Needing all the help and advice!

[New2PoolsNC]

Hi! My husband and I are new to the pool life! Like very new! We just ordered a 20x45x30 True L, vinyl liner pool. We are trying to decide what kind of pump and filter to get. After speaking with Pentair (because we heard their customer service is top notch-not because we are biased on any particular product) it was recommended that we get their intelliflo 3 VSF pump with the Tagelus 600 lb sand filter and the IC 60 chlorinator and power center. However, then I spoke with someone else at Pentair and they said we should never use sand with that size pump that it would shorten the life and cause it to fail sooner. He suggested their clean and clear plus systems. I suppose it’s worth mentioning that we have 2 skimmers and 4 returns in the build. We plan to have the pump/filter approximately 61’ away from one skimmer and approximately 120’ away from the other. Our builder has been building for a very long time and very much is “old school” in his techniques. We had to negotiate to get him to use 2” plumbing because he always uses 1.5” and it’s always fine. Unfortunately, we don’t like fine. My husband and I are both OCD and perfectionists about some things and making this investment is one of those things. So here I am asking for advice. Can anyone with some experience shed some light? What pump/filter should we be looking at? How many times a day do you turn your pool over? We read online anywhere from 1-4 times a day. One doesn’t seem like a big deal but when you’re talking about almost 38k gallons, 4x is a huge difference. Is 2” plumbing enough? Do we need bigger? Help!!! Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance!

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP. Please read Pool Care Basics as it will help with terminology and overall care & maintenance

Picking the IC60 SWCG is excellent for your 38k gal pool.
The Pentair IntelliFlo3 pump is real new and have gotten good reviews.
Purchasing a large cartridge filter is recommended. Pentair CCP series is great. The larger cartridge filter will allow longer intervals between cleaning.
At TFP we do not support the turnover methodology. There should be a reason to circulate your pool - the 3 main reasons are
1 mix your chemicals
2 skim your surface area
3 allow your SWCG to produce chlorine to meet your daily loss requirements

So your pump time can be any amount of time and each pool is different. However, many of us with VS pumps & SWCGs, run the pump 20-24 hrs a day. Marjority of the time is run at low speed to allow production of chlorine throughout the day. then run at a higher speed for 2-4 hours to skim the surface of the pool, then other times could be be run spillover of spa to pool or a waterfeature, etc.

2 inch plumbing should be fine but you could do a detailed study if needed.

Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head?

Edit - Before reading this article, you may want to first familiarize yourself with this Pool School article on Pump Basics Hydraulics 101 - Pump Head Curves, Plumbing Head Curves and Operating Points Hydraulic Head In fluid dynamics, head is a concept that relates the energy in an...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Bperry]

Something to consider is that most pool equipment is setup for either 1.5” or 2” pipe. Not having to use reducers would be one advantage to sticking with 2” or 1.5”.

 

[PoolStored]

1 mix your chemicals
2 skim your surface area
3 allow your SWCG to produce chlorine to meet your daily loss requirements

4 filter your water
5 heat your water if you have a heater

All three filter types are fine...cartridge, DE and sand. They are just different, and come down to personal preference. Great read:

Pool Filter Comparison

Your pool's filter is a vital part of your equipment pad. We'll take a look at each type of filter and list the pro's and con's of each.

www.troublefreepool.com

I don't think that the Pentair rep is correct, at 4.9sqft, the filter you are specifying is a big one. There should be no issues with the VSP. The intelliflo is a state of the art pump, very reliable with great service life.

oh...and WELCOME TO TFP!!!

 

[New2PoolsNC]

Thanks everyone! I’ll get to reading the suggested articles too!

 

[PoolStored]

Thanks everyone! I’ll get to reading the suggested articles too!

My hot take:
1) if you want minimum ongoing maintenance, and don't mind seeing particulate at NIGHT, go sand or cartridge.
2) if you want to really don't want to see particulate at night, and don't care about where DE goes, or have a great place to put the DE, or don't mind dealing with grids, go DE.
3) if you want "close to DE" filtration and can "hack" cleaning cartridges, go cartridge.

Again, totally personal preference. I have sand filter. I don't add FLOC/clarifiers etc. that can clog a sand filter. Backwash when pressure rises 25%, good to go. Cartridge are great, particularly if you oversize, long time between cleaning, but you DO have to clean them. DE require you to backwash and recharge DE. I don't want to clean cartridges, and I don't want to deal with DE, particularly if the grids get messed up.

You are likely, in the long run, better off with Sand or Cartridge, unless you demand the clearest water AT NIGHT, and are willing to deal with DE.

 

[Bperry]

After hearing about all the issues with DE and my fathers pool having issues with DE, I wouldn’t go anywhere near it. Maybe a totally irrational bias on my part, but just seems to be no upside to DE and lots of downsides.

