16' x 30' Flat Kidney Owner Build

[dleonard1122]

After seeing the great work that @duckcmmndr and @jastudee did and are doing with their DIY pool installs, I figured it might be helpful for me to make a post of my own to track my progress and ask any questions as we go through this process. On April 15th, 2022 we ordered a 16'x30' Flat Kidney pool kit from Royal Swimming Pools.

- 42" tall steel walls
- 6' deep end
- Cantilever coping (pool deck will be EP Henry pavers)
- 8' radius sit in step
- Pentair Superflo VST pump
- Pentair 320sqf Clean and Clear Cartridge Filter
- Pentair IC20 IC40 Salt Chlorinator
- 2 drains, 2 skimmers, 3 returns

Here is roughly where the pool will be going. I can't move it much more to the right because that is where our well is.

We're hoping this pool location gets enough sunlight. This photo was taken at 3 pm in late September, and our neighbors trees are just starting to shade over the area. We had what branches we could pruned, so hopefully this year there will be a little be less shade, and what shade there is will be less severe and more filtered. With this photo you can also see the shed where the pump, filter, and SWG are going.

I have secured contractors to do the following work:
- Electrician is installing a 50A sub panel in shed that is located close to the pool location.
- Fence Contractor is swapping around the opening orientation of a gate we have, as well as repairing a few sections.
- Arborist pruned some overhanging limbs (as well as other non-pool related work)
- Excavator is awaiting arrival of pool kit to schedule ground breaking

My rough budget for this project currently looks like this:
- Pool Kit - $14.5k
- 55 bags pool base - $1.5k
- Concrete for bond beam - $2k
- Excavation Sub - $3.5k
- Electric Sub - $2.5k
- Fence Sub - $.75k
- Arborist Sub - $1.5k
- Permits - $1k
- Pavers - $5k
Total: $32.5k

I know there will be additional costs that I'm not factoring in such as plumbing and electrical supplies, but for a ballpark I think this was fine. We were originally quoted $45k for a smaller, simpler, and more basic pool installed by a local pool company and they wouldn't be able to install it until June 2023.

My current plan:
- Take off a week of work to get the initial stages completed.
- Excavator Breaks ground for rough excavation
- Finish excavation manually with a shovel and a helping hand or two.
- Set up the walls, getting them as straight and plumb as necessary
- Rough install the two drains at the bottom of the hopper, and run plumbing under panel walls
- Verify walls are straight, plumb, and all dimensions are within specification.
- Get concrete truck with pump truck to pour bond beam
- Finish the rest of the rough plumbing (skimmers, returns, and plumbing to/from pump house)
- Pool Krete the bottom (I'm actually kind of dreading this part, and wondering if I should just try to hire it out)
- Hang liner
- Start filling with water and partially backfill
- Finish plumbing with any liner cutouts needed.
- Wire up electrical to the pumps and run bonding wire around pool, tying in steps and ladder
- Finish backfill
- Take a break, swim in semi-finished pool, stare at pallets full of pavers, contemplate life choices
- Install pavers for pool decking (may hire this part out if budget holds up and/or my back does not)

Some things I still need to do:
- Permits (currently working through this now)
- Purchase a sump pump of sorts (any recommendations?) I'm sure It'll rain at some point and even if it doesn't, I'd rather have this and not need it.

As of today, we have received our liner, and the bulk of the rest of the kit is en-route on a freight truck somewhere. I'll need to rent a forklift for a day (probably next week) to unload it all.

 

[Texas Splash]

You are taking-on quite a project. Hope all goes well for you. We look forward to your updates. Keep those pics coming. Good luck!

 

[Newdude]

Every last build thread comes in handy for you, and for future members. DIY threads are extra special as there is no CG to squeeze roadblock fixes from. So THANKS.


#1 on pic recurrence.

 

[Lanzz]

This is going to be a great project - can't wait to see it as it progresses. I have a similar pool design and we really enjoy it - big enough to swim in plus just enough shallow end for kids. You and your family will love it.

 

[jastudee]

You’re going to do great! Excited to follow along!

