Man it is right IN those bushes! Poor guy! Make sure to get some survey flags to make it so the rain does not wash it away.
26' Intex - Planning, Install, Upgrades, and Landscaping Thread
- Thread starter jseyfert3
- Start date
Yeah I know, I feel slightly bad for him.
He's both putting painted marks and flags. That said, by law here, if excavation doesn't start within ten days, or starts but pauses for more than ten days, I need to have it re-marked even if the marks are still visible. The pool permit requires site inspection before any dirt is moved, though I could start working on a fence if I wanted I suppose. But ultimately this is more of a planning mark than anything I wasn't planning on actually starting work, just using this to plan the fence/pool location and write up the plans for both permits for the city.
The city requires no inspections for the fence permit, but the pool requires three inspections. Site inspection, before any dirt is moved or the pool is placed, and the utilities have to be marked before this inspection. Electrical inspection, if required (it will be, as the pool is too far to reach the house outlets so I'll need outlets added on a post). And final inspection of the pool, fence, and locking mechanisms before the pool can be used.
So basically the guy will be out once more to re-mark the backyard, though it may be easier the next time because if I have specific spots to put the pool/pool electric/fence based on this marking, he only needs to verify that where I'm going to work there are no utilities.
I also will need him in about a week and a half to mark the front yard for the trees we are planting. He will love us. At least three visits this year.
I'll get and post some more pictures once he's done. As I expected, no pool in the right side (when standing on the deck), as the utilities do indeed run from the back boxes to the middle-ish part of my house.
A potentially annoying thing I realized might happen is we learn that the electric runs under or within 5' of the spa. That would suck, cause that would mean we'd have to move the spa. It would also mean the previous owners didn't get a permit to put the spa in. I don't know if that's the case yet, as the guy who was here left, which means he doesn't mark electric. He marked the phone lines and cable lines. How many more people are there? Let me re-check that email....okay, there are 5. A gas pipeline company, energy co (electric and gas service), the City, cable, and phone.
He's both putting painted marks and flags. That said, by law here, if excavation doesn't start within ten days, or starts but pauses for more than ten days, I need to have it re-marked even if the marks are still visible. The pool permit requires site inspection before any dirt is moved, though I could start working on a fence if I wanted I suppose. But ultimately this is more of a planning mark than anything I wasn't planning on actually starting work, just using this to plan the fence/pool location and write up the plans for both permits for the city.
The city requires no inspections for the fence permit, but the pool requires three inspections. Site inspection, before any dirt is moved or the pool is placed, and the utilities have to be marked before this inspection. Electrical inspection, if required (it will be, as the pool is too far to reach the house outlets so I'll need outlets added on a post). And final inspection of the pool, fence, and locking mechanisms before the pool can be used.
So basically the guy will be out once more to re-mark the backyard, though it may be easier the next time because if I have specific spots to put the pool/pool electric/fence based on this marking, he only needs to verify that where I'm going to work there are no utilities.
I also will need him in about a week and a half to mark the front yard for the trees we are planting. He will love us. At least three visits this year.
I'll get and post some more pictures once he's done. As I expected, no pool in the right side (when standing on the deck), as the utilities do indeed run from the back boxes to the middle-ish part of my house.
A potentially annoying thing I realized might happen is we learn that the electric runs under or within 5' of the spa. That would suck, cause that would mean we'd have to move the spa. It would also mean the previous owners didn't get a permit to put the spa in. I don't know if that's the case yet, as the guy who was here left, which means he doesn't mark electric. He marked the phone lines and cable lines. How many more people are there? Let me re-check that email....okay, there are 5. A gas pipeline company, energy co (electric and gas service), the City, cable, and phone.
- City marked already, nothing on my property except one corner. That was for electric to a streetlight nearby.
- Gas pipeline emailed and said nothing in my property, which I already knew cause it's a block down the street, but the ticket system puts it in anyway.
- Cable and phone were just marked by a sub-contracted marking service, which is the guy that was pictured above.
That is until she all of the dirt/mud you and the puppy brings in!!!! LOL
Looking NE from the deck you can see the phone/cable do not interfere with the proposed location I outlined previously for the middle-rear of the yard. While no code says I can't build a pool over phone or cable wires, there is a law saying no powered equipment within 18" of the line so a landscaping company couldn't grade over these. Plus they are usually buried very shallow, unlike the electric lines. While electric is not yet marked, I suspect it runs more or less in the same direction as these lines.
So when I actually got out there it appears I could run a fence at the rear property line, as the cable and phone are set inwards enough that I could probably even use a powered post hole digger legally, so long as the electric is in line or to the left of the phone/cable. I suspect the property line is right about in line with the left edges of the trees. Of course putting a fence here will suck big time due to the roots from the trees and bushes. Can I just use the trees as my fence posts?
