recommendation since if you need a replacement continuing to work with them will shorten the process. If they end up replacing it you may be able to do so quickly since I think their main office is near Intercontinental Airport... close to you I think. If not replaced we can continue with liquid chlorine and eradicate whatever is consuming your FC with a SLAM. Then follow up with a real OCLT. While this is going on your pool should be safe to use. Please see the SLAM video below and the OCLT procedure hereOvernight Chlorine Loss Test when needed.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Chris,

I aborted the OCLT when I found the FC to be way less than expected. This told me I was still using chlorine - and to continue adding it.

I am headed to pick up a ton of the liquid 12% chlorine (4gal at $16) I will grab 16 Gal for now. I know that phosphates are not worried about here, but I know I have plenty in the pool and since Circupool wants it at zero, until I get this in line, I am going to do a one time Phos remover treatment also unless highly objected here.

I Aiming for 31 PPM for SLAM - You said it would be safe to use the pool? I don't fully understand that - but you're more experienced than I.

One question, should I shut down the SWG for this?
 

setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
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Chris,

I aborted the OCLT when I found the FC to be way less than expected. This told me I was still using chlorine - and to continue adding it.

I am headed to pick up a ton of the liquid 12% chlorine (4gal at $16) I will grab 16 Gal for now. I know that phosphates are not worried about here, but I know I have plenty in the pool and since Circupool wants it at zero, until I get this in line, I am going to do a one time Phos remover treatment also unless highly objected here.

I Aiming for 31 PPM for SLAM - You said it would be safe to use the pool? I don't fully understand that - but you're more experienced than I.

One question, should I shut down the SWG for this?
Yep, makes sense. Circupool always requires you get phosphates to zero. It's kind of their way to validate a couple of different ways that algae is not making production of FC. I don't blame them otherwise they'd be replacing a lot of swg unnecessarily that would run the costs up for customers also. If it were my company I'd just tell customers to SLAM and then test output after they pass. But they didn't ask me.

Good move on the liquid chlorine. TFP uses procedures based on real science and I've used their recommendations for years. I've never been disappointed. The experts advise that FC levels between target and SLAM for your CYA level are safe. So I go with that and it has always worked for me.

Yes, we recommend you switch off your swg. This is to ensure there's no confusion about where the FC is coming from or how much is being consumed. As you are seeing TFP methods use a very quantitative and logical approach. So we can't guess how much chlorine was added by the chlorinator to determine how much was consumed by algae. Guessing never works out.

I know you've had a lot on your plate with your wife's health issues and the pool. I hope this all works out for you and your pool can be there to assist in your wife's recovery asap. TFP people will do whatever we can to help.

Good luck with this approach and please do continue to ask any questions you have plus keep us posted on your progress.

Chris
 
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mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
2,390
OV, CA
I would shut off your SWG during a SLAM.. that way there is only one source of chlorine.. whatever you dump in via a jug. It makes it easier to track the Cl demand as a result.
 
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LivelyOasis

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Ok, Here is what I did:

1:30PM - Phosphate Removal and Brushed Pool wall and floor
2:00PM - Backwashed and Rinsed DE Carts - Added new DE Powder, cleaned both skimmers, set two venturi returns to blow downward, and two to rotate pool clockwise. Topped off pool.
2:30PM - Tested PH 8.2 - Added MA 79oz (2q 1c 7oz) to bring to 7.3 for SLAM
5:30PM - Turned off SWG - Set Pentair to Service - Pump Running 24/7 / Pool Mode
6:00PM - Tested full gambit:
Results:
FC: 2
CC: .5
TC: 2.5
PH: 7.4
ALK: 90
CH: 500
CYA: 60
Salinity: 3600

Now I am going to add 6 gallons + 2qts of 12% Chlorine to bring to Slam Level of 24 and will test hourly until 11PM. Raising FC to SLAM and recording losses. I will then sleep until 8AM and begin my testing hourly until loss is minimal, then back down to 2-3 hours as needed keeping SLAM level at. Hopefully I can fully SLAM in a couple days, I have 16 Gallons of 12% and can get more if needed since they are close by and have sat another 16 gallons in the back reserved for me if needed - nice group of people.
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Im prepared to flush the filters as much as needed. I mentioned the phosphate before the SLAM earlier, Circupool wants the Phosphate at zero, no questions asked. So I had to oblige.

