Advice on what to do with pool contractor $14000 unexpected charge

[JW9DVC]

Sorry to hear about this and hopefully resolved by now.

Any dump fees need to include invoices from the dump directly. With dates and times along with vehicle identification for each.

I would also make sure any business invoices or copies are not just being produced. All are generally numbered. With a ledger. So you should be xxxxx and they are currently in the yyyyu. Much like your personal checking account / checks.

Time delay with tree work/ removal. Were they present while this work was being done. Just waiting? Rental receipts for the equipment will also show times and dates. Especially if a rental company dropped off and picked up. Did equipment just sit and was not used and not called off by renter? Or transferred to another site.

Justin

 

[FlapjackMcCoy]

I agree with JW, get the receipts. Go directly to the sub-contractor if possible. This worked for me when the PB tried to charge me $2,600 for the crane rental. I called the crane company a few months later and asked for a copy of the receipt for the crane that was at my house on so and so date and guess what it only cost $600. I made them refund me the difference.

 

[brimorga]

Sorry to hear about this and hopefully resolved by now.

Any dump fees need to include invoices from the dump directly. With dates and times along with vehicle identification for each.

I would also make sure any business invoices or copies are not just being produced. All are generally numbered. With a ledger. So you should be xxxxx and they are currently in the yyyyu. Much like your personal checking account / checks.

Time delay with tree work/ removal. Were they present while this work was being done. Just waiting? Rental receipts for the equipment will also show times and dates. Especially if a rental company dropped off and picked up. Did equipment just sit and was not used and not called off by renter? Or transferred to another site.

Justin

I agree with JW, get the receipts. Go directly to the sub-contractor if possible. This worked for me when the PB tried to charge me $2,600 for the crane rental. I called the crane company a few months later and asked for a copy of the receipt for the crane that was at my house on so and so date and guess what it only cost $600. I made them refund me the difference.

I've been slow playing this a bit and the pool company is also slow to respond as their business is still booming. The city just came out and completed final inspection yesterday and the build coordinator stopped by to discuss the invoice. Basically he said that the excavation coordinator is no longer with the company which is why this got missed. Not really my problem, but ok.

He said they would send me copies of all the receipts, so I'm waiting on that to review before we get into the details of the contract where they were supposed to present me with a work order before they proceed. They are now trying to get me to sign a change order. lol

I did have a great chat with the excavator when he was doing the work. Great dude, he told me what he actually charges and warned me about the pool company and my specific designer doing this. I had thought I was in the clear since I didn't hear anything from them for 7 months!

The excavator actually rented the chainsaw and cut down the tree, it didn't take him long as it wasn't that big. They cut it down, sliced a few pieces and dragged it out front where I did the rest.

 

[Dirk]

They are now trying to get me to sign a change order.

Yah, of course they are. They know they messed up. Have them prove (with receipts) what they actually did and what it actually cost them. Offer to pay them their cost of any legit extra work (without their markup/profit). That, to me, seems like a reasonable resolution. You pay for what you got. They're not out any true expenses. They waive their markup because they mis-managed the extra work and its paperwork and accounting. Like you said, that's not your problem. Think about it: general contractors are due a fair profit because their job is to manage the subs and all the paperwork and accounting involved. They didn't do that job correctly, they shouldn't now get paid for it (their markup I'm talking about, not the actual subcontractor work).

If you do decide to give them any more money, don't do so unless they hand you every lien release required.

 

[RetirementFund]

Dirk, you are to be commended for your time and advice. Kudos to you Sir.

BTW, the orange vette was awesome

 

[Newdude]

Dirk, you are to be commended for your time and advice. Kudos to you Sir.

For REAL. Any of us that regularly post know *exactly* how long a 'Dirk post' takes. It does not just come out right the first time. Then it needs to be edited a dozen times for continuity and autocorrect. And then 'Dang it !!!! what makes sense in my head didn't come out right on paper' (a dozen more edits)

Bravo as always @Dirk.

 

[Dirk]

I just hope I helped the OP in some small way...

Edited: content.

Edited: spelling.

Edited: added winkie face.

Edited: editeds.

 

[brimorga]

I just hope I helped the OP in some small way...

Edited: content.

Edited: spelling.

Edited: added winkie face.

Edited: editeds.

Dirk, you're the man! You've helped me in a bunch of threads, not just this one. I'm loving the flowvis you recommended to me in another thread, that thing is amazing and has helped me learn so much.

The situation on this thread is much more complicated (and expensive). All the advice everyone has given is great and so much appreciated. Right now I don't want to say too much more until I have a better handle on things as they are progressing slowly.

