Hayward 2 speed pumps

cj133 · Jan 13, 2019

Hi all,

Does anyone know what type of motor control Hayward is using in their 2 speed pumps like the Matrix? Do they actually run as a 4 pole motor in low?

Also does anyone have specifications on these pumps running in low speed?

Jimrahbe · Jan 13, 2019

133,

Two speed pumps run at 3450 RPM on high and 1725 RPM on low speed..

As far as motor "control", most two speed pumps use a switch to change between Hi and Lo speeds. This switch can be mounted on the back of the pump, or can be a two speed timer, or an input from an automation system.

Basically, to switch speeds, you apply the input voltage to a different set of windings.

Thanks,

Jim R.

cj133 · Jan 13, 2019

Jimrahbe said:
133,

Two speed pumps run at 3450 RPM on high and 1725 RPM on low speed..

As far as motor "control", most two speed pumps use a switch to change between Hi and Lo speeds. This switch can be mounted on the back of the pump, or can be a two speed timer, or an input from an automation system.

Basically, to switch speeds, you apply the input voltage to a different set of windings.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,

So these motors literally become a 4 pole motor in low?

I assumed they were using some kind of controller to slow it down.

JamesW · Jan 13, 2019

There are two sets of windings, a 2 pole set for high speed and a 4 pole set for low speed.

cj133 · Jan 13, 2019

Thank you all for responding. I never knew this type of motor existed. Very interesting!

Are the claims true regarding flow dropping 50% but power consumption dropping by 75% in low speed true?

mknauss · Jan 13, 2019

cj133 said:
Are the claims true regarding flow dropping 50% but power consumption dropping by 75% in low speed true?

Yes.

cj133 · Jan 19, 2019

mknauss said:
Yes.

Ok, I'm going to be using a Hayward S230T932S. It's 1.5hp and 2 speed pump with a 23" 250 pound sand filter.. It claims 54gpm in the advertisements which I assume is in high speed.

Will this system flow enough in low speed for a wide mouth Dyna-skim and a main drain? Or will the skimmer not have enough flow?

The tag on the pump says it's .16hp in low speed. Seems like that wouldn't move 50% of 54gpm, no?

I understand the back pressure from the filter must drop, but does it drop that much?

This is going to greatly effect my decision if installing a main drain or not as my plans are for the pump to spend most of its life in low speed.

Jimrahbe · Jan 19, 2019

133,

I am unsure of your question... As far as I know, main drains and skimmers do not have a minimum flow requirement.

I run my pump at 1200 RPM and I could not care less about the exact amount of flow.. My filter pressure is only about one pound, yet everything works just fine.

What is it that you believe will not work at half speed?

Thanks,

Jim R.

cj133 · Jan 19, 2019

Jimrahbe said:
133,

I am unsure of your question... As far as I know, main drains and skimmers do not have a minimum flow requirement.

I run my pump at 1200 RPM and I could not care less about the exact amount of flow.. My filter pressure is only about one pound, yet everything works just fine.

What is it that you believe will not work at half speed?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,

My concerns are the skimmer not having enough flow to skim effectively if a main drain or two is also connected in low speed.

I could very likely be completely wrong which is why I'm asking.

I've seen so many mixed opinions about main drains in above ground pools that I'm second guessing my plan.

Jimrahbe · Jan 19, 2019

133,

There are thousands and thousands of pools out there with no working main drains and they all work just fine... I have two rent houses without working main drains... My pool is newer and has main drains.. To be honest I can't see any difference. All three pools run at 1200 RPM, all three use the TFP process, none of the three pools have ever had an algae out break in over 6 years... (My pool is only about five years old..)

I see no reason to not install a main drain, but don't see it having any impact on the pump running on low speed.

The biggest thing that makes a skimmer work is the Weir door, not the amount of flow... The skimmers does not have to look like a flushing toilet bowl to make sure it skims well. Looking at my skimmers, you can hardly tell the water is flowing at all.

I have gunite pools, but can't see any reason that would make a difference.

Do you plan on having a heater?

What advantage do you believe you will get by installing main drains??

Jim R.

cj133 · Jan 19, 2019

Jimrahbe said:
133,

There are thousands and thousands of pools out there with no working main drains and they all work just fine... I have two rent houses without working main drains... My pool is newer and has main drains.. To be honest I can't see any difference. All three pools run at 1200 RPM, all three use the TFP process, none of the three pools have ever had an algae out break in over 6 years... (My pool is only about five years old..)