You’re plan is very well detailed and thorough.

As far as the pumps are concerned. I just got a simple Ace 1/6 HP pump for like $50. It’s worked perfectly for the exact scenario your describing. The other trick that someone tipped me off to was a 5 gallon bucket with a bunch of holes drilled along the bottom of the sidewall as low as you can get them. This prevents the pump from just sucking mud.

With that being said, I just hope you get lucky and don’t have to battle rain! I’d probably be near the finish line if it wasn’t for the spring we’ve had.

 

[duckcmmndr]

You are off to a great start, planning is half the battle and you look like you have a good grasp on that. Keep that same detail oriented mentality when actually doing each of the task required. I normally do "task X" four or five times over in my head before I actually do it all the while thinking about "task x+1" and "task x+2" and how they tie in, I don't like surprises.

There is no way I would have done the pool krete for what I paid to have it done (don't ask, I will not tell). The hardest part of hiring someone to do it is getting a phone number of someone that actually does it and then scheduling. Pool contractors don't like to share their laborers with homeowners that are DYI'ing, ask me how I know. I like to never got the phone number of the guy I wanted to do it...but once I did he was happy to do it. Just had to work on his timeline, which ended up not being a big deal.

You will need a trash pump of some kind to pump out the water once it rains, and it will rain...it's almost a guarantee. Your local hardware/farm store should have an electric trash pump for less than $100 that will do the trick. As @jastudee suggested...the bucket with holes trick does help with the mud.

Good luck, take lots of pictures and post them.

 

[duckcmmndr]

Thanks! I reviewed your build thread and that was mostly what I gathered. I'm contracting out the excavation so I'm hoping to follow a similar timeline as your where I can take a week off of work, break ground on a Monday, and ideally get that bond beam poured before going back to work the following Monday. Our pool is going to be a bit smaller (16x30) so I figure it might be possible.

One thing I'm thinking of now is the order of operations, which I think might also parallel yours. I need to install and plumb my drains prior to pouring the concrete collar (I don't think I saw that your pool had drains.) So, I'll probably tackle that immediately after excavation and getting the walls up. Then concrete collar. I'll probably do the pool base prior to backfilling and like you did too though because we're doing pavers and it'll take some time until we can get that all done correctly.

Did you backfill with excavated soil or did you only use gravel to backfill?

EDIT: I'm going to make my own post. Apologies to @jastudee and I hope you'll make your way over to my post to share all of your lessons learned in the future.

I added this from the other thread...since you have your own now.

I choose not to put in main drains, and have not regretted that decision. If I had put them...I was advised to set them in concrete rather than pool krete. The suggestion was to form up the hopper bottom and pour it the same time you are pouring the bond beam. I liked the idea because you could set the top of the forms based off of the top of the walls and it would establish the correct depth and give you something to work off of when putting the pool krete on the hopper walls. I believe it was @jimmythegreek that suggested this. Lots of people have issue with leaking main drains and I can see if they were set in concrete rather than pool krete...they would have far less tendency to shifting/moving/settling. ETA...here is a link to the suggestion with pics to follow. Main Drain Install

I did not use soil for backfill. I did kick enough topsoil off on top of the bond beam so that my plumbing was not sitting directly on the concrete. I did not have to do much here as the heavy rain that I got after pouring the bond beam washed dirt out over the bond beam. I used the recommend stone for backfill, it's #57 stone I believe. It's stones with no dirt/dust that are 1/2"-1" in size. It "self compacts" as you put it in...so it should not settle. It also aids in drainage.

 

[gingrbredman]

I love a detailed plan, especially a DIY one!

Just looking, you mention a IC20 SWCG. What is the expected gallons of the pool?

No mention of automation, but if you were looking at Pentair, the Intellicenter with the IC40 bundle has been a go to for many here. A ic20 SWCG would be "OK" for a 10k gallon pool, but guessing yours will be a little more than that, and at least a IC40 would probably be a better fit.

Looking forward to following along on this one.

