Plumber and I are arguing. Need quick answer

[Gooserider]

The nature of the stream out of the jets is a function of the pressure feeding them, and the size / shape of the outlet nozzle... ANY stream of liquid will break up sooner or later due to gravity and air resistance. I seriously doubt that changing your feed line would have ANY impact on the way the jets break up.

The variation in the breakup pattern you are seeing I would expect to be due to either a slight variation in your pump pressure (not sure why that would be happening) or, more likely changes in the winds and air currents in the area of the jets. This doesn't have to be a big change, so you might not notice it, and it can even be a "micro-climate" issue caused by the jets themselves...

As to the valves, you have limited options in PVC, but a ball valve is really not your best choice for flow regulation. Ball valves are intended more as "digital" open / closed type applications. IIRC, the best valve type for flow regulation is a gate or globe style, but I forget off hand. Wikipedia has a decent article on valves, with a good description of the different sorts and their application. The big question though is what types are available in PVC - I don't recall ever seeing anything other than ball valves at my local hardware store, but that isn't very definitive...

Gooserider

 

[orthofish]

Those white ones on the far right turn very easily. Just don't knwo if they hold up as well. I wish they would have used them throughout. I might just change them out myself.

 

[mas985]

No Mark, The one closest on the left is the bigger diameter fitting , the one on the far right is a smaller diameter, and the one on the right closest is the triple spray. I have 5 different fittings.

So what is the diameter of the jet orifice (i.e. where the water exits)? Also, what is your filter pressure?

I would also agree that changing the feed pipe is going to have little to no effect unless you change all of the pipe. A short section of smaller pipe is really not going to do much.

One thing you might want to do is to remove the nozzles and flush out the lines to make sure there is nothing stuck behind the nozzles.

However, I think the problem is really with setting the correct flow rate for the given nozzle size. You may not have enough flow rate for the nozzle size. If you turn up the flow rate, does the stream look better?

 

[orthofish]

I'm not sure if it looks better or not cause it shot across the pool out in the yard. Kinda freaked me out I just don't understand why Pentair and Jandy both recommend 1/2-3/4" just before the jet. One would think they would have a reason for it. :?: Maybe I read too much :study: They only require 5-7 GPM and each has its own line. My pump pushes 90GPM on high I think and 45 on low.(low speed not programmed in yet)

 

[orthofish]

No Mark, The one closest on the left is the bigger diameter fitting , the one on the far right is a smaller diameter, and the one on the right closest is the triple spray. I have 5 different fittings.

So what is the diameter of the jet orifice (i.e. where the water exits)? Also, what is your filter pressure?
They vary. I think like 3/4,5/8, maybe smaller. Not sure, as I am at work. There is one the sprays a mist, and then the one with 3 streams at once.

I would also agree that changing the feed pipe is going to have little to no effect unless you change all of the pipe. A short section of smaller pipe is really not going to do much.
]

One thing you might want to do is to remove the nozzles and flush out the lines to make sure there is nothing stuck behind the nozzles.
They have a fiber filter in the end. I'll check to make sure they aren't clogged.

However, I think the problem is really with setting the correct flow rate for the given nozzle size. You may not have enough flow rate for the nozzle size. If you turn up the flow rate, does the stream look better?

 

[launboy]

Those white ones on the far right turn very easily. Just don't know if they hold up as well.

I hear you there! When I was in Lowes getting fittings for my project I was going to use the ball valves with red handles, but when I couldn't turn them in the store I figured that was no good. Then I turned a Union Valve and my decision was made. The reason(or part of it) that they turn so easily is the union. The tighter you turn that ring, the more pressure you put on the seal of the ball in the valve. I have mine tightened as much as I could get it by hand(pretty tight) they turn easily, but don't leak a drop.

I'm not sure how durable the handle will turn out to be. It looks kind of cheap to me. Though I've had two of them out baking in the sun all summer. The handles have yellowed a bit but the body is still as white as new. This year I'm painting all of my PVC Black to avoid UV deterioration and gain a little extra solar heat. I would have finished today but ran out of spray paint. I'm hoping the black paint will prevent and future deterioration of those plastic handles in the future.

Adam

 

[orthofish]

Thanks Adam

 

[Gooserider]

Those white ones on the far right turn very easily. Just don't know if they hold up as well.

I hear you there! When I was in Lowes getting fittings for my project I was going to use the ball valves with red handles, but when I couldn't turn them in the store I figured that was no good. Then I turned a Union Valve and my decision was made. The reason(or part of it) that they turn so easily is the union. The tighter you turn that ring, the more pressure you put on the seal of the ball in the valve. I have mine tightened as much as I could get it by hand(pretty tight) they turn easily, but don't leak a drop.

I'm not sure how durable the handle will turn out to be. It looks kind of cheap to me. Though I've had two of them out baking in the sun all summer. The handles have yellowed a bit but the body is still as white as new. This year I'm painting all of my PVC Black to avoid UV deterioration and gain a little extra solar heat. I would have finished today but ran out of spray paint. I'm hoping the black paint will prevent and future deterioration of those plastic handles in the future.

Adam

I agree that it is best to keep PVC out of the sun, as it will deteriorate over time (like most plastics) but I'd be cautious about painting it... Lots of plastics can have bad reactions to paint and the solvents in it, with embrittlement resulting... I would avoid using any paint that wasn't specifically labeled as being PVC compatible.

Gooserider

 

[JasonLion]

Krylon Fusion for Plastic is a good paint for use with PVC.

 

[orthofish]

Update. I held a gun to their head and forced them to reduce the plumbing to 3/4" just before the jets. Believe me, in Tn. that is quite possible :lol:
Finally read where the reason is to keep my pump from working so hard supplying water to them.
Guess what???? The streams do look more uniform
Thanks for all y'alls advice an help.

 

[mas985]

After thinking about this some more, what the 3/4" pipe might have accomplished is a reduction in turbulance feeding the fitting. This then may make the stream look a lot better.

I would interested in reading where is says the pump would work harder because this should not have much effect on the pump.

 

[orthofish]

http://www.pentairpool.com/products/products3.php?id=36
Mark, this is where I read about the low water pressure and the pump. I probably didn't understand that, and just made it satisfy my curiosity about the 3/4" pipe :? :lol: But would the pump have to work less feeding a 3/4" pipe vs a 1.5" pipe :?:

 

[mas985]

Is this the quote you are refering to:

Low water pressure requirement for minimum impact on pump performance

I think what they mean by this is that the lower pressure means higher flow rates which results in better pump performance. But that really only applies when you have a dedicated pump for the jets. If you are bypassing most of the water like your case, it really has little effect on the pump.

In the installation instructions, Pentair says that any size feed pipe can be used but they recommend 1/2" pipe. This then feeds a bushing for 1 1/2" slip fitting of the jet body. The jet is rated at 3.5 GPM for 15 feet of head so there is very little pressure loss in the feed pipe at 3.5 GPM. I suspect the reason for the 1/2" pipe is to help create a laminar flow through the nozzle. This is what keeps the water together and not break apart. Any turbulence in the water will help break up the stream.

Also, since you have 4 jets, that is 14 GPM total for all jets. Given your pump size and the rest of the plumbing, my guess is that the pump is delivering close to 90 GPM total so this is why you have to close off the valve so much. Only 15% of the water is going toward all four jets.

 

[orthofish]

Thanks for the explaination Mark. Surprisingly, I understood it Even with the pump on low speed, the jets get to the pool, but I have to open all of them wide open. And they all have their own line. :-D