I see no reason to not install a main drain, but don't see it having any impact on the pump running on low speed.

The biggest thing that makes a skimmer work is the Weir door, not the amount of flow... The skimmers does not have to look like a flushing toilet bowl to make sure it skims well. Looking at my skimmers, you can hardly tell the water is flowing at all.

I have gunite pools, but can't see any reason that would make a difference.

Do you plan on having a heater?

What advantage do you believe you will get by installing main drains??

Jim R.

My hopes were for less vacuuming with one or more main drains.

What differences have you seen with your pools of any?

No heater only a solar cover.

duraleigh · Jan 19, 2019

"My hopes were for less vacuuming with one or more main drains. "

That won't work. A main drain will pull VERY little from the pool floor and will not reduce your vacuuming to any appreciable degree.

Jimrahbe · Jan 19, 2019

133,

Main drains have very little suction power.. You can place your hand on the main drain and will not feel much if any suction, even if the pump is running full speed. It is not like they will suck the dirt off the bottom of the pool.. They might help a little, if you brushed everything into the main drain, but if I was doing that, I would have the pump on full speed anyway.

I have robot cleaners, which do not use the water to power them... This means I don't ever have to vacuum... On the other hand, I know that robots work great in gunite pools, but I have no clue how well they might work in AGP.. ???

Thanks,

Jim R.

cj133 · Jan 21, 2019

duraleigh said:
"My hopes were for less vacuuming with one or more main drains. "

That won't work. A main drain will pull VERY little from the pool floor and will not reduce your vacuuming to any appreciable degree.

Jimrahbe said:
133,

Main drains have very little suction power.. You can place your hand on the main drain and will not feel much if any suction, even if the pump is running full speed. It is not like they will suck the dirt off the bottom of the pool.. They might help a little, if you brushed everything into the main drain, but if I was doing that, I would have the pump on full speed anyway.

I have robot cleaners, which do not use the water to power them... This means I don't ever have to vacuum... On the other hand, I know that robots work great in gunite pools, but I have no clue how well they might work in AGP.. ???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you both for responding.

This may be a dangerous question, but what reason are main drains used?

Jimrahbe · Jan 21, 2019

133,

In theory, the main drain can be used to feed the pump when the water level is below the skimmer..

In the old days, the skimmer and main drain were plumbed together... Under the skimmer basket was a floating device.. As long as there was water coming into the skimmer the float, well.. floated... If the water quit coming in, the float dropped to the bottom and this closed an open port and then the water would get sucked from the main drain, keeping the pump from ever running dry. It was a crude and ineffective way to switch between the main drain and the skimmer, but worked sometimes...

Now, most main drains are plumbed back to the equipment pad, so that you can use a Jandy valve to select if you want the water to come from the skimmer, or the main drain, or a combination of the two... Most people with main drains set there valves so that they suck 10% of the water from the main drain and 90% from the skimmer... The down side to this set up is that it does not prevent the pump from running dry if the skimmer runs out of water.

The only benefit of having a main drain is that you get slightly better circulation in the deep end...

Thanks,

Jim R.

mas985 · Jan 21, 2019

Most skimmers will have a minimum flow rate that is just enough to allow water to flow over the weir door. Too low and the water will tend to flow around the side gaps of the weir door instead of over. For my skimmers, it is around 13 GPM per skimmer. Others could be more or less.

cj133 · Jan 21, 2019

mas985 said:
Most skimmers will have a minimum flow rate that is just enough to allow water to flow over the weir door. Too low and the water will tend to flow around the side gaps of the weir door instead of over. For my skimmers, it is around 13 GPM per skimmer. Others could be more or less.

Is there a recommended maximum for a typical skimmer?

JamesW · Jan 21, 2019

The skimmer installation manual will specify the flow rate.

mas985 · Jan 21, 2019

cj133 said:
Is there a recommended maximum for a typical skimmer?

Each skimmer should have a maximum flow rate specification that is determined by entrapment risk.

cj133 · Jan 21, 2019

JamesW said:
The skimmer installation manual will specify the flow rate.

I thought that, but I didn't see anything in the Hayward Dyna-skim manual.

https://www.hayward-pool.com/assets...uals/IS1091LX.pdf.pagespeed.ce.pY1qPVu2DX.pdf

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