Where would you put that in the flow loop? After salt cell? Is there an advantage to having the IPH put in acid?
Com link error between IC20 and Easytouch After Intelliph dispenses acid
- Thread starter bakrsdzn
- Start date
- May 3, 2014
- 62,685
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
You can put it in the loop before or after the SWCG.
I assume you have automation with this system? An Easytouch?
I assume you have automation with this system? An Easytouch?
Actually the tank for the IPh is a great piece of equipment and it does already have a Stenner pump on it. It really is very well done. You could simply trigger doses from a relay on your automation or convert it to a full on Chem controller.
github.com
DIY REM Chem Controller
An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController
github.com
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
+1 for that. Pentair did a really good job on that tank, that's what I meant by "niceties." So that's a good thought. If you can't get the IpH controller working, several of us here can walk you through how to rid yourself of the controller and just use the tank and the pump. That solves both of the IpH's shortcomings (the overcurrent issue, and the winter issue), and, of course, your particular issue.Actually the tank for the IPh is a great piece of equipment and it does already have a Stenner pump on it. It really is very well done. You could simply trigger doses from a relay on your automation or convert it to a full on Chem controller.
DIY REM Chem Controller
An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController
What I like about the controller, that you'll lose without it, is that it shuts down the IC while dispensing, and that it dispenses every hour. I have it in my head that that is better for my pool, maintaining a constant pH, hourly, as opposed to dumping in a load of acid once a day. Though I'll admit, if that is actually advantageous to my pebble, it's likely very minimal. If your pool controller has the scheduling chops, you could recreate one or both of those aspects, without the IpH controller. Mine can't, because it only has a couple of available scheduling slots left. The IpH also monitors the IC's flow switch, and won't dispense if there is no flow. But I can also walk you through how to recreate that safety, if you're interested and you want to dump the IpH controller.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
If you're bored, check out my thread, to give you (1) a sense of what is possible with an IpH, and (2) the kind of crazy that you're dealing with if you listen to anything I have to add! 
www.troublefreepool.com
Hacking IntellipH to work in cold water
As Pentair IntellipH (IpH) automatic acid dosing system owners know, the IpH depends on a Pentair IntellliChlor (IC) saltwater chlorine generator. The IpH uses the IC's power supply, and monitors its flow switch, so that it won't dispense acid if the IC is reporting low flow. Unfortunately, it...
www.troublefreepool.com
I really like the idea of getting the IPh out of my system. I have an external IC power center + Easytouch like you had. Where to start on this project? Looking at what you did, I can take out anything that has to do with the IPH controller, so that would leave the acid pump wired to a Buck converter, wired to a relay on the ET, wired to the IC power center output? How does the scheduling work? Is that using the ET time scheduling with min runtime of 1 min?If you're bored, check out my thread, to give you (1) a sense of what is possible with an IpH, and (2) the kind of crazy that you're dealing with if you listen to anything I have to add!
Hacking IntellipH to work in cold water
As Pentair IntellipH (IpH) automatic acid dosing system owners know, the IpH depends on a Pentair IntellliChlor (IC) saltwater chlorine generator. The IpH uses the IC's power supply, and monitors its flow switch, so that it won't dispense acid if the IC is reporting low flow. Unfortunately, it...
Edit: does the IC need to be off if dosing upstream?
Last edited:
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,150
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
What model EasyTouch do you have?
Check that you don't have a PSL4 that limits the number of schedules you can have active to 4.
Check that you don't have a PSL4 that limits the number of schedules you can have active to 4.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Well, ya checked all the issue boxes!
If you were able to decipher what I did, either I have just the IpH's pump connected to the Power Center, OR, I have both the IC and IpH connected to it, but in their "normal" configuration. So you're going to attempt to have the IC connected to the PowerCenter, while at the same time also powering the IpH pump. I believe others here have done that, but I haven't personally. It should be OK, but, again, when my IC is online, and my IpH starts pumping, my IC is not producing, so the total amps would be lower. See what I mean? Something to watch out for. So...
You got some of it. Acid pump wired to a Buck converter, wired to a relay on the ET, wired to the IC power center output. But I also have a flow switch in series too, so three things have to be true before my acid pump gets power: the ET relay must be closed, there must be flow, and the pool circuit must be on.
