The Physics of Freezing and Freeze Protection
- By mas985
- The Deep End...
- 55 Replies
Recently, there have been a lot of questions from those living in moderate climates about using automatic freeze protection or running pumps to prevent freezing and what a pool owner should do when temperatures drop so I thought it might be useful to have a thread which dealt with the issue from both a practical and theoretical point of view.
But first a few thoughts about using pumps to prevent freezing. Running the pumps is not fool proof and power outages can obviously be a problem. Also, some pools have a lot of features and some are manually controlled so automatic freeze protection may not always be a viable solution. Plus electricity is expensive in many areas so having the pumps run all night is not always an attractive option. Given all these factors, I am not a big fan of using the pumps to prevent freezing, but there are alternatives for those that are interested.
Also, I wondered how long it would actually take for a pipe to freeze so I did some research into the physics of freezing pipes. Over the years, there have been several empirical university studies and the consensus is that for home plumbing in un-insulated spaces (e.g. attics), the "alert" temperature where pipe freezing and bursting can become a problem is below 20F. Above that temperature, freezing rarely occurs and bursting of the pipe is even rarer. But this is for small copper pipe in attics, not pool equipment so I had to look deeper.
The time it takes a pipe to freeze is dependent on several factors:
Size and dimensions of the pipe: More water in the pipe takes longer to freeze.
Pipe thermal conductivity: Copper is about 2000x more thermally conductive than is PVC.
But then there are also environmental conditions:
Air Temperature: The lower the air temperature is below freezing the faster freezing will occur.
Night Sky Exposure: Radiation losses can have a large impact on the heat loss.
Wind Speed: Wind blowing over the pipe greatly increases the heat loss of the pipe.
Location: Proximity to heat sources (e.g. side of house).
But a freezing pipe does not always result a bursting pipe. In fact, it rarely does. When a pipe freezes it freezes from the outside inwards and as the ice expands, the excess pressure is relieved through the center of the pipe until the pipe freezes solid. This alone will not burst the pipe. However, once the pipe is fully frozen and blocks the relief of pressure, the freezing ice up stream of that section of pipe may not have a path to relieve the pressure and only then does the pipe burst. This process is fairly well described in the following sources:
http://www.spokanecounty.org/data/buildingandplanning/disaster/DIS-FreezeBurstPipe.pdf
http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/PMG/Documents/DIS-FreezeBurstPipe.pdf
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/radio/pipefrez.html
So in order to take all these factors into account, I used standard thermal transfer equations to estimate the heat loss of a pipe when exposed to all these environmental conditions. I then ran a few experiments in my freezer to make sure the model was giving fairly accurate results, which it did.
So here are a few examples:
These results assume a minimum night time temperature of 20F, starting at 32F and the time to freeze only includes the time below 32F. So the average temperature is 26F over that time frame. There is some inherent margin included in these numbers because I assumed the water temperature started out at 32F which in most cases it is higher and it ignores the latent heat within the filter water which can act like a heat source for the rest of the plumbing.
Wind has a fairly large affect but visibility to the night sky has an even larger effect. Covering the exposed equipment can reduce the heat loss considerably from both of these factors and freeze times are much much longer. So the easiest thing a pool owner can do is cover the pad equipment and plumbing with a tarp. Adding a heat source underneath the tarp or cover would add enough margin to eliminate the need for running the pump or at least provide enough backup should the automated freeze protection fail.
The heat transfer model is available here for those who are adventurous:
Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head?
So if you would like to be able to go without automated freeze protection OR you would just like to have an extra layer of protection, then you can follow some of the suggestions listed below. The temperature ranges and time are using the thermal loss spreadsheet above which are fairly conservative freeze estimates (i.e. assumes 15 mph winds, full sky exposure with maximum radiation losses and ignores latent heat in filters and surrounding structures).
1. Air Temp 32F->25F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 1" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
2. Air Temp 32F->20F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 1.5" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
3. Air Temp 32F->15F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 2" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
4. Air Temp 32F->10F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 2.5" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
5. Air Temp 32F->0F->32F for <10 hours. Tarp equipment and use an incandescent light bulb underneath OR use heat tape available at your local hardware store.
6. Air Temp <0F. Drain all equipment and plumbing.
Note that when air temps get close to 0F, water temps are likely to be below 40F so there is no harm in draining the equipment and letting the pool go idle since algae is fairly rare at those water temperatures. Also, opening all valves so that all ports have pressure relief to the pool will virtually eliminate any chance of the pipes bursting.
But just so you know, I do practice what I preach. My situation is #3 above and I have not bothered to use automated freeze protection for 8 winters now without incident. But I do not have any plumbing less than 2".
But first a few thoughts about using pumps to prevent freezing. Running the pumps is not fool proof and power outages can obviously be a problem. Also, some pools have a lot of features and some are manually controlled so automatic freeze protection may not always be a viable solution. Plus electricity is expensive in many areas so having the pumps run all night is not always an attractive option. Given all these factors, I am not a big fan of using the pumps to prevent freezing, but there are alternatives for those that are interested.
Also, I wondered how long it would actually take for a pipe to freeze so I did some research into the physics of freezing pipes. Over the years, there have been several empirical university studies and the consensus is that for home plumbing in un-insulated spaces (e.g. attics), the "alert" temperature where pipe freezing and bursting can become a problem is below 20F. Above that temperature, freezing rarely occurs and bursting of the pipe is even rarer. But this is for small copper pipe in attics, not pool equipment so I had to look deeper.
