Am I in trouble

[1poolman1]

@Texas Splash
I found this on the Leslies web site regarding Title 20 California Code, dated 2022:

The Title 20 California Code of Regulations has governed pool pump purchases and installations in California since 2008. Though these laws are nothing new, as old pool pumps need to be replaced, many California residents may still be left wondering, “What pool pumps can I buy?” Here, we’ll answer some of the most common questions about California Title 20 and how it relates to pool pumps and pump motors.

What does Title 20 say about pool pumps?​

Pool filtration pumps and replacement motors purchased and/or installed in California must follow the following basic guidelines:

• Single speed pumps must have a motor capacity less than 1 THP (total horsepower).
• Pool filter pumps with a motor capacity greater than 1 THP must operate at two or more speeds, such as a dual speed or variable speed pool pump. The low speed rotation rate cannot be more than half of the maximum rotation rate.

There is also specific verbiage regarding the motor’s start/run type, label requirements, pump control settings and limitations regarding the date a pump or motor was manufactured. These regulations apply to pool pumps for both inground and above ground residential pools.

Its not just the California regulations, but the DOE's that went into effect in July, 2021 that affect what is available. While CA didn't really worry about above ground pools, the DOE regs do apply to them as well as in-ground pumps. There are still above-ground pumps in 2-speed configuration available online and a pool owner can install one if it can be obtained, there's no inspections, so no enforcement. To be "legal," a timer that will switch to the low speed has always been a requirement. A switch on the back isn't enough. I've heard that many online sellers won't ship anything to CA that doesn't meet DOE and CA requirements. That's where the enforcement comes from.

This is CA's requirements:

• CEC Title 20 Section 1605.3(g)(5) requires any motor used for residential filter pump applications and manufactured before July 19, 2021 that is greater than or equal to 1.0 THP be replaced with a two-speed or variable speed motor.
• CEC Title 20 1605.3(g)(6) requires any motor used for replacement dedicated-purpose pool pump motor on all residential and commercial applications and manufactured on or after July 19, 2021 that is greater than or equal to 0.5 THP be replaced with a variable speed motor.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

There are plenty of small, 1.5HP VSPs on the market today that are not budget-busters. Heck, I think some of the Amazon ones come in under $400 and many utilities offer a rebate if you purchase one. This is a small Intex pool so it doesn’t need that much but, that said, a good-enough VSP running at a low speed, like 1000RPM, will easily work for an Intex pool and, given CA’s ridiculous energy rates, the energy savings will likely pay you back in a few short years. When these pumps run at speeds lower than 1000RPM, they typically use about as much energy as a halogen light bulb. We’re taking a few dollars per month and you can let the pump run 24x7.

 

[Schnozz]

There are plenty of small, 1.5HP VSPs on the market today that are not budget-busters. Heck, I think some of the Amazon ones come in under $400 and many utilities offer a rebate if you purchase one. This is a small Intex pool so it doesn’t need that much but, that said, a good-enough VSP running at a low speed, like 1000RPM, will easily work for an Intex pool and, given CA’s ridiculous energy rates, the energy savings will likely pay you back in a few short years. When these pumps run at speeds lower than 1000RPM, they typically use about as much energy as a halogen light bulb. We’re taking a few dollars per month and you can let the pump run 24x7.

How about this??

BLACK+DECKER Above Ground Variable Speed Pool Pump - 1 HP (Qualifies for Energy Star Utility Rebates)

Energy Star Certified and with an included 3-year warranty, the Black & Decker 1 HP variable-speed above ground pool pump outperforms all other pumps on the market—and pays itself off with up to 80% of energy costs saved in all phases of operation. At last, this industry-revolutionizing...

poolpartstogo.com

 

[Schnozz]

Its not just the California regulations, but the DOE's that went into effect in July, 2021 that affect what is available. While CA didn't really worry about above ground pools, the DOE regs do apply to them as well as in-ground pumps. There are still above-ground pumps in 2-speed configuration available online and a pool owner can install one if it can be obtained, there's no inspections, so no enforcement. To be "legal," a timer that will switch to the low speed has always been a requirement. A switch on the back isn't enough. I've heard that many online sellers won't ship anything to CA that doesn't meet DOE and CA requirements. That's where the enforcement comes from.

