Adding SWG - Now Facing Pump Issue

[bdavis17]

Hi all,

First off, thank you for any help here as this is becoming more complex and expensive.

The goal is to add a Circupool RJ60+ SWG to the existing setup. Unfortunately the mechanical timers and pad are about 15 ft apart as the prior owner ran conduit underground to the pad. So, I am now going to put some posts near the pad and some plywood to mount the SWG control panel so its near the cell.

To turn off/on the SWG, we have the flow switch. And then a pool tech plans on hooking up the SWG to the gang electrical box on the pad that sends power to the Pentair pump. Right now the pump is scheduled on its own and the mechanical timer is perpetually in the ON position. With this new setup, the mechanical timer will need to work again and also provide a schedule matching closely to the pump's programmed schedule. I noticed that when I manually turn OFF the mechanical timer providing power to the pump that the pump says "ALARM Power Failure" for a few seconds and then powers off. Upon turning the mechanical timer back ON, the pump's screen comes back to life but the set time becomes 1:00AM. And apparently once the memory goes, the pump might as well be shot. This is going to present a problem every day if I am cutting power to the pump and SWG via this mechanical timer.

Feeling like I am at the point of either A) Buy a new pump as well or B) Rely solely on the SWG flow switch or C) double up and add a second flow switch and get a splitter for jack or D) attempt to get an electrician to use a circuit relay to communicate certain amp level from pump to SWG indicating when its on. But do I need to build a cover over the pad at this point?

Also, has a brand created a pump that has the ability to be connected to an SWG and communicate scheduling so this problem is less of an issue?

 

[ajw22]

Post pics of your timer and your pool equipment.

You don't need to buy a new pump but you do need to make some changes in the electrical wiring around the timer, pump, and SWG.

The VS pump needs to have continuous power not switched by a timer while the SWG needs to have switched power connected to a timer or current sensing relay.

We don't recommend relying only on the SWG flow switch as they do fail and explosions have happened.

Here is one report - Explosion near the SWG

And another - Help,, my pipe exploded !!!

Exploding pool!!!

A pump like the Pentair IntelliFlo3 with an IO board can turn the SWG ON and OFF when the pump turns ON and OFF. That would cost about $2,050 at Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF 3.0HP with Relay Board & Touchscreen

 

[bdavis17]

Apologies for the delay. Attached are some pictures of the pad and you can see the timers attached to the house in the distance from one of the pictures.

I have been looking into the Pentair Intelliconnect. While I already have the Circupool RJ60+ and would have to return/ship/restock in order to switch it out to a Pentair SWG, would this Intelliconnect work in managing the Pentair pump (scheduled and maintaining itself currently) as well as turning on the Circupool SWG when the pump is running? This would be another option besides the current sensing relay. I am trying to figure out the advantage of having the Pentair SWG with the Intelliconnect but not seeing anything glaring that would make me want to switch from the Circupool SWG which does have more chlorine output.

Leslie Pool Pentair Intelliconnect

 

[ajw22]

The IntelliConnect gives you two relays.

One can be used for your Polaris cleaner booster pump and one can be used for the SWG. You will not have a relay available for your pool light or any other device.

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[bdavis17]

I don't know why this seems more confusing than it should be for me.

I would connect the Pentair VSP and the Circupool SWG to the relays. The Pentair VSP has a schedule programmed in it now but the Pentair Intelliconnect app would be the new scheduler for both devices. Both devices FULLY power off/on based on the Intelliconnect's app settings. The Pentair VSP will not longer be powered in an "always on" state.

I would not be able to use the RS-485 connectors for the SWG since its not a Pentair but possibly could for the Pentair pump dependent on the model. The potential advantage of getting the Pentair IC60 and returning the Circupool RJ60 would be the RS-485 connection which would give additional information about the device in the app.

 

[ajw22]

I would connect the Pentair VSP and the Circupool SWG to the relays.

No. The Pentair VSP will connect to the Intelliconnect using RS-485 and be cintously pwoered. It does not connect to a relay.

What model VS pump do you have?

The Pentair VSP has a schedule programmed in it now but the Pentair Intelliconnect app would be the new scheduler for both devices.

The IntelliConnect would schedule the pump and whatever is connected to the 2 relays.

The Pentair VSP will not longer be powered in an "always on" state.

No.

I would not be able to use the RS-485 connectors for the SWG since its not a Pentair but possibly could for the Pentair pump dependent on the model. The potential advantage of getting the Pentair IC60 and returning the Circupool RJ60 would be the RS-485 connection which would give additional information about the device in the app.

Correct. With an IntelliChlor you can adjust the % generation and see SWG status from the app.

 

[bdavis17]

Looks like its a Pentair VSP 3.0HP Model No. 011018.

And it sounds like its not worth the cost to return and purchase the Pentair SWG as I think its not often that I will need to adjust % generation and monitor SWG status. Its nice, but not worth the trouble. Open to opinions here.

The IntelliConnect would schedule the pump and whatever is connected to the 2 relays.

