Went through pool school - waste

[Dirk]

ciaka, Allen is quite right about the tablets. And you're experiencing what I cautioned about, you wanting to dose correctly, as per TFP guidelines, vs the pool guy wanting to do it his way. The tablets will add CYA. It can build up fast. A lot of pool maintenance "pros" don't fully understand CYA and how bad it is for your pool when it builds up to too high a level. It doesn't evaporate or dissipate like chlorine does, it stays in your pool and builds up over time. Eventually the CYA level gets too high and you can't keep the pool properly sanitized. So then you have to drain some of the water and replace it.

That's what you need to guard against while the PB's team is in charge of the chemistry. Test the CYA every so often and monitor its build up. If it gets into the 20s, then it's time to have a conversation about your expectations for your pool's chemistry with the PB. Explain that you don't want the CYA to get above 30, and that his maintenance guy needs to stop using the tabs. Volunteer to take over the chlorine detail. See what he says. He might be glad to have you take over at that point.

With any luck, the PB's one-month regime will be over before the CYA gets too high, and then you can take over and more closely follow Allen's instructions.

Don't sweat it too much, if the CYA gets above 30, it's not the end of the world. You can always fix it later.

 

[HermanTX]

@ciaka
I would highly suggest going with Liquid Chlorine (LC) to increase the FC to the recommended levels highlighted by others. Home Depot and Leslie's both carry LC, also Pinch A Penny (not sure if there is one in Austin). Since you are adding dry stabilizer that will help keep your FC but you will need most likely to add some LC daily to maintain the level. You definitely want to watch your CYA level so you should test that daily or every second day for this initial period. You do not want to overshoot the CYA.

 

[Bperry]

So PB started the pool up about 3 weeks ago now. They started pumps, put in some muriatic acid and liquid chlorine. Left. pumps were on 100% 24x7 for 2 weeks straight.
Then pool school man came, placed pumps on some default (I cant see since the wifi antenna was missing and they could not set me up to control pumps with phone, so only thing I can do is keep pool on auto - default schedule, or put in service, in which case I have individual control of each pump, but only from control box for now).

Anyway, pool man added some trichlor tablets (put in 4 of them, set to setting 3). That was all he did. When he came, we tested water, ph was 7.4.
That was about 1.5 weeks ago. Since then, pool company was supposed to contact me and set up schedule to visit for 30 days. Nothing happened never heard from them.
Now, about 2 weeks after last test by pool school man, I have been trying to contact the PB, the pool company but Thanksgiving coming up and I CAN BET YOU ANY MONEY I WONT HEAR FROM THEM TIL MONDAY. I have a few choice word to call them.

So instead of doing nothing, I started testing and adding. Hope some of you fine folks will help me keep this train on train tracks, no thanks to the poor service PB and pool company.

My readings have been over last 5 days:
My pool is Chlorine inground, pebble finish. Completed and filled about 3 weeks ago. Followed strict brushing 2 times a day for 2 weeks, then switching to 1 a day brushing so far.
Pool volume is 34,000 gallons (measured by meter when filling).

TEST	4 DAYS AGO	24 HRS AGO	TODAY 1 HR AGO
Free Chlorine	3.0	1.5	0.5
Combined Chlorine	6.0 (LIKELY TEST ERROR)	1.0	0.5
pH	7.4	8.0	8.2
Total Alkalinity	270	270	275
Calcium Hardness	300	60	300
Cyunaric Acid	LIKELY NEAR 0	LIKELY NEAR 0	LIKELY NEAR 0
CSI	0.22	0.13	1.03

Yesterday after test, CYA very low. Used pool math, to try increase CYA by about 8ppm (trying to increase slowly). Added 2lbs of powder stabilizer. After a day, still do not see level change (still appears nearly zero).

Today, after test, pH appeared greatly increased (rained today too for a bit). Used pool math to try lower by 0.9pH. Added 1 gallon of 31.45% Muriatic acid. After couple hours running pump, tested pH and did not see great decrease, maybe 0.2pH if I am optimistic.
I also cranked up the chlorinator to level 6 overnight. Hoping this will help increase FC. Will reduce back to #3 tomorrow sometime.

Hope someone can take time to read this book and comment on what I am doing. Obviously, I am doing more than the PB and pool company are. Getting very irritated by them now.
Thanks for any advice.

In my opinion, making sure you are doing the testing correctly is the first step. Maybe get some help confirming the FC and PH test is being done correctly first, then worry about the other stuff.

 

[jseyfert3]

I don't know if you've learned about this yet, but the single best thing you can do for your testing learning curve, and beyond, is to buy a Taylor SpeedStir. While it might seem like an unnecessary expense, it's not. Not only does it make testing sooooo much easier, you'll also get better more accurate results. Trust me, you'll be very glad to have one after the first time you use it. Order it today...

