No return to spa / no spillover in pool mode. Valve position?

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Mike_d_s

Member
Apr 5, 2021
11
Katy, TX
My neighbor asked me to come take a look at this pool this morning as he was having some issues with weird flow. I hadn't seen his equipment setup before so when I first got there I asked him to cycle everything a few times so I could see how everything worked so I missed actually seeing what the starting point was for valve positions. The pool is about 2 years old and it looks like an Omnilogic controller (which I'm not familiar with) controlling to main GVA24 valves for suction and return. They have some other water features, etc but for the primarily loop is one VS pump and the two valves (suction and return). He also has the pop up cleaning jets.

Observations:
1. Neighbor says that up 1-2 days ago in pool mode and high speed everything seemed fine. The cleaner pop ups were up, spa was spilling over, and the skimmers had good flow. Today he was seeing weird issues with no/low skimmer flow and no spillover and the cleaners weren't popping up.
2. After asking him to cycle everything a few times and the valve positions seemed to line up with pool/pool in pool mode and spa/spa in spa mode with the exception of no spillover which is my main question.
3. In pool mode he told me he normally has flow to the spa and spillover. Today in pool mode the GVA24 for the spa return is closed off 100% and there's zero flow to the spa jets.
4. In a weird issue, after I had a chance to look at everything and walked back to my house he called me back with no skimmer flow. I came back over and the suction valve was in spa position though the controller said it was in pool mode. I had him switch back and forth a few times and it stayed reversed. It was definitely not reversed 15 minutes before and my buddy said he didn't mess with the switch on the valve. I reversed it with the switch and had him cycle it a few times and now it seems fine again but is weird behavior.

My main question is about the return valve position/programming. In order to get spillover he should have some flow to the spa jets but in pool mode the valve is closed 100%. I'm definitely sure my buddy didn't physically mess with the valve so I can rule out human error. Since I'm not familiar with the new controllers and the Omnilogic specifically my questions are:
1. Shouldn't the return valve be partially open to let flow into the spa jets in pool mode so that the spa circulates and spills over? Or is there some fancy check valve or pressure balance somewhere that I'm missing?
2. If its valve position, do the new controllers have some programming to handle this or is it done with the valve microswitch position?
3. If its just the valve and normal cam/microswitches for stop position like I'm familiar with then is this a common issue with the GVAs? I guess its possible it's been getting bad for a while and he just didn't notice as its been maintenance season until now but he swears the spillover flow seemed fine until a few days ago. If it is just the valve cam that needs adjustment/replacement what's typical split? Open 45 deg, 25 deg?

He usually does his own maintenance and doesn't have a regular pool guy. So I'd like to help him get it sorted short of having to figure out the controller programming.

Thanks,
Mike
 
He may have a separate spa makeup line that feeds the spa in POOL mode.

First thing I would do is check the filter PSI and clean the filter.

Then have him join TFP and post pics of his equipment pad.
 
ajw22 said:
He may have a separate spa makeup line that feeds the spa in POOL mode.

First thing I would do is check the filter PSI and clean the filter.

Then have him join TFP and post pics of his equipment pad.
Click to expand...
He's not the most computer savvy guy, so I'll ask him to join but it may be me posting the pics.

I can say 90% its not a filter problem as he is using a freshly cleaned set of filters. His filter pressure gauge is acting up and reading 30 at zero psi. We pulled the filters and ran the pump without filters for a minute to see if the gauge seemed to be shot all the way, just a bad zero, or a problem with the filters. The zero just seemed off and the backpressure readings seemed normal-ish otherwise if you just subtract 30 psi. With the filters back in he only had a few psi of backpressure so I'm pretty sure its not clogged filters.

If there's a separate spa makeup line I'm assuming that will run all the way back to the equipment pad? I'll go talk to him about joining and to get a pic, but the quick and dirty diagram below shows what he has. Note that there are a few other items in the box I left out like the heater bypass, heater backflow check valve, etc but nothing that upstream of the return valve that would seem like it had anything to do with the spa.

1713820779291.png
 
That's kind of what I was thinking but I don't see anything like that and there's not an additional valve as far as I can tell. Essentially its pump to GVA24 then a T with one side to the spa and one to the pool. I told him to call his builder and ask also. He's been busy since I posted so I haven't been able to ask him yet about that.

If there is no makeup is the standard to adjust the cams on the valve so that it leaves the spa side open just a bit? I guess its possible that the cam lobe slipped. On the older actuators I'm used to a bad microswitch lets the valve just continue rotating continuously. Since it stops I'm assuming the microswitch is working.
 
New pics.

Ok, after going back over and taking a few pics, here's a correction to my original post as there is an additional valve downstream of the pool return. You can see in the pics that from the GVA24 automation valve the spa side is a straight run but the pool side splits and has a labeled pool return and then another unlabeled leg with manual valve and check valve off the pool return side. My buddy claims he has never touched this valve and it was set to fully closed when I looked at it yesterday. So while I guess this could be spa makeup, if I believe that he has never touched it it doesn't fit the symptoms that he had some flow to the spa in pool mode and now has zero.

I did some reading on the omnilogic system and my buddy definitely has a "spillover" option on his controller. From my reading spillover is 100% suction from the pool and then 100% return to the spa. Seems like normal use is to refresh the spa a few times a day from the controller automation. According to my neighbor he has overflow from the spa 100% of the time the main pool is running and also has the cleaner pop ups working when the pumps on high so I'm assuming that means that his system wasn't simply in spillover mode all the time since the full return to the spa would mean no cleaner action in the pool. At the moment, if he puts the system in "Spillover" mode it doesn't actually do anything and just leaves the valves in what I would consider "Pool" mode (100% suction / 100% return to pool). So it may not have been correctly configured in the first place. As I noted above my buddy is not super savvy about this stuff so little chance he got into the programming and played around with it.

So to update my questions.
1. What's the chance the additional downstream pool return side valve is the spa makeup? I could believe that the valve might have been slightly open and my buddy bumped it closed on accident if the consensus is that it could be spa makeup.
2. If it's not spa makeup then what else could it be? I'm reluctant to just open the single unlabeled manual line without having a clue where it goes so as to avoid accidentally backflowing something.

At the point I'm still thinking its maybe just cam slippage but appreciate thoughts on the extra valve.Suction.JPGReturn.JPG
 
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A CV should be on the spa makeup line so the spa does not drain back to the pool when the pump is off. Good chance that valve will turn on flow to the spa when in POOL mode.

I don't think it is cam slippage.
 
Appreciate the input. I’ll talk to him tomorrow and propose we try the extra valve. Easy enough to just open it and see if we get flow to the spa.

Like I said the weird thing is he swears he didn’t touch anything and that it was working fine a few days ago. But he also had younger kids so could be literally anything.
 
Mike_d_s said:
Like I said the weird thing is he swears he didn’t touch anything and that it was working fine a few days ago.
Click to expand...

Having been here for a while helping people they always say that it worked perfectly yesterday and they have not touched anything.
 
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