 

[KfenTx]

You are off to a great start, planning is half the battle and you look like you have a good grasp on that. Keep that same detail oriented mentality when actually doing each of the task required. I normally do "task X" four or five times over in my head before I actually do it all the while thinking about "task x+1" and "task x+2" and how they tie in, I don't like surprises.

There is no way I would have done the pool krete for what I paid to have it done (don't ask, I will not tell). The hardest part of hiring someone to do it is getting a phone number of someone that actually does it and then scheduling. Pool contractors don't like to share their laborers with homeowners that are DYI'ing, ask me how I know. I like to never got the phone number of the guy I wanted to do it...but once I did he was happy to do it. Just had to work on his timeline, which ended up not being a big deal.

You will need a trash pump of some kind to pump out the water once it rains, and it will rain...it's almost a guarantee. Your local hardware/farm store should have an electric trash pump for less than $100 that will do the trick. As @jastudee suggested...the bucket with holes trick does help with the mud.

Good luck, take lots of pictures and post them.

Agree with the difficulties in finding somebody to do the pool krete. I contacted tons of companies and most didn't even bother replying or just straight up said they don't do that. I did finally get one pool renovation company to quote it. They're going to finish the dirt work and apply the pool krete for $4200 (labor only). It's more than I had hoped but when only one person will even quote, there's not much to be done.

 

[dleonard1122]

I added this from the other thread...since you have your own now.

I choose not to put in main drains, and have not regretted that decision. If I had put them...I was advised to set them in concrete rather than pool krete. The suggestion was to form up the hopper bottom and pour it the same time you are pouring the bond beam. I liked the idea because you could set the top of the forms based off of the top of the walls and it would establish the correct depth and give you something to work off of when putting the pool krete on the hopper walls. I believe it was @jimmythegreek that suggested this. Lots of people have issue with leaking main drains and I can see if they were set in concrete rather than pool krete...they would have far less tendency to shifting/moving/settling. ETA...here is a link to the suggestion with pics to follow. Main Drain Install

I did not use soil for backfill. I did kick enough topsoil off on top of the bond beam so that my plumbing was not sitting directly on the concrete. I did not have to do much here as the heavy rain that I got after pouring the bond beam washed dirt out over the bond beam. I used the recommend stone for backfill, it's #57 stone I believe. It's stones with no dirt/dust that are 1/2"-1" in size. It "self compacts" as you put it in...so it should not settle. It also aids in drainage.

Pouring the entire hopper bottom in concrete is really interesting and not something I had thought of. I planned on just doing a small rectangle form to encase the drains, but I'll think about doing the entire bottom and what that might look like. Unfortunately I already ordered my pool base and I don't think that is returnable, so I'll have to see about that.

As I get closer and closer to breaking ground I've been slowly realizing there are a few more things that I didn't account for that I'll want to buy, and backfill gravel is one of them. Of course my excavator is happy to leave the excavated soil to backfill but especially with me doing pavers around the pool deck I probably should go with gravel to avoid the settling. What did you use to move around the gravel? I was thinking renting a mini skid steer with a bucket like a tracked dingo would be sufficient. I'm not trying to move all of that with a shovel and a wheel barrow lol.

 

[dleonard1122]

I love a detailed plan, especially a DIY one!

Just looking, you mention a IC20 SWCG. What is the expected gallons of the pool?

No mention of automation, but if you were looking at Pentair, the Intellicenter with the IC40 bundle has been a go to for many here. A ic20 SWCG would be "OK" for a 10k gallon pool, but guessing yours will be a little more than that, and at least a IC40 would probably be a better fit.

Looking forward to following along on this one.

I kind of had this same feeling, so I reached out to my salesman and it turns out that I was low on my 10k gallon estimate and that it's actually going to be closer to 15k gallon. Unfortunately since the kit has already shipped it's too late to just swap out the IC20 for the IC40, but he's going to put together a quote for an IC40 for me at kit pricing and then I can just return the IC20.

 

[dleonard1122]

Agree with the difficulties in finding somebody to do the pool krete. I contacted tons of companies and most didn't even bother replying or just straight up said they don't do that. I did finally get one pool renovation company to quote it. They're going to finish the dirt work and apply the pool krete for $4200 (labor only). It's more than I had hoped but when only one person will even quote, there's not much to be done.