 

[Dirk]

loving the flowvis

Oh, right. Sorry, I get tunnel vision and don't always realize I'm talking to the same person in different threads! Glad the Vis is working out for you. Hopefully this thread will have a happy ending, too. My contractor experiences, from which I draw my "wisdom," also progressed slowly. Very slowly. Months and months. I think the one with my pool took upwards of nine months to resolve. I almost caved a couple times, as it was so frustrating. But persevering paid off, and I'm glad now I stuck to my guns. You will be, too.

 

[kimkats]

In to watch the end of the madding story. You are doing the right thing in keeping things on the down low and everything in writing! THANKS @Dirk for leading a hand again!

 

[brimorga]

So, I got the invoices from the dump runs and from the excavators. Apparently they took 4 loads of dirt to a place that accepts dirt for $600 total, $150 a run. They then said that our dirt was too rocky and they took all our dirt to the dump instead. I have 22 invoices from the dump for a total of 280 tons at an average cost of $530 per dump run. This adds up to what they are asking for material disposal.

They also provided the invoice from the excavator which matches the total 3.5 days they are asking for (contract included 2 days and they want 1.5 extra). They redacted the rate that they pay the excavator but I know they mark it up around double cause that's what the sub-con told me.

They still want me to pay the $14K and sign the change order, but I'm not exactly sure what to do next. We didn't budget in advance for a surprise $14K bill. If I pay them what I assume their cost is, it's $10,037, which is still a massive amount of money for us.

 

[Newdude]

Welp. I feel alot better about you not being taken advantage of.

I do not believe you are not legally responsible for it as the PB did not get it in writing. He would force you to abide by the contract in a HEARTBEAT if it favored him. *DO* *NOT* *SIGN* *ANYTHING*


l also believe you are morally responsible for it.

I also also believe that its not my $14k or even $10k+ on the line, so.

 

[mknauss]

How did they go from 4 loads of dirt to 280 tons? That is at least 14 dump truck loads.

 

[brimorga]

How did they go from 4 loads of dirt to 280 tons? That is at least 14 dump truck loads.

They did 4 dump truck runs at the cheap place at $150 each. Than that place rejected my dirt because it was too rocky and they did 22 more runs for the 280tons at an average of $530 each.

This is the info they shared with me when I requested the invoices. They never said anything about it previously. I mean, there were some rocks but it was mainly dirt.

 

[mknauss]

I find it interesting that, what I am assuming is a municipal landfill, charged $530 per truck for material they need each day to 'cover' the landfill material. Amazing.

 

[ajw22]

I would call the $530 dump and talk with them to confirm the pricing and see what they can tell you.

I think the builder had a responsibility to inform you of what was going on at the time of the dump and you unfortunately are on the hook for the bill. These things happen in construction and some contingency must be built into the budget.

 

[Foxer]

$530 per load seems insanely high. At least it is for my area. Fortunately my excavator had a place to dump for free, but some of my grass I had to dump at the landfill at their rate of $12/ton. Maybe those rates aren’t typical, but at $530/load I would have expected the builder to say something at the time.

What’s done is done, and it’s definitely a crappy situation to be in.

 

[PoolGate]

If it was me, and I felt some sort of moral obligation to pay them anything at all, I'd offer $5k and tell them take it or I'll see you in court.

 

[Newdude]

^^^^^^ there is always that too. The builder has no idea what your finances are. You can tell him you were denied any extra loans and can offer him your last $5k (?)

He may bite just to be done, all this time later.

 

[Dirk]

I agree with @ajw22, for sure. It was bad enough that they did that extra work without the change order. But to authorize, without your knowledge or consent, an expense that went from the expected $150 to an unexpected $530, times 22, is pretty irresponsible. That's an additional $8,360 if I'm understanding the math correctly. I don't know what Judge Judy would say about all this, but you could argue you suffered some possible damages: that had you been given the opportunity to know about this in advance you might have been able to source a cheaper or even free disposal site yourself. If you researched one now and found one, that would go a long way to proving that point. Verifying with the two dump sites about the "too many rocks" issue and the actual dump fee would be prudent.

It sounds to me like they were too busy and neglected not only the change order, but also looking into how to get rid of "rocky dirt" at a better rate. A clear case of "it's not my money." Well, it just might be, at this point. I like @PoolGate's and @Newdude's idea. Everything is negotiable. I'd go $3,900 ($150 * 26), or $4,180 (half of the additional expense of using the municipal landfill), whichever. Those numbers have the sound of being reasonable: you're willing to pay for the original estimated cost, or you're willing to split the cost of their mistake (multiple mistakes). Something along those lines. Don't round off the number (like $4K or $5K). Use a number that is supported by some sort of logical math. That'll sound more like you're trying to be fair, vs just trying to shave the price (to the contractor as well as a judge).

When faced with the fact that one is going to have to charge someone else 3.5 times an original estimate (especially when that'll end up in the four- or five-figure range), it's pretty shady that ya don't bother to mention it! A judge might see it that way, especially considering, by their own contract, you're not obligated to pay them anything.