Will update further once the electric/gas is marked, and start plotting things out on sample site plans which I'll also post here.
So when I actually got out there it appears I could run a fence at the rear property line, as the cable and phone are set inwards enough that I could probably even use a powered post hole digger legally, so long as the electric is in line or to the left of the phone/cable. I suspect the property line is right about in line with the left edges of the trees. Of course putting a fence here will suck big time due to the roots from the trees and bushes. Can I just use the trees as my fence posts?
Will update further once the electric/gas is marked, and start plotting things out on sample site plans which I'll also post here.
#*$&! I was afraid of that.
All pools/hot tubs have to be 5' horizontal feet from underground electric lines. The spa is less than 5' from the electric line (red). That means two things:
And the worst part is, if they had gotten a permit, or even looked into the code, they would have known it just had to be slid over a couple feet is all.
EDIT to add: As far as the electrical no other picture needed, it runs right alongside the phone (so left marking from deck picture), and slightly to the inside of the phone/cable back at the bushes. So it appears we should be fine to put a pool up in the center rear of the yard, and run the fence out to the property line should we not have too many issues with roots.
All pools/hot tubs have to be 5' horizontal feet from underground electric lines. The spa is less than 5' from the electric line (red). That means two things:
- The previous owners did not get a permit to install a hot tub, as the electrical inspector would not have signed off on this location.
- We're going to have to move that hot tub, cause the inspector is going to call that out when they come to do the pool permit. We'll have to shut down the hot tub, get a permit, move the hot tub, redo electrical for it, and have it inspected before we can use it again. Sigh.
And the worst part is, if they had gotten a permit, or even looked into the code, they would have known it just had to be slid over a couple feet is all.EDIT to add: As far as the electrical no other picture needed, it runs right alongside the phone (so left marking from deck picture), and slightly to the inside of the phone/cable back at the bushes. So it appears we should be fine to put a pool up in the center rear of the yard, and run the fence out to the property line should we not have too many issues with roots.
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GURRRR on the hot tub!!! Bad people BAD!!!!!!
Yea on the fence where you want it!!! It will all work out in the end!
Kim
Yea on the fence where you want it!!! It will all work out in the end!
Kim
My realtor said they have not dealt recently with cases of something being done not to code, when the owners signed a disclosure saying everything was done to code. So they are going to contact the realtor agency they work for and see how these situations are handled.
Tonight when I'm done working I'll try and start sketching out actual layouts that I can post here for suggestions and eventually turn in along with my permit applications as site plans.
Tonight when I'm done working I'll try and start sketching out actual layouts that I can post here for suggestions and eventually turn in along with my permit applications as site plans.
I don’t know how exactly disputes turn out by you, But most places it would be hard to prove that the previous owner knew and lied. They can claim that the person whom they hired said it was all legit and so to their knowledge it was.
I root for people all the time. I’m certainly rooting here for you again. I'm just not sure you can prove it.
That's a good point. Of course, from what I know/have seen about the previous owner, I'm sure they did the electrical hookup themselves. But actually proving that would be difficult to impossible, as pointed out.
Let's see, besides the hassle, what would it take to get this up to code?
Let's see, besides the hassle, what would it take to get this up to code?
- Building permit: $72, unless possible to combine with permit for pool (I think each project needs its own permit though).
- Electrical permit: $100. It is possible to combine this with the electrical permit for the pool most likely, so long as it's done along with the pool electrical permit. (min fee $100 could cover tons of work)
- Electrical work: Assuming it doesn't all need to be re-done, just extended, and I do the trench digging, I figure somewhere around $200 for parts and labor, assuming the electrician is already out here to do pool wiring anyway.
Extending can be an issue because that would mean a splice. Depending on the type of splice and local codes it may not be kosher. You can always shorten a circuit but extending it gets tricky.
Yeah, I didn't mean splice though I didn't specify. What I meant is cut a new length of liquidtight flex conduit (or PVC) from the disconnect switch to the spa, along with new lengths of wires on that section. What would hopefully be the case (and what I'm expecting) is the breaker/disconnect and wiring between them is otherwise good, and would not all have to be replaced because of code for some reason, only the section between the disconnect and spa.
Somebody here should know if there is a max distance code from the hot tub to the shutoff. That would let you know now if you had enough leeway to move the tub 10 ft (or whatever)
Found this one, although a tad older
www.troublefreepool.com
Placing hot tub disconnect 25 ft. from tub
I'm in the process of installing line for a tub, and while I hear that the disconnect must not be placed less than 4-5 feet away, I don't hear much over how far it can be placed. Since the tub will sit on the corner of an enclosed patio, I'm thinking of placing the disconnect on the wall --...
www.troublefreepool.com
I would think I could. I have access to the latest NEC through work, but I'm lazy and don't want to go wade through that right now.