I'll poke around locally a little to see if I can find anything. $4,200 does seem steep, but even without having done it I'm sure it's going to be a ridiculously labor intensive job so I guess that's in the ballpark of a fair price.

 

[SEiowaClone]

Pouring the entire hopper bottom in concrete is really interesting and not something I had thought of. I planned on just doing a small rectangle form to encase the drains, but I'll think about doing the entire bottom and what that might look like. Unfortunately I already ordered my pool base and I don't think that is returnable, so I'll have to see about that.

I did the entire bottom out of concrete. Poured the level parts of the deep and shallow ends with the bond beam, came back and poured the transition between the shallow and deep end all with ready mix from a truck, then did the deep end side walls by hand with 60# bag mix. It was as you stated above "ridiculously labor intensive".

Good luck with your build!

 

[duckcmmndr]

Pouring the entire hopper bottom in concrete is really interesting and not something I had thought of. I planned on just doing a small rectangle form to encase the drains, but I'll think about doing the entire bottom and what that might look like. Unfortunately I already ordered my pool base and I don't think that is returnable, so I'll have to see about that.

As I get closer and closer to breaking ground I've been slowly realizing there are a few more things that I didn't account for that I'll want to buy, and backfill gravel is one of them. Of course my excavator is happy to leave the excavated soil to backfill but especially with me doing pavers around the pool deck I probably should go with gravel to avoid the settling. What did you use to move around the gravel? I was thinking renting a mini skid steer with a bucket like a tracked dingo would be sufficient. I'm not trying to move all of that with a shovel and a wheel barrow lol.

You will probably use more pool base than you think...if you over dig in a few places it will take more. You should try to find a place locally that you can buy a few bags if you need to before you start.

It may just be the pictures...but it looks like your yard slopes, if so you can use some of the dug out soil to build up the surrounding ground on the low side and taper off gradually to yard. You can do it in thin 2-3" lifts and compact between.

I was very fortunate that my father-in-law owns a 40hp Kubota tractor with a loader...so that is what I used for the gravel and a ton of other stuff. You will want to rent a skid steer or tractor to move the gravel. Around here the gravel is kinda pricy, but it has to be trucked a fair ways. Your results may vary, I figured $1K would be plenty for the gravel and it was half that again....but I also had to fill up an 18' wide sun shelf and tanning ledge. That took a whole load or more by itself. When backfilling the walls with the gravel you will want to dump it out of the bucket slowly so you don't put too much pressure and bow the walls out. This is less of an issue if you have steel walls. I have polymer walls and figured out quickly not to just dump a whole bucket full in the ditch all at once.

 

[dleonard1122]

You will probably use more pool base than you think...if you over dig in a few places it will take more. You should try to find a place locally that you can buy a few bags if you need to before you start.

It may just be the pictures...but it looks like your yard slopes, if so you can use some of the dug out soil to build up the surrounding ground on the low side and taper off gradually to yard. You can do it in thin 2-3" lifts and compact between.

I was very fortunate that my father-in-law owns a 40hp Kubota tractor with a loader...so that is what I used for the gravel and a ton of other stuff. You will want to rent a skid steer or tractor to move the gravel. Around here the gravel is kinda pricy, but it has to be trucked a fair ways. Your results may vary, I figured $1K would be plenty for the gravel and it was half that again....but I also had to fill up an 18' wide sun shelf and tanning ledge. That took a whole load or more by itself. When backfilling the walls with the gravel you will want to dump it out of the bucket slowly so you don't put too much pressure and bow the walls out. This is less of an issue if you have steel walls. I have polymer walls and figured out quickly not to just dump a whole bucket full in the ditch all at once.

My yard definitely slopes, but not so much that I'll need a retaining wall with the pool orientation we chose. I definitely had planned to use the excavated soil to regrade a bit.

