Check out the fancy new logo under the member name! Now that we're past the holidays I was finally in a position to make right on my long overdue donation to TFP. I think this thread is a testament to just how helpful you all are, and I'm incredibly appreciative of everyone who has stopped in to help out. For 2023 I'm really looking forward to opening the pool up and actually enjoying it this Summer.
16' x 30' Flat Kidney Owner Build
- Thread starter dleonard1122
- Start date
It's been a while since my last update, but we did more #construction lately. Today we just finished install our new mesh fence from poolfencydiy.com. Installation was fairly simple. The self latching gate was a bit finicky to get just right, but we're happy with how it turned out. We will probably keep this up until our daughter (currently 2) shows us that she can comfortably swim. It'll also be nice to have the option of putting it up if we're having little ones over aren't confident swimmers.
Aside from that, we've mainly been trying to get some grass growing. Spring seeding for grass is not my ideal time to try and grow grass, but it seems to be coming in okay, albeit very slow because of the cooler soil temps. It's going to be a chore watering it to nurse it through the summer heat, but at least it will make my regular fall seeding a little easier.
Loving the fence and the idea of keeping the fence for time other littles are there! Well done!
Yeah seeding grass is not fun but once it sets in you will love it!
Yeah seeding grass is not fun but once it sets in you will love it!
Wolfepack88
Gold Supporter
- Jun 21, 2020
- 772
- Pool Size
- 17690
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Never can be too cautious with kids around a pool. It just takes a second and nobody ever thinks they will be the ones so I applaud you on the fence!!
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Nice build and quite the endeavor, congratulations!
@dleonard1122, you mentioned that Laticrete 254 was used to attach the coping stones. After a few months and a whole winter, how would you assess the bond it has made with the top flange of the steel walls? Is there a visible hairline separation between the bottom of the mortar bed and the metal or does it look securely adhered? Every cementitious mortar (modified or unmodified) I have come across does not list metal or steel as a suitable substrate and with good reason.
I ask as I need to replace/repair some coping on our pool that is similarly constructed to yours but with some additional challenges and am unsure of which product to use. You can check out my thread for reference pictures that show the separation of the mortar from the metal,
@dleonard1122, you mentioned that Laticrete 254 was used to attach the coping stones. After a few months and a whole winter, how would you assess the bond it has made with the top flange of the steel walls? Is there a visible hairline separation between the bottom of the mortar bed and the metal or does it look securely adhered? Every cementitious mortar (modified or unmodified) I have come across does not list metal or steel as a suitable substrate and with good reason.
I ask as I need to replace/repair some coping on our pool that is similarly constructed to yours but with some additional challenges and am unsure of which product to use. You can check out my thread for reference pictures that show the separation of the mortar from the metal,
Hey TFP members,
Hoping to get some suggestions/advice regarding replacing/repairing loose natural stone coping on a steel wall vinyl liner pool. The current coping is installed in a way that seems unconventional, and using the same approach with the repair process is unlikely to bring lasting results.
As the pool was acquired with the house, there are some other unconventional methods employed by whoever was the installer, but that's a topic for another day!
For reference, we are located in a freeze-thaw climate.
Pool Details
Coping Details
- 2002 Build - Kidney Shape
- Steel Wall Vinyl Liner
- Plastic Steps
- Natural Stone on Mortar Bed
- Mortar Bed rests 50/50 on concrete (bond beam? collar?) and top of steel wall
- Diamond lath "attached" with screws to top flanges of steel wall
- Diagram attached below
Problem
Concern
- The coping is loose in many places - Repairing these segments will most likely disturb other well secured stones, so a full repair/replacement is in order.
- See attached pictures for reference.
- The coping is installed with a mortar bed applied over the concrete collar/bond beam and top flanges of the steel walls. In our situation, the concrete "collar" seems much smaller in width than what is typical. As a result, the width of the concrete is
equal toless than the width of the steel wall flange, effectively halving the surface area for achieving a good bond to the coping stones in a mortar installation.- As mortar does not form a strong bond to metal, the installer had secured diamond lath with self tapping screws to the steel wall in what I assume is an attempt to prevent the mortar bed from fracturing and crumbling due to being applied over dissimilar materials; something akin to a reinforced mortar bed. Pulling up some of the loose stones revealed that the lath is corroded and brittle, to the point where it can be easily broken without any tools and the screws no longer serving their function.
- Refer to the diagram below for a visual representation.
Extra Thoughts
- Coping installations that forego mortar and instead opt for polyurethane adhesives seem to be quite common, but it doesn't seem to be a particularly long lasting solution according to some online sources and various threads here at TFP, especially in a freeze-thaw climate.
- Some detail a hybrid approach where both mortar and adhesive is used to install coping. There is a good example of this approach on Topic 3 of this Unilock Guide.
- An interesting solution, but I have doubts about its reliability in cases where mortar thickness exceeds 1/4", as it seems to be difficult to ensure consistent contact of the adhesive bead with a gap that large.
- Adds difficulty to leveling the stones due to the fast bonding nature of polyurethane adhesives, greatly reducing the amount of time any single stone can be adjusted.
- Potential case for an epoxy mortar?
I could not find any existing threads on TFP that could be of help, so any suggestions and best practices on how to tackle this are greatly appreciated!
Thanks for the kind words.
I just checked out your thread and it looks like I went the same route as your previous installer, as I used the diamond lathe/steel mesh on mine. Only differences I can tell are that I used concrete pavers for my coping and you've got natural stone.
Additionally, my coping overhangs and rests on the liner track, so at this point I can't exactly see the mortar bed to be able to tell if there's any hairline cracking going on. This Summer need to get a silicone bead around the liner track coping to try and prevent water from getting between the two in the future. For what it's worth, I haven't found any loose coping stones so far this year.
I've got an idea for your coping, but I'll comment in your thread just to keep that info in one place.