If your Power Center is properly wired, it should only get power when the pool circuit is on. So that would cover that aspect. You don't have to have a flow sensor in the mix if you don't want to, but I wanted that extra safe guard. I can walk you through that if you want to add that. And you don't have to have a buck converter, either. Another here wired his up without one. The Power Center states a DC output of, like 20-38VDC, something like that, which is pretty vague. The IpH pump gets 24VDC, so I used the Buck Converter to better guarantee the IpH pump gets that 24, and not 38 or 20 or whatever. Just precautionary, as is the flow switch. So I went super safe, others just wire the pump to an ET relay and the Power Center and go with that.
Yes, the dosing is then controlled by scheduling the ET relay in one minute intervals. That works for me in the winter. If you need finer control, you could always adjust the dilution of the acid in the tank.
I forgot to mention, the other thing you give up without the IpH controller, is that it's programmed to dispense only for a set, short time. That's yet another of its safety features. With this alternate workaround, there is nothing doing that for you except your ET schedule. If it goes haywire, or if someone inadvertently presses the wrong button on the face of the ET, that could conceivably empty the tank into your pool. I think I wrote about that. If you dilute your acid 1:1, then at most you have a gallon and a half or so of acid in the tank, which won't destroy anything if that ever happens. Again, just making you aware of what you're getting into.
So lastly is the issue of dispensing acid through an active IC. Pentair suggests the injector go before the IC. I'm not sure what the ramifications are of installing it after the IC. Another here told us, but I've not forgotten, what the problem is with injecting acid into the IC while it's making chlorine. Mixing acid and chlorine is bad, so there's that. But I think it was also something to do with being bad for the IC's delicate plates. Whatever, it's not a good idea.
So you could try to solve this with scheduling, but as I mentioned, the ET severely limits what you can do. You're not going to be able to dispense a little acid every hour, for eight hours. And the cool thing about the IpH controller, is that it doesn't power down the IC while dispensing, it only suspends it, so that it can resume immediately after the IpH is done. You could try to schedule the IC to power down, then power on the IpH pump, then off, then power on the IC after that. But that'd be, what, three schedules or more, and then the IC would have to go through its entire startup procedure again. But that could work if you have enough schedules.
Or, you could schedule the filter pump to run, but not using the pool circuit, then pump acid first thing, then turn on the pool circuit so that the IC would start up after that. But then you couldn't really use the Power Center, because that should only power up with the pool circuit. You'd have to have a separate 24VDC power supply dedicated to the acid pump. Which is fine. You wouldn't need the Buck converter if you did it that way.
Sorry, just thinking out loud. I didn't have to solve for this, because the only time I can run my IpH pump via an ET relay, is when the IC is offline for the season, so coordinating the two is not necessary. You can see why I went to the lengths I did to keep the normal IpH/IC setup intact. That's what I meant by niceties. There are many here that promote the Stenner solution over the IntelllipH, because I think maybe they don't fully appreciate all that the IpH controller is doing behind the scenes like I do, in spite of its flaws...
If you were able to decipher what I did, either I have just the IpH's pump connected to the Power Center, OR, I have both the IC and IpH connected to it, but in their "normal" configuration. So you're going to attempt to have the IC connected to the PowerCenter, while at the same time also powering the IpH pump. I believe others here have done that, but I haven't personally. It should be OK, but, again, when my IC is online, and my IpH starts pumping, my IC is not producing, so the total amps would be lower. See what I mean? Something to watch out for. So...
You got some of it. Acid pump wired to a Buck converter, wired to a relay on the ET, wired to the IC power center output. But I also have a flow switch in series too, so three things have to be true before my acid pump gets power: the ET relay must be closed, there must be flow, and the pool circuit must be on.
If your Power Center is properly wired, it should only get power when the pool circuit is on. So that would cover that aspect. You don't have to have a flow sensor in the mix if you don't want to, but I wanted that extra safe guard. I can walk you through that if you want to add that. And you don't have to have a buck converter, either. Another here wired his up without one. The Power Center states a DC output of, like 20-38VDC, something like that, which is pretty vague. The IpH pump gets 24VDC, so I used the Buck Converter to better guarantee the IpH pump gets that 24, and not 38 or 20 or whatever. Just precautionary, as is the flow switch. So I went super safe, others just wire the pump to an ET relay and the Power Center and go with that.
Yes, the dosing is then controlled by scheduling the ET relay in one minute intervals. That works for me in the winter. If you need finer control, you could always adjust the dilution of the acid in the tank.
I forgot to mention, the other thing you give up without the IpH controller, is that it's programmed to dispense only for a set, short time. That's yet another of its safety features. With this alternate workaround, there is nothing doing that for you except your ET schedule. If it goes haywire, or if someone inadvertently presses the wrong button on the face of the ET, that could conceivably empty the tank into your pool. I think I wrote about that. If you dilute your acid 1:1, then at most you have a gallon and a half or so of acid in the tank, which won't destroy anything if that ever happens. Again, just making you aware of what you're getting into.
