16' x 30' Flat Kidney Owner Build

[duckcmmndr]

Honestly I would spend some time w a transit or laser level and stake grade sticks. Your eyes will lie to you. I get your willing to deal whatever ends up but setting grade is the most crucial step. Pick a benchmark to use as zero elevation and figure out whata needed. A small 1 or 2 block tall wall is simple and makes a world of difference at times. You can't change pool height later......but you can add a wall later

This is spot on, I can't stress enough that you work out all the elevations to make sure water runs away from the pool in all directions as well as any existing structures. My first purchase after I ordered the pool kit was a good laser transit...I don't know how you would ever put in a pool without one.

 

[dleonard1122]

Sorry yall I might have misled you guys. I'm absolutely taking grade seriously and spending time making sure that everything slopes appropriately. The only "imperfect" thing is that I won't be able to have a nice gradual 1/8" - 1/4" per foot slope all the way around like I would in a perfect setup. Because of the natural hill we're building on, that is going to be more like 1/2" per foot, but it will absolutely slope away from the pool in all directions.

 

[dleonard1122]

We broke ground today! The excavator I'm using is doing this job on the side, and he was able to get started today after work. We worked together to lay everything out, set our final grade, and then he got started stripping the grass and topsoil away. We only had 1 dump truck available to us today so he probably could have gone even faster. Still, we got all of the topsoil hauled away, and about 2' dug out of the deep end. We decided to leave it there for now because there's a good chance of rain tomorrow. The plan is to pick it back up on 6/24 mid-day and he wants to finish digging the deep end to the shallow end/outer shelf height. From there, he'll finish out the hopper center to full depth before working back to the shallow end and getting that to it's correct depth. This is the ordering he recommended so that he could back trucks all the way into the shallow end and keep things moving. Watching him work, I don't think I can complain about his process because he's doing a great job so far. He thinks with another half day Friday and then a full day Saturday he'll be finished. Then I'm on the hook for getting the walls up and the main drains installed .

 

[dleonard1122]

@jimmythegreek I'm jumping ahead a few steps but I was wondering if you could school me on coping. Specifically, I have cantilever coping around my pool that I want to finish with bullnose pavers, with regular concrete pavers around that. Here's what I think, tell me where I'm wrong:

- I need to backfill the overdig area behind the steel walls with 57 stone. Then, I pour a bond beam behind the wall that is the width of the bullnose paver minus the overhang into the pool (How deep should the bond beam be?).
- Do I set the top of the bond beam to be even with the top of the steel walls, or 1/4" higher to be even with the cantilever coping? I assume I want some slope away from the pool.
- Use mortar to adhere the bullnose pavers to the cantilever coping and bond beam. Any suggestions on what mortar to use?
- Behind the bond beam and bullnose pavers, prepare the sub-base for the pool deck the same as a patio (6" of modified 2A and 1" of mason sand).

 

[jimmythegreek]

I use 1x6 for coping forms and for curved pools rip plywood carefully like 1/4" or a Masonite sheet. I use fiber mesh in my mix for coping beam it's 10 bucks a yard additional. You want to mount your liner track first it can be tricky to bend the radius. Depending on the track height either metal lathe the wall cap or cement board with ceramic self tappers. Stay lower than the top of track you want to build up a little with mud. I use laticrete 254 it's expensive but can't come off. High quality thinset is good too. I make the form 1.5" less than coping. 1" overhang and a little overhang on the backside. I never want my field pavers sitting on the coping beam. NEVER use masons sand under pavers. Only concrete sand nothing else no stone dust either. ICPI has all the info you would need. Depending on soil there 6" may not be enough I am often a foot deep sometimes more. Geotextile fabric under the base is worth the couple hundred bucks....cheap insurance

 

[dleonard1122]

Depending on the track height either metal lathe the wall cap or cement board with ceramic self tappers.

Thanks for the advice, I'm following on everything except for this. Do you happen to have any photos?

 

[SunnyP2000]

I think this might help, I took jimmy's advice as well and had my contractor install strips of metal lathe with sheet metal screws and then coping. zoom in the pic to see. its been year, so far so good.

 

[dleonard1122]

That does help, thanks!

So that metal lath is laying on top of the concrete bond beam? Is it sandwiched between the liner track, or are the sheet metal screws through the liner track and into the lath?

 

[SunnyP2000]

That does help, thanks!

So that metal lath is laying on top of the concrete bond beam? Is it sandwiched between the liner track, or are the sheet metal screws through the liner track and into the lath?

i added 2 more pic before and after . metal lathe is screwed to concrete bond beam.

 

[dleonard1122]

What kind of gravel should I use to level the wall panels @jimmythegreek ? Can I get away with using some leftover Modified 2A?