That Looks pretty good. I think I will pull the trigger on this gadget.

If you've not already, here's a quick demonstration of why you should get it. This is me, testing my hot tub a couple minutes ago. Testing one handed by the way, cause I was holding my camera, and as you can see it took less than a minute. You can't count the last drops of the FC test cause the camera isn't aimed right but it's 16, which is 8 ppm. Then we had two drops on the CC test so 1 ppm.

The syringe of water is an alternative to the SampleSizer some have mentioned for quick measurements. Before my wife became a nurse practitioner she'd forget saline flushes in her scrub pockets, I realized they are conveniently marked in mL and have a capacity of 10 mL...perfect! Ever since that's how I measure. I rinse the Speedstir tube and magnetic stir bar in pool/spa water, rinse out the syringe, fill to 10 mL then squirt it into the Speedstir tube.

Oh yeah, and if you didn't notice the SpeedStir has lights, so if you're testing at night or early morning/night it's amazing. Actually I leave them on in all testing except direct sunlight cause even if it's cloudy it helps.

And I also recommend PoolMath, the app. The free version lets you calculate additions. The paid version ($8 or $10 a year) lets you log and have multiple pools. If you click my name, then click "PoolMath Logs" you can see the record of the test in the above video, plus my subsequent chlorine (bleach) addition.

 

[Dirk]

Personally, I don't use a sample sizer, and wouldn't use a syringe. Nothing wrong with those methods, at all. We each find what works best for us, and then we all share are solutions with others. For me, I take my pool water sample with a squirt bottle that Leslie's offers for free. It's cap has a squirter that I find more than adequate for dispensing just the right amount into the testing vial (atop my SpeedStir). It's important to rinse everything beforehand with pool water. I rinse the Leslie's bottle in the pool before I take the sample. The idea of rinsing even one more thing than needed steers me away from additional measuring devices like a sample sizer, but again, your method will be what works best for you.

This Leslie's sampler holds just the right amount of water to rinse things and perform all the tests:



PS. Great video J! Really shows how easy and fast things go with the SpeedStir. My take away: I can be testing my pool and eating a sandwich at the same time!!

 

[markayash]

No need to be afraid of math. Just use the below equation when converting from standard molarity to a parts per million formulation.

easier
drop drop 1 drop drop 2 drop drop 3

 

[markayash]

Actually since following TFP methods and getting a salt cell I am thinking " why do I need a 2006 test kit
Add tad acid every 2 weeks and if pool water looks off check FC

 

[ciaka]

My expectation is that I will be doing all the maintenance. I just want the PB to fulfill his obligaion of month of service. This way I ramp up and they are out of my hair.
Understand about tabs. my cya is nil so I want to build it up. When It gets near 15 or 20, Yes, I will ensure I only use liq. Chlorine.
Thank you for advice too.


I am confident I am doing it right. Even if I do the ballpark strips, they come back in the ballpark that I am observing with Taylor test.
pH came down after I added muriatic acid, from about 8.2 to about 7.8 or so. Got more to go, CYA marginally increased, like someone sa

ciaka, Allen is quite right about the tablets. And you're experiencing what I cautioned about, you wanting to dose correctly, as per TFP guidelines, vs the pool guy wanting to do it his way. The tablets will add CYA. It can build up fast. A lot of pool maintenance "pros" don't fully understand CYA and how bad it is for your pool when it builds up to too high a level. It doesn't evaporate or dissipate like chlorine does, it stays in your pool and builds up over time. Eventually the CYA level gets too high and you can't keep the pool properly sanitized. So then you have to drain some of the water and replace it.

That's what you need to guard against while the PB's team is in charge of the chemistry. Test the CYA every so often and monitor its build up. If it gets into the 20s, then it's time to have a conversation about your expectations for your pool's chemistry with the PB. Explain that you don't want the CYA to get above 30, and that his maintenance guy needs to stop using the tabs. Volunteer to take over the chlorine detail. See what he says. He might be glad to have you take over at that point.

With any luck, the PB's one-month regime will be over before the CYA gets too high, and then you can take over and more closely follow Allen's instructions.

Don't sweat it too much, if the CYA gets above 30, it's not the end of the world. You can always fix it later.

In my opinion, making sure you are doing the testing correctly is the first step. Maybe get some help confirming the FC and PH test is being done correctly first, then worry about the other stuff.