So lastly is the issue of dispensing acid through an active IC. Pentair suggests the injector go before the IC. I'm not sure what the ramifications are of installing it after the IC. Another here told us, but I've not forgotten, what the problem is with injecting acid into the IC while it's making chlorine. Mixing acid and chlorine is bad, so there's that. But I think it was also something to do with being bad for the IC's delicate plates. Whatever, it's not a good idea.
So you could try to solve this with scheduling, but as I mentioned, the ET severely limits what you can do. You're not going to be able to dispense a little acid every hour, for eight hours. And the cool thing about the IpH controller, is that it doesn't power down the IC while dispensing, it only suspends it, so that it can resume immediately after the IpH is done. You could try to schedule the IC to power down, then power on the IpH pump, then off, then power on the IC after that. But that'd be, what, three schedules or more, and then the IC would have to go through its entire startup procedure again. But that could work if you have enough schedules.
Or, you could schedule the filter pump to run, but not using the pool circuit, then pump acid first thing, then turn on the pool circuit so that the IC would start up after that. But then you couldn't really use the Power Center, because that should only power up with the pool circuit. You'd have to have a separate 24VDC power supply dedicated to the acid pump. Which is fine. You wouldn't need the Buck converter if you did it that way.
Sorry, just thinking out loud. I didn't have to solve for this, because the only time I can run my IpH pump via an ET relay, is when the IC is offline for the season, so coordinating the two is not necessary. You can see why I went to the lengths I did to keep the normal IpH/IC setup intact. That's what I meant by niceties. There are many here that promote the Stenner solution over the IntelllipH, because I think maybe they don't fully appreciate all that the IpH controller is doing behind the scenes like I do, in spite of its flaws...
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Easy touch 8, I believe give the number of circuits
Attachments
- May 3, 2014
- 62,685
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That is the same panel used for all ET's. You need to either pull off the front panel (be careful as that is the high voltage area) or get a p/n off the panel.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,150
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think you are good since the PL4/PSL4 panel looks like this.
But you should pull off the panel and confirm you have an open high voltage relay to control a Stenner pump if you go in that direction.
But you should pull off the panel and confirm you have an open high voltage relay to control a Stenner pump if you go in that direction.
The Stenner Pump on the tank will put out between 110 and 120mL/minute.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Allen's is giving you good tips. But just know you can convert a PS4 or PSL4 or an ET4 to a full ET 8 if it comes to that (I did just that). I'm not certain, but I think the ET4 and the ET8 have the same panel, but not all the buttons work on the ET4, and it only has 4 relays.
Most of what I'm describing and cautioning in your thread is in the one I linked.
Most of what I'm describing and cautioning in your thread is in the one I linked.
It is an ET4. The four buttons are taken as you can see. One of the buttons is an actuated valve (water feature). So I guess there are no open buttons for a DIY acid dispenser? But it does look like that last relay is unused.
Attachments
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
It is an ET4, but you do have an open relay, so hardware is good. It depends on how many schedules it supports, and how many you have available. But as I said, upgrading to ET8 is relatively simple and cheap (some can be upgraded DIY). And I'd need @Jimrahbe to confirm, but I think there's also a way to schedule that relay even though you wouldn't have control of it via one of the four available buttons. I'm not 100% on that.
Last edited:
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Alternately, you can control your pool light with one of any number of home automation solutions, and use that button/relay for the acid. That's how I have my light set up. I can control my pool light from several places in my home, and with my phone. Just not with the pool automation software. It's not mandatory that pool lights be controlled by your pool automation system. Some lights have special features that are accessed through pool automation systems (like color choices), that are hard to recreate via HA hardware, but even that is possible if that's the type of light you have (I've done that, too). Where there's a will, there's a way.
I could also remove the actuated valve, which I almost never use, and just operate the valve by hand to turn on the water feature. What is the procedure for upgrading an ET4 to ET8? And when you say schedules it supports, how would I find that out? Right now filter pump, cleaner, and light are on schedules.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Or you could stuff a pi in the box with a relay board that will extend your EasyTouch with additional relays and schedules. No need for probes if you don’t want. Heck I might be talked into allowing volume dosing schedules that would turn off the Chlorinator when dosing.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,640
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
We're writing over each other, ideas flyin' fast and furious. Check out post #36.