 

[New2PoolsNC]

Does anyone know anything about circupools? I keep getting persuaded to use Hayward when I thought I was going with Pentair. In brief, I am preparing to have an almost 38k pool installed and was looking at the Pentair intelliflo 3 VSF, ic60, and the clean and clear cartridge filter (520 sq ft). After speaking with the company I have ordered my kit from, they say I should look at the Hayward 720 sq ft cartridge filter and the tristar vs 950, 2.7 (with Omni if I prefer) and stick with the Pentair ic 60 since Hayward doesn’t have a residential that goes high enough for the pool. So while researching chlorinator tonight, my husband and I stumbled across circupools. Then, I saw that they have packages for everything. Are they good? Their warranties sure seem nice. Or does it fall back to you get what you pay for? I’ll add a picture of a quick package quote I made on their site. Thanks so much.

 

[ajw22]

Are you planning on automation now or anytime in the future? If so the pump and SWG are best matched with the automation panel.

Circupool is fine although Pentair is better. Pentair warranty support is superior to Circupool.

Circupool SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Calimar/Circupool/BD/Blue Torrent Pump - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

A 520 sq ft cartridge filter is overkill even for a 38k gallon pool. You will not notice any difference between the 520 and 700 sq ft filters except for the fact that the 700sq ft filter will be a BEAST to work on. Wet cartridges are heavy to lift, the bigger they are the heavier they are to lift. Save your back the trouble and don’t go any higher than a 520 sq ft.

I also agree - keep everything as much as you can in the same family of products. Mixing and matching doesn’t give you much benefit but can bite you in the rear end under some circumstances. Pentair is top shelf.

 

[ajw22]

Check the details of Pentair warranty. When you get 3 eligible products on a single invoice you get a 3 year warranty.

Pool Product Warranty Information

Whether you are planning a pool party for friends and family or prefer the serene sensation of a calm pool, Pentair has the pool and spa solutions just for you.

www.pentair.com

While the majority of Pentair products are covered by a sixty- (60) day warranty, a select number of products qualify for extended warranty coverage.

Select Bundled Products: applies to purchases and qualified installation of a minimum of a pump and filter, and one or more of the following: heaters, heat pumps, control systems, automatic cleaners, lighting, salt chlorine generators or UV sterilizer**

*Note: Qualified Installer - Defined as a licensed professional who charges a fee for his services, and possesses a business license, contractor's license and/or resale permit. Common examples of a "qualified installer" include: Swimming Pool, Home Repair or Landscape Professional; Plumber or Electrician; General Contractor; Heating and Air Conditioning Specialist.

Bundled products - must be purchased on the same invoice and installed at the same time. If any product within a bundle is ineligible for the bundled warranty coverage then all products within the same bundle will be disqualified from receiving the three (3) year extended warranty coverage for bundled products.

TradeGrade products must be purchased from a retail store (brick & mortar), pool builder or pool service company to receive a one-year, two-year or three-year warranty. If purchased online will only receive a sixty-day limited warranty. View the list of TradeGrade Products.

Ecommerce (EC) products: Products purchased from an Authorized Pentair Online Reseller (products beginning with EC-) receive a one (1) year (parts only) warranty from the date of purchase. The exceptions are: IntelliChlor cells and IntelliFlo SVRS pumps which receive a two (2) year warranty. EC products are not eligible for the bundled three (3) year extended warranty.

 

[pjt]

Pentair intelliflo 3 VSF, ic60, and the clean and clear cartridge filter (520 sq ft)

That is excellent equipment that would work great with your new pool. If you want automation, get IntelliCenter. Will you have a heater? Spa?

It's best to commit to one brand. All the products in that brand ecosystem will have the best interconnectivity.

 

[New2PoolsNC]

That is excellent equipment that would work great with your new pool. If you want automation, get IntelliCenter. Will you have a heater? Spa?

It's best to commit to one brand. All the products in that brand ecosystem will have the best interconnectivity.

We scored a fabulous deal on a Pentair heater. It’s not big enough to really work quickly due to our pool size, but we figure for the price, we will give it a whirl and when it plays out decide if it’s worth replacing or not.

Thank you. We just keep hearing that Hayward interface is easier for us amateurs . And it was also recommended to look at the Hayward 720 sq ft cartridge that Pentair doesn’t have anything comparable to in regards to size (but from my searches the Hayward 720 may be discontinued). And Hayward cannot offer a salt chlorinator that is big enough.

 

[New2PoolsNC]

Check the details of Pentair warranty. When you get 3 eligible products on a single invoice you get a 3 year warranty.

Pool Product Warranty Information

Whether you are planning a pool party for friends and family or prefer the serene sensation of a calm pool, Pentair has the pool and spa solutions just for you.

www.pentair.com

While the majority of Pentair products are covered by a sixty- (60) day warranty, a select number of products qualify for extended warranty coverage.