 

[Bperry]

My expectation is that I will be doing all the maintenance. I just want the PB to fulfill his obligaion of month of service. This way I ramp up and they are out of my hair.
Understand about tabs. my cya is nil so I want to build it up. When It gets near 15 or 20, Yes, I will ensure I only use liq. Chlorine.
Thank you for advice too.


I am confident I am doing it right. Even if I do the ballpark strips, they come back in the ballpark that I am observing with Taylor test.
pH came down after I added muriatic acid, from about 8.2 to about 7.8 or so. Got more to go, CYA marginally increased, like someone sa

My concern would be how you got CC of 6?

 

[markayash]

I use strips sometimes but don't trust them for CYA..I got in trouble years ago ( before I came here and reaized it was around 160 when strips showed 40 ) doing that and these latest ones showed 30 when it was 50 and still 30 when I raised it to 80
For PH and FC I agree they will keep you in the ballpark

Just be careful and don't get CYA too high until your ready to convert to a SWG

 

[ciaka]

Yes, I only used them to get a ballpark and do not plan on relying on them at all. Just wanted to get a ballpark figures.
Just added some Chlorine (72oz @10%), and Muriatic acid (64oz @31.45%), to get the pH down and add more FC. Will test again tomorrow to see the results.
Added to 34k and change inground pool. Need to find way to reduce TA...its at about 250 now. will test tomorrow. Muriatic will bring that down a bit I hope too.

 

[ajw22]

You don't need to lower your TA now. The MA you add to lower your pH will also lower your TA over time. Your TA at 270 is not causing any problem right now.

Get used to the basics of testing and adding chemicals and get past your pool startup. In a few months we can revisit your TA.

 

[ciaka]

Roger that ajw22. I added liquid chlorine to up FC by about 1ppm. Also added muriatic acid to lower pH, by about 0.5. This should put me in the area of about 1.5 or 2ppm for FC, and about 7.5 or so for pH. It is mixing nicely now, I guess I have to allow the day to mix well (pump is running in service mode at 100% and my water features pump is running too to mix it all well).

 

[Dirk]

7.5 pH is good. 2ppm for FC is a bit low. Shoot for 3ppm. With the pump running, it only takes 30 mins, an hour tops, to mix in chlorine and acid, you don't need a day to get results. CYA is the one that takes a while. Lots of factors, but that can take anywhere from a day to a week to get a result from a CYA addition.

 

[ajw22]

Roger that ajw22. I added liquid chlorine to up FC by about 1ppm. Also added muriatic acid to lower pH, by about 0.5. This should put me in the area of about 1.5 or 2ppm for FC, and about 7.5 or so for pH. It is mixing nicely now, I guess I have to allow the day to mix well (pump is running in service mode at 100% and my water features pump is running too to mix it all well).

30 minutes to an hour is all it takes for chlorine or MA to mix. You can retest and dose again if necessary after that.

 

[ciaka]

I tested few hours ago again:
FC: 2.0 ppm
CC: 0.5 ppm
pH: 8.0
TA: 250 ppm
CH: 250 ppm
CYA: <10 ppm

Decided to dose more.
24oz Liquid Chlorine to increase FC by about 0.5 ppm.
80 oz MU to decrease pH by about 0.6
Add about 2.25 lbs CYA (dry), to increase CYA by about 8 ppm

All stuff has been added few hours ago, I will retest again tomorrow am sometime.

 

[Dirk]

How are you adding the CYA granules?

 

[ciaka]

My first dose of CYA granules was in a sock suspended on a pole near a waterfall.
My second dose, I placed it into skimmer as many vids have advised. The skimmer way seemed to have dissolved it much quicker. My skimmer basket has a fine bakset bag, so all granules were trapped there. When I checked maybe 3 hours after adding, most were dissolved. However I still do not see the change in CYA level. I dont want to keep adding just to find out a couple days from now that all of a sudden I have like 40 or 50ppm. So after this dose, I will wait few days to see if the level changes. Reduced the trichlor puck feed level to 2 as I am adding liquid chlorine by hand. The pucks the pool man added at school time, were half dissolved last time I checked couple days ago.

How are you adding the CYA granules?

 

[duraleigh]

CYA can show up on the test quickly (like that same day) or it can lag behind for a few days.

TFP suggests that you dose carefully and then ASSUME the CYA is in your pool. I wouldn't even test for it until 3 days or so have passed.

 

[ciaka]

Thanks. Thats exactly the approach I am taking. There is no way there is no CYA in the pool. I put in some. So I will wait til end of week then test again. It is bound to show up somehow.
Is there a kit or test I can get that can accurately tell how much CYA is in the pool? The K-2006c has a small bottle which you empty into the small tube. But the tube readings do not go below 30, and you have to estimate lower reading, and there is no way to estimate anything below 20 or so.