Considering Salt - Have questions

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
3 PM Test

Schedule just turned off and rain is just now sprinkling in.

FC: 12
CC: 0
Retested CYA: 80 is accurate.

SWG only shows - cycle every time I went out today, so looks like I have to watch it again tomorrow to catch the positive cycle. I am ok with 12FC today, but my theory is still that im only producing in negative cycle.
 
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setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
3,153
Stuart/FL
3 PM Test

Schedule just turned off and rain is just now sprinkling in.

FC: 12
CC: 0
Retested CYA: 80 is accurate.

SWG only shows - cycle every time I went out today, so looks like I have to watch it again tomorrow to catch the positive cycle. I am ok with 12FC today, but my theory is still that im only producing in negative cycle.
Good update, thanks. Chlorine destruction from the sun varies a lot so you really don't know how much the cell is producing. I would suggest you do a 12 hour test run at night with FC recorded before and after. If you're short on production with a brand new unit it's not going to get better with age and would be better to get Circupool working on it earlier than later. You might also confirm it's working well and just get some piece of mind.

Chris
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Ok, today I finally caught the unit in a non negative (reverse polarity) cycle.

The control unit shows "Generating" "100%"
Menu shows Volts: 0 Amps: 0

When I called CircuPool, I got a gentleman that was different than the other day, had to re-explain everything, EXCEPT, he wouldn't listen. I calmly explained the issue and answered his questions and he kept acting like the MAX output (100%) is voltage, and by not gettign any Volts on the menu, that it wasn't getting 220V power from the grid.

I honeslty explained this so many times and got interrupted so many times, that I finally just gave up. I am attempting to file a return/replacement through DiscountSaltPools -vendor I bought from just barely a month ago. If they refuse, I will mail it back, and file a chargebackk with my credit card.

If that happens, I am going with a Pentair IC60 and hoping for the best.

[EDIT]

I got so excited to finally find the problem, I forgot to take pictures before calling circupool..I went back out and captured these:

Its no longer showing zero, but going from 0.41 to 0.49 amps and 7.3V.
 

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setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
3,153
Stuart/FL
Lively,

Wow, so sorry to hear this. One thing, did the values stabilize at these levels? When mine starts I notice volts and amp are at zero. % power stays at whatever the setting is. Then volts and amperage increase over a short period of time (minutes not seconds). It ramps up to about 24 volts and 4.8 amps running at 40% power. I get almost identical readings on the negative cycle. I believe % power just changes the amount of time the cell runs during a cycle not the voltage or amperage. Haven't tested this but I'll try and report back to you.

Hope you have better luck with your next call.

Chris
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Hi Chris,

I watched the unit for about an hour and it would go from 0 on both amps and volts to the readings above, then start over. Im not sure if its the controller or the cell (Im thinking cell but who knows).

At this point I just want something that works, so that I can stop worrying over it. Today I picked up four more cases of the liquid bleach and am going to maintain around 12 FC until I get a replacement sorted (going to leave pump and unit at 100% 24hr/s a day to reduce chances of swings as much as possible. Can't have it swing too much and lose the ability for the wife to have her therapy. I likely wont update here again until we know what is going to happen, unless someone here has a great idea of how to fix this one, other than replacement.
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,039
OV, CA
Hi Chris,

I watched the unit for about an hour and it would go from 0 on both amps and volts to the readings above, then start over. Im not sure if its the controller or the cell (Im thinking cell but who knows).
...
How long was the cycle between the on's and the offs. If I recall the cycle time is 180 min.. I'll have to look it up for your model. But that is how mine works. On-then-off and each on cycle it reverses polarity.
 

mgtfp

Bronze Supporter
Mar 5, 2020
277
Melbourne, Australia
Hey Lively,

I jumped into this thread quite late. Very interesting and certainly annoying problem that you are facing there.

Am I right in assuming that your cell is one of those that are not clear, so you don't see what's going on inside (I am not familiar with the US models)? And that's what makes it so difficult to provide clear evidence that the cell is not producing in the + cycle?

Are there other options to check that? Like attaching a microphone to the cell trying to amplify the noise that must be made by the turbulence of all the bubbles being created when the cell is producing chlorine and hydrogen? Or adding a clear piece of pipe after the cell to make the bubbles visible?

Just thinking it might support your warranty claim if you had direct evidence rather than just indirect proof by the lack of chlorine. If you could produce a video that shows the display while you can hear (and not hear while in the + cycle...) the noise in the cell?

Cheers,
Markus
 

setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
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Lively,

I went out and checked my readings. I get to about 24 volts and 4.8 amps positive and negative. Stays the same at 100% or 40% power as I suspected. If voltage is about the same your unit should produce twice my chlorine which would imply your amperage should be much higher. I'll ask our resident expert on electrical to comment if he's available. @JamesW .

I'm pretty sure you have a defective unit.

Chris
 

LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Hey Lively,

I jumped into this thread quite late. Very interesting and certainly annoying problem that you are facing there.

Am I right in assuming that your cell is one of those that are not clear, so you don't see what's going on inside (I am not familiar with the US models)? And that's what makes it so difficult to provide clear evidence that the cell is not producing in the + cycle?