This is CA's requirements:

• CEC Title 20 Section 1605.3(g)(5) requires any motor used for residential filter pump applications and manufactured before July 19, 2021 that is greater than or equal to 1.0 THP be replaced with a two-speed or variable speed motor.
• CEC Title 20 1605.3(g)(6) requires any motor used for replacement dedicated-purpose pool pump motor on all residential and commercial applications and manufactured on or after July 19, 2021 that is greater than or equal to 0.5 THP be replaced with a variable speed motor.

I see what you mean. I’ve noticed that there’s many 2-speed and VSP pumps for above ground pools available from supply houses out of state. But many of them cannot be shipped to California…the search continues….

 

[Schnozz]

Or to be somple...This one

RAYPAK - PROTEGE 1.0 HP ABOVE GROUND POOL PUMP, 2 SPEED​

 

[Schnozz]

There are plenty of small, 1.5HP VSPs on the market today that are not budget-busters. Heck, I think some of the Amazon ones come in under $400 and many utilities offer a rebate if you purchase one. This is a small Intex pool so it doesn’t need that much but, that said, a good-enough VSP running at a low speed, like 1000RPM, will easily work for an Intex pool and, given CA’s ridiculous energy rates, the energy savings will likely pay you back in a few short years. When these pumps run at speeds lower than 1000RPM, they typically use about as much energy as a halogen light bulb. We’re taking a few dollars per month and you can let the pump run 24x7.

Anyone.....
This Black & Decker is VSP (Programmable with up to 3 custom speeds 1000/3450 RPM), 115V, three year warranty, available in California . Available at Home Depot. I have trouble reading the pump graphs. Might this fit the bill?.

I found 2 dual speeds from INYO POOLS (1hp-115V and 1.5hp 230V), that would work too.....

INYO has a reasonable VSP as well that would work, it's 230V. Will that make a difference in savings as well?

Obviously, trying to avoid a $1000.00 VSP. for a $900.00 pool. But if the savings are there, I would be all in.....

I'm running a single 40' of 2" suction and a single 40' of 1-1/2" return, both split at the pool with a Jandy 3-way valve. Pentair 150 sqft cartridge filter...

 

[Schnozz]

I'm almost finished....Please don't leave me hanging...
Much difference in these two pumps?? Except of course the B&D is the legal choice...

 

[mknauss]

Calimar/Circupool/BD/Blue Torrent Pump - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Calimar has shown to be cheaper online - same pump as B&D.

 

[Schnozz]

Thank you.....USED CORRECTLY, there is the possibility the energy use would be lower with the 1hp B&D VSP (or the Calimar,/Circupool/Blue Torrent) than the 1hp dual speed Pureline Pro?? (See post 27)

 

[mknauss]

Lowest energy use is a 3 hp VS. Lower rpm to move the same water.

Depending on rpm needed the VS pump will be less than 2 speed.

 

[Schnozz]

Marty:
Currently running 115V with my 2-spd pump. The 1hp VSP B&D will get me down to 1000rpm. I'll probably stick with that. After some further TFP reading, seems to be very little benefit to adding 230V for a VSP pump with features I won't use and drop to 500rpm....I've got a little time to decide...Thanks for the input

 

[Schnozz]

Can someone tell me how do these two different Pump Curve Graphs relate to each other?? The WATERWAY graph is FEET OF HEAD to FLOW RATE. Does the B & D graph display the same info? Are the numbers basically the same......It seems so to me, with my keen upholsterers eye....

 

[mas985]

For an AG pool such as yours, the smallest pump is sufficient and 20-30 GPM is more than enough flow rate. I have a pool that is 3x the size of yours and I set my VS pump to about 35 GPM and I have two skimmers as well. For skimming and circulation, the pump does not need to provide much in the way of flow rate (~15-25 GPM/skimmer).