 

[jimmythegreek]

That's not a horrible price for a kidney shape in today's market. You need stone, a machine, and some labor to make it move faster. With manual labor only it will take forever. Break into 3 parts. The pool build with liner hung. All the plumbing electric and backfill. Then the coping and pavers. Without the right tools it's very hard to do it all and even then it's hard

 

[dleonard1122]

To obtain a pool permit in my township I have to provide:

• (2) copies of sealed pool plans signed by NJ approved architect
  • Royal Pools provided the plans with the kit, I sent them to an architect for the seal and signature - $345
• Electrical subcode permit form
• (2) copies of electrical diagram/sketch
• Plumbing subcode permit form
• (2) copies of plumbing diagram/sketch
  • Would be more difficult if I had to run a gas line for a heater, but my diagram will be very basic
• Building subcode permit form
• (2) copies of site plan (taking existing copy of property survey and sketching in proposed pool location, paver patio extension)
• (2) copies of existing fence information including fence latching mechanism
• (2) copies of spec sheet on filter and pump
• zoning form

 

[dleonard1122]

One question I have for folks who have been down this path before is how you went about setting the final, finished grade of the pool deck? This feels crucially important, but so far I've just kind of been eyeballing the slope around my site and thinking about it in my head. My initial thought is to set the top of my pool deck (top of pool + coping + paver height) to be at the same grade as the pad inside the shed that the pump and filter will be installed on. If you look in the photo above it kind of shows how the entire yard slopes gradually down from the shed, so my thought would be that between the shed and the pool I could create a small swale (not really a swale, but just strategic sloping) with pavers that would route any surface rainwater around the pool and then gravity would do its thing and continue to pull it away from the pool. I estimate there's a roughly 2"-3" drop between the middle of the pool site and the top of the shed's concrete pad. I remember reading in some reading from Royal or Pool Warehouse that your finished pool height should be 2" above surrounding area, but I assume that means when you factor in the thickness of your coping and deck material as well?

 

[dleonard1122]

Ugh, I think I might have stumbled on another hiccup in my order. Can anyone comment on how the Pump and SWG I ordered will integrate? This feels similar to what @gingrbredman mentioned above.

Here's what I ordered:

1. 342002 1.5HP 115/230V Superflo VST Variable Speed Pump
2. 110/220V Intellichlor Power Center
3. IC40 Power Cell

I had found some threads from a while ago suggesting that the pump I have will be a pain to integrate and that I would be better off with the Intelliflow pump?

EDIT: I suppose it'd be helpful if I described my goals for my system. I'm not (currently) looking for a whole lot of automation. I don't need cell phone conncection or anything like that. I'm just trying to make sure that I'll be able to set my pump to run at a certain speed for certain periods of the day, and that the SWG will respond with running accordingly.

 

[KfenTx]

One question I have for folks who have been down this path before is how you went about setting the final, finished grade of the pool deck? This feels crucially important, but so far I've just kind of been eyeballing the slope around my site and thinking about it in my head. My initial thought is to set the top of my pool deck (top of pool + coping + paver height) to be at the same grade as the pad inside the shed that the pump and filter will be installed on. If you look in the photo above it kind of shows how the entire yard slopes gradually down from the shed, so my thought would be that between the shed and the pool I could create a small swale (not really a swale, but just strategic sloping) with pavers that would route any surface rainwater around the pool and then gravity would do its thing and continue to pull it away from the pool. I estimate there's a roughly 2"-3" drop between the middle of the pool site and the top of the shed's concrete pad. I remember reading in some reading from Royal or Pool Warehouse that your finished pool height should be 2" above surrounding area, but I assume that means when you factor in the thickness of your coping and deck material as well?

We actually did a little bit of a poor job with this by not accounting for the height of the coping and concrete to be honest. (We're doing cantilever coping with a concrete deck). Our coping is maybe 3-4" but we're also doing an autocover which probably changes the coping height. Our concrete forms are probably a good 4" up from that so in all the finished grade will be 6-8" above the walls and we did not dig deep enough to account for that much. We're going to end up with the pool being a few inches higher than our current deck which is a bit unfortunate since they're so close in a spot but at least nothing will ever wash into the pool?

I'd really suggest measuring your coping and potential stone to add it to the dig depth (at least most of it).