This sounds good then..basically an expensive way of avoiding a typical current sensing relay method. The pump's schedule would then be "deleted" I am assuming.

Thank you for the help!!!

 

[ajw22]

Looks like its a Pentair VSP 3.0HP Model No. 011018.

That will work via RS-485 with the IntelliConnect.

You will need the Pentair Intelliflo 50ft Communication Cable P/N 350122. It is a black cable and connects to the port on the side of the pump.

And it sounds like its not worth the cost to return and purchase the Pentair SWG as I think its not often that I will need to adjust % generation and monitor SWG status. Its nice, but not worth the trouble. Open to opinions here.

Depends on what you are willing to pay for convenience. I like integration and if you can return the RJ60 I would.

Pentair IntelliChlor IC60 Complete Salt Chlorinator System

This sounds good then..basically an expensive way of avoiding a typical current sensing relay method. The pump's schedule would then be "deleted" I am assuming.

I think the schedules in the pump will be ignored when under automation control.

 

[bdavis17]

I am still in the 30 day return window for the unopened RJ60 but will pay 10% fee + shipping…will think about it

Awesome news that the pump will work with the intelliconnect. You have been immensely helpful - thank you!

 

[bdavis17]

Update:
Going to go with the pentair IC60 and pentair Intelliconnect to manage the pump and salt cell.

Since the 2 year warranty is only valid if a professional installs the system I had someone come out to the house to check it out and provide a quote. One of the things mentioned that has thrown off the project is that the electrical power / breakers come from the house to a junction box supplying power and the salt cell has to be on a different circuit than the pump for the warranty to be valid. To avoid digging up the trench where the conduit runs, he proposed having to move all the power to the pad and no longer be on the side of the house.

Is this true that I cannot have the salt cell on the same circuit as the pump/heater? I preferred just to tap power from the box at the pad. I questioned him in some regards as he wasn't familiar with intelliconnect and mentioned I had to drain all the water to get CYA down (if needed) versus a portion of it depending on how high the pool was (currently around 85).

 

[Jimrahbe]

17,

That is a load of Bull Feathers... Who told you that?

The pump and the cell can be on the same breaker..

But they suggest that nothing else be connected to that same breaker.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ajw22]

Refer to the IntelliChlor Installation manual which is online...

mentioned I had to drain all the water to get CYA down (if needed) versus a portion of it depending on how high the pool was (currently around 85).

CYA 90 is a bit high but I would not drain much if any for the SWG. You will lose about 10ppm per month and in 2 to 3 months your CYA will be down around 70.

 

[newdude]

Apologies for butting in but why not just run as little RPMs as needed 24/7 ?

Many of us do and it costs peanuts even where electric is expensive. The pump won't need memory if it's just 'on'.

Then you don't need a timer for the SWG either. It will always have flow.

 

[bdavis17]

That is a load of Bull Feathers... Who told you that?

The pump and the cell can be on the same breaker..

But they suggest that nothing else be connected to that same breaker.

Thank you for confirming. I was spun around when he said that and would cost additional $ and work . This was an owner of a reputable pool company but something did seem "off" as I have been getting more familiar with pool maintenance.

My breaker box has a breaker for the pump. So, sounds like we just need to have the SWG tie into that from the gang box at the pad. And then I guess the Intelliconnect itself can tie into a different one such as the heater if only the SWG and pump can be together.

 

[bdavis17]

Apologies for butting in but why not just run as little RPMs as needed 24/7 ?

Many of us do and it costs peanuts even where electric is expensive. The pump won't need memory if it's just 'on'.

Then you don't need a timer for the SWG either. It will always have flow.

I suppose that I am trying to avoid this for a "cleaner" setup in my mind. Wouldn't this also decrease the lifespan of the salt cell?

 

[newdude]

Wouldn't this also decrease the lifespan of the salt cell?

24 hours at 20% is the same lifespan as 12 hours at 40%, or 8 hours at 60%.

With a longer runtime you run it less % of the time, but it's 'on' the same amount of time in the end.

I suppose that I am trying to avoid this for a "cleaner" setup in my mind

With more things to install ? That would make it busy and more expensive than it needs to be.

Use this as you excuse to get automation if you've been itching for it. I won't tell your spouse, the secret is safe with me. Jim and Allen are automation whisperers and will steer you proper.

But I'm a hardcore 24/7 guy along with Allen and Jim above.

 

[bdavis17]

Not to keep pounding on this thread but I just called another pool company and they said outright they do not install SWGs because it wears down the plaster quickly and have to use more muriatic acid. I understand more use of muriatic acid and salt can be corrosive. I lean on this forum for the truth so how real is THAT? Still planning on going with an SWG but being thrown for a loop today it seems.

 

[newdude]

I lean on this forum for the truth so how real is THAT

If you let them mismanage your poolcare ? Maybe. Probably alot more than maybe.

But like 24/7, the other 3 of us here wouldn't have it any other way but SWG.

 

[ajw22]

It gets funny how much shade Pool Stores can throw on a SWG to keep customers from going to the method that needs them the least.