As for the pump head curve, I would not get overly concerned about that. Again, a VS pump will allow you to adjust the flow rate to whatever the pool needs. If you want some more information, you can read the Hydraulics 101 sticky in my signature. The Waterway has a slightly higher head curve which means for a given RPM, it will produce a bit more flow rate but that is not necessarily an advantage in your situation.

But based upon your lack of response to my previous posts, I can only assume you have no interest in at least trying to repair your current pump motor?

 

[Schnozz]

For an AG pool such as yours, the smallest pump is sufficient and 20-30 GPM is more than enough flow rate. I have a pool that is 3x the size of yours and I set my VS pump to about 35 GPM and I have two skimmers as well. For skimming and circulation, the pump does not need to provide much in the way of flow rate (~15-25 GPM/skimmer).

As for the pump head curve, I would not get overly concerned about that. Again, a VS pump will allow you to adjust the flow rate to whatever the pool needs. If you want some more information, you can read the Hydraulics 101 sticky in my signature. The Waterway has a slightly higher head curve which means for a given RPM, it will produce a bit more flow rate but that is not necessarily an advantage in your situation.

But based upon your lack of response to my previous posts, I can only assume you have no interest in at least trying to repair your current pump motor?

Thank you. My apologies, I don't want to come off as unappreciative for the advise. I do have an interest in trying to repair the pump motor. I've been away since the 10th. So research for a upgrade to a VSP is something I could do while away. You Suggested that I check the following in Post #11 "A two speed motor like that has a centrifugal switch and sometimes a spring comes loose which makes the governor rattle. It might be worth a look at the back end of the motor." I'll check it out. @JamesW suggested in Post #15 that I should "Check the voltage and make sure that the impeller is clean and not damaged." and if it's the bearings, I should probably replace the motor. Some responses seemed to indicate it might be more cost effective to replace and upgrade than to repair...
I have no experience with electrical motors. It's a little daunting. But I will follow through... Thanks again for the info regarding the pump curve graph.....

 

[Schnozz]

@mas985..This is the Centrifugal Switch your talking about?? I access that by unplugging and removing the back motor cover?

 

[mas985]

Yes, it looks like everything is in tack and pretty clean back there so I don't think there is any interference. Can you easily spin the motor shaft?

 

[Schnozz]

Maybe bad bearings.

Probably time to replace the pump.

The motor sounds slow for some reason.

Check the voltage and make sure that the impeller is clean and not damaged.

If the impeller is good and the voltage is good, it's probably time to replace the pump.

I check the voltage across the terminals with the back off the motor and the motor running, correct?? I'm safe for now, I'm in a different city..It's just a question

There's been no change in water pressure or flow, the pump basket is full and has plenty of flowing water and the return and suction lines are showing strong water flow, can I would assume the impeller/pump is fine??

 

[Schnozz]

Yes, it looks like everything is in tack and pretty clean back there so I don't think there is any interference. Can you easily spin the motor shaft?

Sorry, its only a photo. trying to figure out how complicated it was to inspect the switch. I was doing a little research on line, because I'm not too familiar with electric motors, before taking out any tools...LOL Now I know what I'm looking for...

 

[mas985]

Ok, I thought that was your pump motor. It looked a little too new.

There is a reed switch that covers the governor not shown in that picture (see below). You don't need to remove it unless there is something wrong with the governor. You are looking for broken or loose springs and/or debris stuck in the back of the motor. You will also want to spin the motor to see if there was interference somewhere.

As for the voltage, yes, it is helpful to measure that when the motor is running if you can do it safely. It can also be useful to measure it when the motor is off as well for a comparison.

You really don't want to replace a pump until you can rule out certain problems that might remain even when the pump swapped out.

 

[Schnozz]

So WE'RE going troubleshoot to figure out if it's the pump motor or the pump itself. At some point, we could actually replace just the pump motor, or just the pump, or the entire pump motor/pump combination....