1 hour after adding 6G2Q 12%, I am at 14.5 FC / .5 CC (29 drops after DPD, ~1 drop after reagent.)
 

mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
2,390
OV, CA
I must have missed your mentioning the phosphate thing up thread. Yeah they do (want you to remove phosphates) .. it rules out a rare occurrence, but I have not seen where your had your phosphates measured in the thread.. did I miss it?
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
I must have missed your mentioning the phosphate thing up thread. Yeah they do (want you to remove phosphates) .. it rules out a rare occurrence, but I have not seen where your had your phosphates measured in the thread.. did I miss it?
Phosphates were not mentioned originally as the forum tends to lean towards 'dont care-keep FC right".

About two weeks before the rain it was over 1200. Then all the rain and everything else, I'm sure it was higher. But the 1200 made circupool mad and they want it removed. To be safe, I mentioned removing it, and Chris seemed to agree, so I did the phosphate treatment as a precaution, filter is still at starting pressure and I have a camera pointed at it until I figure out how to tie it to IFTTT automation somehow with a pressure sensor. I'll be up testing water until at least 1130 since I didn't begin slam until 6:30. Then back up at 8 to test at 830.
 

mguzzy

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Jul 8, 2015
2,390
OV, CA
Yeah, I get it. Usually phosphates have no bearing if you stay within the TFP protocol. But there is lots of anecdotal evidence that SWGs have issues with high phosphates. We haven't been able to nail down what is actually happening in those situations.. there are references to it scattered around the forum walls. AND the SWG manufactures want to see low phosphates for warranty conditions. My only concern is the precipitate that is created by the phosphate remover is going to affect your filters since it tends to gum things up. I don't think I would have done a SLAM and Phosphate treatment at the same time, if only to optimize your filtration during the SLAM. I get a lot of organic run off into my pool in the rainy season, so I treat with phosphate removers, but separately from the other treatments just because it affects my filtration enough. That said.. lets see how it goes!
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Worth a shot - monitoring closely.

Pressure in filter - same as startup currently. (I cleaned them last week, so todays backwash and rinse with new DE is basically like adding new filters, these carts are only 2 months old).

8:30PM test
FC: 20.5
CC: .5 still

(at 7:30 I added 2g 3q of 12%)

Now I added 1G and will test again at 9:30.
 

setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
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Stuart/FL
Lively,

Sounds like a good plan. Mguzzy, you're quiet right this is not the normal path forward. Phosphate removal is standard requirement of Circupool for warranty. Wouldn't make sense to do it unless he might need a warranty swg cell. So continue with phosphate removal then get on with the SLAM after your filter clears. Normally we would just get on with the SLAM to get whatever is removing the FC. But with Circupool already involved it makes sense to follow their direction to preserve a warranty claim.

Chris
 
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setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
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Stuart/FL
Lively,

Good progress, keep an eye on the filter pressure. Very likely you'll plug it more quickly with the phosphate removal products next cycle or two.

Chris
 
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LivelyOasis

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One thing I neglected to mention, Before I learned of TFP, when I did Phos removal, I always ran skimmer socks (1 micron) (I also do reef aquarium so I keep socks on hand).

I have been changing the socks every hour - which will help with filter (aside from whatever comes from the main drain. If I half thought about it, I would have turned the main drain off and only skimmed through the socks - but I wanted the circulation instead of skimming only. Typically I do 80% skimmer and 20% main drain. I am at 50/50 for SLAM. Wanted to add this, as its the only information other than the ppb of Phos I neglected to post until now.

The sock at 9:30 was heavier than any other time.

Filter pressure is 2 higher than clean start. So it is climbing, but not rapidly.
 

duraleigh

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Apr 1, 2007
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Filter pressure - 5 over startup.
Backwash when your psi is 25% greater than start up........sounds like you are there.

You had an overnight increase of 3 psi which indicates you are capturing something in your filter.
 
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