 

[dleonard1122]

We got another half day (well, 3.5 hours) of excavation in this afternoon. The deep end of the pool is 95% to grade for the shelf, and we left a ramp for him to get out of the shallow end where the steps will end up going. We also marked out the hopper which is where he's going to pick up tomorrow. Tomorrow is a full day starting at 7am and hopefully finishing excavation by 4pm. They think we can get it done. I hope they're right so I can get the walls up Sunday.

 

[dleonard1122]

They got the excavation done by lunch time today. I'm sure impressed and super pleased with the crew of guys we hired. Everything is right on grade as it should be (within reason.) We also got a delivery of 10 tons of 3/4 clean stone. I plan to use that to fine tune the panels if some of them are a little low, and I'm also going to be putting some in a hole that I dig in the hopper. We're expecting 1" of rain Monday so I'm going to dig a sump pit where my main drains go, fill it with a pump and drainage rock, and do my best to keep things from washing out. Wish us luck!

 

[jimmythegreek]

You can use any gravel just tamp it. The metal lathe or cement board is for the metal wall tops. When you pour your bond beam half the coping will be sitting on the metal.....nothing to bite to. Do that first and use that height to pour the beam up to. Stay a hair low of the height of the track so you have room to mud up to the finish height, makes it easier to stay level.

 

[dleonard1122]

Well that was a lot harder than I thought it'd be. We got all of the panels in level and plumb. Unfortunately, the diagonals from my plan didn't measure up exactly (3" off in one spot ). I think I can see what's wrong and what needs to be adjusted to fix the issue, but I'm going to need to pull the brace stakes for a few of the panels which stinks. Oh well, I'd rather spend the time now getting it right than fight with trying to stretch a liner to fit or deal with wrinkles that will never smooth out. For those who have done this before me, what was 'within reason' for you on your measurements? I have no idea how much a vinyl liner stretches so I don't know if 1/4" off is fine or not.

The good news is that my excavators did a fantastic job and we had to do very minimal leveling, and everything is sitting right where it was supposed to in reference to my benchmark point where the top of my pavers will be.

We have a chance of thunderstorms tomorrow, so I dug a sump pit where one of my main drains will be and put a pump in there surrounded by stone. The entire bottom of the pool is sand so it should drain but hopefully this helps just in case. I'm really hoping I don't get much washout.

The plan is to take off work Tuesday to correct the issues with the walls, hopefully get inspected Wednesday and then pour the concrete collar Thursday or Friday.

 

[dleonard1122]

Welp, I got this text from my wife while I was at work a little bit ago. Nothing we could have done. The water is pumped out now, so I'll have to see how bad the damage is when I get home. Looks like we will probably need to re-excavate the hopper and then fill in some of the washed out areas with gravel.

 

[dleonard1122]

I took the day off of work today to keep working on the pool. My wife and I moved some panels around and got it to where all of our diagonals are withing 1/4". I feel like that's the best I'm gonna be able to get it so I'm happy with that.

We filled in the washed out areas with stone to hopefully prevent them from washing out any more.

I got the main drains plumbed in the hopper and stubbed out behind the wall. Idk why but I find plumbing work therapeutic.

First inspection on the trench tomorrow, and then I was able to get scheduled for a concrete delivery on Thursday at 3 to pour the collar. I still need to put up some bracing before now and then.

 

[KfenTx]

It's looking great! What material are you using for the bottom?

 

[jonnyd91]

Welp, I got this text from my wife while I was at work a little bit ago. Nothing we could have done. The water is pumped out now, so I'll have to see how bad the damage is when I get home. Looks like we will probably need to re-excavate the hopper and then fill in some of the washed out areas with gravel.

I feel like the right side of the pool was dug too low, unless its just the way it looks in the picture. How do you plan to handle the decking if the ground is higher than the metal wall on the right side? It seems like that grade would draw rain water right into the pool.

 

[dleonard1122]

It's looking great! What material are you using for the bottom?

I've got 57 bags of pool krete that have been staring at me menacingly every time I open the garage door.

I feel like the right side of the pool was dug too low, unless its just the way it looks in the picture. How do you plan to handle the decking if the ground is higher than the metal wall on the right side? It seems like that grade would draw rain water right into the pool.

The looks are a little deceiving, but in relation to that photo the existing grade on the right side of the pool will be even with the tops of out cantilever paver coping once that's added to the walls. Then, we plan to cut all of that existing grade back down a bit lower to slope away from the pool when we put in pavers around the coping. I anticipate the pool coping will sit 2" higher than grade on that side of the pool when all is said and done.

 

[dleonard1122]

@jimmythegreek how do you guys manage dealing with the sandy soil we have in NJ? I see you're up north a bit from where I am so curious if you see that often or not and if so, anything in particular you do to work with it?

We hit a clay layer during excavation but our subgrade is prettymuch a loamy sand. So much so that the stakes for my walls want to pull out if I tighten the turnbuckle adjustment too much.

I'm mostly worried how applying the pool base is going to go since it feels like it'll be impossible to get anything compacted there.