I just went wading. It looks like wisconsin refers back to the NEC which used the over 5 ft rule. (So you can't touch it while having one foot in the tub, the same as bathroom light switches). The code specifies it must be 'in direct line of sight' which is then estimated as a maximum of 50ft. So it looks good.
There's always things that pop up with projects, aren't there?
We just got a letter from a company informing us they will be replacing the underground electric lines in our neighborhood in the very near future. It actually says starting March 16th, the letter is dated March 13th. I've actually seen planning markers in nearby areas but I didn't know what they were for until now.
Anyhow, they gave a contact name and info for question, I sent the contact some questions as my assumption is I don't want to put up a fence, or at least finish the fence, until this project is complete. The back of our property has a 10' wide utility easement. As I understand, while I can put a fence inside the easement , if they need to get equipment in to do work and the fence is in the way, well too back for me. So normally not an issue, but probably not a good thing to do a month before they replace underground electric lines.
I asked if there was any reason we couldn't put up an above ground pool outside of the utility easement. If this project is going to take all summer, we could switch gears and put up the pool with a fence around the top and a locking gate or flip-up locking stairs, and skip fencing in the backyard until this project is finished.
We just got a letter from a company informing us they will be replacing the underground electric lines in our neighborhood in the very near future. It actually says starting March 16th, the letter is dated March 13th. I've actually seen planning markers in nearby areas but I didn't know what they were for until now.
Anyhow, they gave a contact name and info for question, I sent the contact some questions as my assumption is I don't want to put up a fence, or at least finish the fence, until this project is complete. The back of our property has a 10' wide utility easement. As I understand, while I can put a fence inside the easement , if they need to get equipment in to do work and the fence is in the way, well too back for me. So normally not an issue, but probably not a good thing to do a month before they replace underground electric lines.
I asked if there was any reason we couldn't put up an above ground pool outside of the utility easement. If this project is going to take all summer, we could switch gears and put up the pool with a fence around the top and a locking gate or flip-up locking stairs, and skip fencing in the backyard until this project is finished.
they might be willing to clear your extra brush if you talk to the right guy on the day they are near.
So I realized the other day that from the spare bedroom you can get the best overall view of the backyard short of a drone or climbing onto the roof. I took a picture to post here. As you can see, nothing that involves digging on the right side of the yard. Which is unfortunate, as way back (maybe in my pool choosing thread) I mentioned that's the flattest part of the yard and ideally you have the pool up close to the patio and hot tub.
Based on previous messages, I expect the hot tub will have to slide to the right. We'll probably move it all the way to the other edge of the patio if that's the case. What I'm thinking looking at this picture is if the pool sits in the center where the putting green is that we'd have a path coming off the lower patio (covered by the hot tub currently). This would be pavers or something so you can walk from the pool to the house without going through the yard. That's the door we'd want to use for restroom breaks anyhow.
Based on previous messages, I expect the hot tub will have to slide to the right. We'll probably move it all the way to the other edge of the patio if that's the case. What I'm thinking looking at this picture is if the pool sits in the center where the putting green is that we'd have a path coming off the lower patio (covered by the hot tub currently). This would be pavers or something so you can walk from the pool to the house without going through the yard. That's the door we'd want to use for restroom breaks anyhow.
I was wondering about that. Since we were planning on taking out that row of bushes I was wondering if they needed them gone anyway and might remove them for us. OTOH there's a good chance they won't, as unless they are pulling out the old cables, most cable work these days involves horizontal drilling machines and not trench work.
too bad, I never thought of that. not much electric underground around here, too much rock, I guess.
Yeah could be. Could also be Arizona is more suited to above-ground utilities. Buried utilities have a much higher initial cost due to the work involved in burying them. They also have downsides such as people digging into them cause they didn't call to have the utilities marked and such. Plus more expensive to replace since they are buried.
It looks a lot nicer to not have utility poles and lines running everywhere though.
But the primary reason for burying, as I understand, is actually because the total lifetime cost can be less. With above ground utilities you have to trim trees on a regular basis. Storms can drop trees and branches on the lines, taking them out. And in colder places, ice storms are another one that takes lines out.
I know Arizona doesn't have ice storm problems, but I'm guessing they also don't have nearly the amount of severe thunderstorms we get here in the midwest either. "Damaging winds in excess of 60 MPH" is a common statement when listening to NOAA weather radio alerts around here in the spring/summer. It's a common sight to have large branches and even trees down after the big storms.
I love watching thunderstorms though. And I've always wanted to see a tornado with my own eyes. Maybe one of these days...