New Noises Since Opening Pool...

[Earlsfat]

So since starting up the pool for the year (took out a problematic broken sediment filter) I noticed there are a couple new noises:

One sounds like air bleeding into the system when the pump shuts off. I can't find any leaks while its running, nor can I see one when it's making the noise, the pool doesn't seem to be losing any water. The noise only lasts for about 5-6 seconds... the pump seems to not lose its prime because the pump reservoir is still visibly full.

Since the pump reservoir is full when it is shut off I'm assuming that where ever this noise is coming from is not in the suction side. I've noticed a couple of the Jandy valves have cracks around the screws... I'm guessing these cracks are letting air in and the noise is just the loss of issue allowing the water to settle after the valve and is the water going back into the pool. Sound right?

The second one, when the pump is running it's noisy and the reservoir has bubbles in it - and the returns are constantly spitting small amounts of bubbles of air. The noise while the pump is running changes depending on how the valves are set... Which makes no sense to me, but again, I'm thinking the culprit is the Jandy valves allowing air to bleed into the system?


I just bought a SWG system and if I have to do any significant replumbing I'd like to get that resolved before replacing all the valves, etc.

Water so far is excellent... This is just a plumbing issue as far as I know.

 

[Richard320]

My suspicion is that you have a suction side air leak.

The air ends up in the filter and gets compressed by the water coming in from the pump. When the pump shuts off, the air bubble expands and pushes water out.

Open the filter air bleed while the pump is running until it stops hissing and starts spitting water. Close it. Then shut the pump off. Did the noise stop?

Air entering the system is on the suction side. The pressure side would be spitting out water if there were a leak. So start easy, looking for a vortex in the skimmer caused by low water or a sticking weir. Then check pump basket lid gasket and pump drain plug gasket. Then start checking all the connections and valves on the suction side. Use the search box for "Air Leaks" or "Suction side leak" or "Leak Detection" and you'll find hundreds and hundreds of threads that will discuss the techniques.

 

[mas985]

Can you tell where the sound is coming from? Besides suction side leaks, leaks can also occur on the pressure side that leak air in when the pump is off but not leak water out when the pump is on. Leaks are not always symmetrical. Filters are usually the source.

 

[Earlsfat]

I'm going to try the suction leak tests and get my helpers out tonight to see if we can figure out where the noises are coming from, and I'll post back.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Earlsfat]

So... I'm pretty sure the pressure side air leak is the DE filter, at least that's where the noise is coming from. I'm going to take it apart and clean it, lube up the o-ring and see if that solves that issue. The only thing that confuses me with this is that it's not like it's leaking to a logical point (ie to the seal at the middle)... it only "leaks" for a few seconds and you would think it would be longer if it was dropping 10-20 gallons back into the pool. Which makes me wonder if it's the pressure gauge at the top and there's a check valve someplace stopping it from "leaking" more. Weird.

The suction side leak is different. I tried pouring water over the valves with no change in the bubbles. I did find that if I isolate the main (deep end) drain the pump still draws water, but also sucks in a ton of air. Doesn't completely lose prime, but the reservoir stays slightly over half full. As soon as you add back in the skimmers or spa drain the air goes away and you get a full reservoir... which... considering there's only about 2'-3' of pipe above ground is making me very nervous that I have a leak in the underground main drain line someplace. With my luck it'll be under the pool and I'm back at a tannerite treatment, lol. I can't see that the pool is actually losing water right now, but with all the rain we've been getting maybe I just can't tell... I'm bewildered.

I also noticed that I get a similar pump starvation issue if I put the return that goes to the mechanical robot (not sure what the right term is for that) which also happens to be the same line that the sediment filter I removed was on... which has always had problems. Thing is, this is on the pressure side of the pump, so I have no idea how the pump would starve... unless the underground pipes don't connect to what I think they do.


I want to replumb the whole thing to move the equipment a little farther away from the property line and build a pergola / pool house of sorts to protect it, right now it's all sitting on dirt / stone and uneven and making me think I may have way more than one issue here.

Would I be taking the wrong approach to this suction leak by gutting the entire above ground plumbing set up, digging up and replacing the main drain and that one pool return and redoing the whole thing with new valves / eliminating half the joints, etc? I'm thinking that would give me the leeway to make sure all the joints are correct, move the equipment to a better location and allow me to deal with this once and never look back (as we all would). I'm guessing if I do go this route I should chlorinate the snot out first of it to avoid any contamination issues?

 

[mas985]

The only thing that confuses me with this is that it's not like it's leaking to a logical point (ie to the seal at the middle)... it only "leaks" for a few seconds and you would think it would be longer if it was dropping 10-20 gallons back into the pool. Which makes me wonder if it's the pressure gauge at the top and there's a check valve someplace stopping it from "leaking" more. Weird.

As the filter drains and fills with air, the suction in the filter reduces so is less likely to pull in more air. But you may be right about the location of the leak being close to the top. You can try some Teflon tape to help seal the threads.

he suction side leak is different. I tried pouring water over the valves with no change in the bubbles. I did find that if I isolate the main (deep end) drain the pump still draws water, but also sucks in a ton of air.

When you isolate the MD, the suction head goes up which means the pressure in the pump basket goes down so it is more likely to have an air leak. It is much harder to seal a leak the lower the pressure is in the pump basket. Likely locations are the pump lid and drain plugs.

I also noticed that I get a similar pump starvation issue if I put the return that goes to the mechanical robot (not sure what the right term is for that) which also happens to be the same line that the sediment filter I removed was on... which has always had problems. Thing is, this is on the pressure side of the pump, so I have no idea how the pump would starve... unless the underground pipes don't connect to what I think they do.

Again, these pipes are usually smaller so suction head increases when isolating a cleaner line and more likely to pull in air.

Before changing any plumbing, lube the pump lid and drain plugs first to see if that helps.

Also, when isolating the MD and/or cleaner line, how does the filter pressure change?