Select Bundled Products: applies to purchases and qualified installation of a minimum of a pump and filter, and one or more of the following: heaters, heat pumps, control systems, automatic cleaners, lighting, salt chlorine generators or UV sterilizer**

*Note: Qualified Installer - Defined as a licensed professional who charges a fee for his services, and possesses a business license, contractor's license and/or resale permit. Common examples of a "qualified installer" include: Swimming Pool, Home Repair or Landscape Professional; Plumber or Electrician; General Contractor; Heating and Air Conditioning Specialist.

Bundled products - must be purchased on the same invoice and installed at the same time. If any product within a bundle is ineligible for the bundled warranty coverage then all products within the same bundle will be disqualified from receiving the three (3) year extended warranty coverage for bundled products.

TradeGrade products must be purchased from a retail store (brick & mortar), pool builder or pool service company to receive a one-year, two-year or three-year warranty. If purchased online will only receive a sixty-day limited warranty. View the list of TradeGrade Products.

Ecommerce (EC) products: Products purchased from an Authorized Pentair Online Reseller (products beginning with EC-) receive a one (1) year (parts only) warranty from the date of purchase. The exceptions are: IntelliChlor cells and IntelliFlo SVRS pumps which receive a two (2) year warranty. EC products are not eligible for the bundled three (3) year extended warranty.

I have read their warranty things a thousand times trying to make sure I’m within parameters and the whole EC thing because we really would like the 3 yr warranty. I see you have a 35k gallon with the IC 60, which pump and filter do you have?
Thank you!!

 

[New2PoolsNC]

A 520 sq ft cartridge filter is overkill even for a 38k gallon pool. You will not notice any difference between the 520 and 700 sq ft filters except for the fact that the 700sq ft filter will be a BEAST to work on. Wet cartridges are heavy to lift, the bigger they are the heavier they are to lift. Save your back the trouble and don’t go any higher than a 520 sq ft.

I also agree - keep everything as much as you can in the same family of products. Mixing and matching doesn’t give you much benefit but can bite you in the rear end under some circumstances. Pentair is top shelf.

Thank you! We keep getting pulled in all sorts of directions everywhere we turn and ask!

 

[ajw22]

We just keep hearing that Hayward interface is easier for us amateurs .

And who do you “keep hearing” that from? A Hayward dealer?

After seeing many folks try and understand and use automation systems I can tell you the IntelliCenter UI is easier then the Hayward.

And it was also recommended to look at the Hayward 720 sq ft cartridge that Pentair doesn’t have anything comparable to in regards to size (but from my searches the Hayward 720 may be discontinued).

And @JoyfulNoise told yiu above why the 720 is unnecessary and a 520 will serve you fine.

And Hayward cannot offer a salt chlorinator that is big enough.

Not as well as a Pentair IC60.

 

[ajw22]

I have read their warranty things a thousand times trying to make sure I’m within parameters and the whole EC thing because we really would like the 3 yr warranty. I see you have a 35k gallon with the IC 60, which pump and filter do you have?
Thank you!!

IntelliFlo VSF 011056 and FNS 60 DE filter. All below in my signature.

 

[New2PoolsNC]

And who do you “keep hearing” that from? A Hayward dealer?

After seeing many folks try and understand and use automation systems I can tell you the IntelliCenter UI is easier then the Hayward.



And @JoyfulNoise told yiu above why the 720 is unnecessary and a 520 will serve you fine.


Not as well as a Pentair IC60.

Our builder originally suggested Hayward, the company we ordered from suggested Hayward (although they also offer Pentair), and a few suppliers that are also Pentair dealers.
The pump I am looking at has the I/o built in (011076), if I understood the pentair rep correctly, I would not have to buy the intellicenter, right? I have some concerns that it doesn’t have a key pad on it and is 100% reliant on my phone, and I’ve already heard they are redoing it to put a keypad back on the unit but I know it will not be available before I need it.

And it doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit to have 4 cartridges in the 520 to clean compared to 8 in the 720. Thank you both for clarifying that.

 

[ajw22]

With the 011076 pump I would add the Optional Touchscreen Controller (Almond - P/N 356159z, Black - P/N 356348z). Pentair does not need to redo anything to put the keypad on.

With the 011076 IO board you get 2 relays and basic automation through the phone app. You can use one relay to control the IntelliChlor Power Center so you don’t need to use a timer with the SWG.

Pentair IntelliFlo Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

Our builder originally suggested Hayward, the company we ordered from suggested Hayward (although they also offer Pentair), and a few suppliers that are also Pentair dealers.

Are you talking about the Hayward OmniLogic or Omni PL system?