Are there other options to check that? Like attaching a microphone to the cell trying to amplify the noise that must be made by the turbulence of all the bubbles being created when the cell is producing chlorine and hydrogen? Or adding a clear piece of pipe after the cell to make the bubbles visible?

Just thinking it might support your warranty claim if you had direct evidence rather than just indirect proof by the lack of chlorine. If you could produce a video that shows the display while you can hear (and not hear while in the + cycle...) the noise in the cell?

Cheers,
Markus
The RJ60+ has a clear end, and you can see the output. When it is in Reverse Polarity (20~volts and ~ NEGATIVE -7.8amps) it is bubbling and producing.
When it is in Normal Polarity as seen above with positive numbers, it does not bubble or make noise at all. I did mention this to the CircuPool rep 4 times and he still didn't get it or care.
When he answered his first words was "Yeah ok- hold on" then put me on hold for 5 mins, the rest of the call was just as rude from him and I ultimately gave up when I got tired of repeating myself. I asked if he could see the notes from the call the other day and he said they don't have the notes, so that wasn't helpful either.

The duty cycle on the RJ60+ is confirmed at 200mins when on MAX. This is 200mins at Positive and then switch to 200mins Reverse Polarity and keeps cycling. Right now I am running at 24 hours 100% and am producing approx 50% of what it should. This attests to the numbers earlier.

I checked the control unit as often as possible and it never went above the Volt/Amp unless in its Reverse Polarity cycle, when it was also producing. So essentially I am producing for 200mins then nothing for 200mins. Where as I think 50% is 100min cycles if CircuPool is to be quoted.

IS there a way to test the cell? Continuity? Manual Occiliscoping? anyone? Im willing to try anything to figure out if its the Control Box or the Cell while I wait to see if I can return, if we can narrow it down, ultimately I may be able to get just that piece replaced.
 

mgtfp

Bronze Supporter
Mar 5, 2020
277
Melbourne, Australia
Tricky one. I'm sure it must be possible to tap into the connector, and measure directly which voltages actually get through to the cell. On the other hand, showing them those measurements to support your claim, might give them reason to tell you that you voided your warranty by tapping into the system. Even though it would actually be cheaper for them to just replace what's actually broken, I'd rather get the whole thing replaced, to avoid the risk that they're not replacing anything in the end.
 
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peirek

Silver Supporter
Jun 21, 2017
560
Sachse, TX
New to the thread and a bit confused. Ignore me if I missed something.

It seems you running from 3AM to 3PM and are reading your FC during the day and assessing you are not generating the 5ppm. The sun will naturally burn off some, or most, of the generated FC. Can you measure FC in the evening as soon as the sun is off the pool, run @ 100% for 12 hours overnight and measure in the AM hopefully before the sun hits it. This will give you a definitive generating number. It seems you did this once and concluded the 5ppm generation.

You can run normally overnight as long as you are generating enough to offset your daily loss. It will be ~4ppm in Texas at this time of year.

As I said earlier if I missed your points, just ignore this post.
 

setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
3,153
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Lively,

Did Circupool tell you how to get a warranty processed? I've seen owners of several brands including Circupool that either had to return for a warranty replacement or in one post a replacement was sent and a credit was given when the old unit was received. This would seem to be the best path forward in your case.

Chris
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,039
OV, CA
It's called a cross ship in my world of dealing with returns... see if they will do that. You usually put up a credit card purchase for the same unit as collateral.
 
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LivelyOasis

Bronze Supporter
Lively,

Did Circupool tell you how to get a warranty processed? I've seen owners of several brands including Circupool that either had to return for a warranty replacement or in one post a replacement was sent and a credit was given when the old unit was received. This would seem to be the best path forward in your case.

Chris
The CircuPool rep I last spoke with, wasn't helpful and didn't offer to complete a warranty - basically kept blaming it on 0volts (instead of 220v, which it is getting) and kept arguing that without listening to the 20 times I explained it was not POWER to the UNIT but Power from the Unit to the Cell and Readings from the Menu itself. He didn't care.
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,039
OV, CA
Hang up and call back... change the delivery of your facts and let them discover the cell is not working..
There is power to the controller..
There is power going to the cell from the controller
The cell is not generating when it should be..must be the cell.

Are there any dealers in your area where you can take the cell in for testing? That would give you some leverage as well. (perhaps this was mentioned up-thread but I don't recall.)
 
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setsailsoon

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Oct 25, 2015
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The CircuPool rep I last spoke with, wasn't helpful and didn't offer to complete a warranty - basically kept blaming it on 0volts (instead of 220v, which it is getting) and kept arguing that without listening to the 20 times I explained it was not POWER to the UNIT but Power from the Unit to the Cell and Readings from the Menu itself. He didn't care.
Ask for supervisor or call back... sometimes this just happens. You live close... maybe show up at the offices with your unit.
 

mgtfp

Bronze Supporter
Mar 5, 2020
277
Melbourne, Australia
It might help to not focus in the discussion
with the rep on the numbers shown in the display. You can clearly see when your cell is creating chlorine and when not by the activity in the cell. Just take a video showing the unit in the - cycle with bubbles in the cell and then showing the unit in the + cycle with no activity in the cell. I don't see how they could ignore this evidence. And if they do, then ask for the manager.