The time it takes a pipe to freeze is dependent on several factors:
Size and dimensions of the pipe: More water in the pipe takes longer to freeze.
Pipe thermal conductivity: Copper is about 2000x more thermally conductive than is PVC.
But then there are also environmental conditions:
Air Temperature: The lower the air temperature is below freezing the faster freezing will occur.
Night Sky Exposure: Radiation losses can have a large impact on the heat loss.
Wind Speed: Wind blowing over the pipe greatly increases the heat loss of the pipe.
Location: Proximity to heat sources (e.g. side of house).
But a freezing pipe does not always result a bursting pipe. In fact, it rarely does. When a pipe freezes it freezes from the outside inwards and as the ice expands, the excess pressure is relieved through the center of the pipe until the pipe freezes solid. This alone will not burst the pipe. However, once the pipe is fully frozen and blocks the relief of pressure, the freezing ice up stream of that section of pipe may not have a path to relieve the pressure and only then does the pipe burst. This process is fairly well described in the following sources:
http://www.spokanecounty.org/data/buildingandplanning/disaster/DIS-FreezeBurstPipe.pdf
http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/PMG/Documents/DIS-FreezeBurstPipe.pdf
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/radio/pipefrez.html
So in order to take all these factors into account, I used standard thermal transfer equations to estimate the heat loss of a pipe when exposed to all these environmental conditions. I then ran a few experiments in my freezer to make sure the model was giving fairly accurate results, which it did.
So here are a few examples:
These results assume a minimum night time temperature of 20F, starting at 32F and the time to freeze only includes the time below 32F. So the average temperature is 26F over that time frame. There is some inherent margin included in these numbers because I assumed the water temperature started out at 32F which in most cases it is higher and it ignores the latent heat within the filter water which can act like a heat source for the rest of the plumbing.
Wind has a fairly large affect but visibility to the night sky has an even larger effect. Covering the exposed equipment can reduce the heat loss considerably from both of these factors and freeze times are much much longer. So the easiest thing a pool owner can do is cover the pad equipment and plumbing with a tarp. Adding a heat source underneath the tarp or cover would add enough margin to eliminate the need for running the pump or at least provide enough backup should the automated freeze protection fail.
The heat transfer model is available here for those who are adventurous:
Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head?
So if you would like to be able to go without automated freeze protection OR you would just like to have an extra layer of protection, then you can follow some of the suggestions listed below. The temperature ranges and time are using the thermal loss spreadsheet above which are fairly conservative freeze estimates (i.e. assumes 15 mph winds, full sky exposure with maximum radiation losses and ignores latent heat in filters and surrounding structures).
1. Air Temp 32F->25F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 1" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
2. Air Temp 32F->20F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 1.5" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
3. Air Temp 32F->15F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 2" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
4. Air Temp 32F->10F->32F for <10 hours. Plumbing 2.5" and above is safe. Tarp or drain for smaller pipes.
5. Air Temp 32F->0F->32F for <10 hours. Tarp equipment and use an incandescent light bulb underneath OR use heat tape available at your local hardware store.
6. Air Temp <0F. Drain all equipment and plumbing.
Note that when air temps get close to 0F, water temps are likely to be below 40F so there is no harm in draining the equipment and letting the pool go idle since algae is fairly rare at those water temperatures. Also, opening all valves so that all ports have pressure relief to the pool will virtually eliminate any chance of the pipes bursting.
But just so you know, I do practice what I preach. My situation is #3 above and I have not bothered to use automated freeze protection for 8 winters now without incident. But I do not have any plumbing less than 2".
Hydraulics 101 - Have you lost your head?
- By mas985
- Pumps, Filters, and Plumbing
- 101 Replies
Edit - Before reading this article, you may want to first familiarize yourself with this Pool School article on Pump Basics
Hydraulics 101 - Pump Head Curves, Plumbing Head Curves and Operating Points
Hydraulic Head
Static head is the net elevation change of the water which can be either positive or negative and is directly related to the height of the water. So water moving from a higher elevation to a lower elevation has head gain while water moving from a lower elevation to a higher elevation has head loss. For example, a pool solar system installed on a roof and where the panels/pipes are primed and completely filled with water, there is static head loss when the water rises to the roof but then there is also static head gain when the water falls back to the ground. The static head loss on the way up is directly offset by the static head gain on the way down so there is no net static head change due to the fact that the solar is installed on the roof. However, there can be temporary static head loss or gain during the priming process where there is head loss due to the elevation lift but since the return pipe is not yet full of water, there is no static head gain to offset it.
The second component of head is dynamic head loss which is due to the friction loss of water inside of pipes, fittings and other equipment. As water travels through a pipe, the friction against the internal structures reduces pressure. A pool's plumbing system will experience dynamic head loss on both the suction side of the pump and return side of the pump since water is moving through plumbing on both sides. The faster water moves through a pipe, the more head loss there will be. A pool pump adds dynamic head gain to the plumbing system so as to create positive pressure and thus water flow through the pipes. The dynamic head loss in the pipes then reduces the pressure until the water returns to the pool where the pressure is once again at 0 PSIr (PSI relative to atmospheric pressure).
A common mistake made by some that are new to hydraulics is to assume that the head loss in plumbing is equal to the length of pipe since they both use the same units. While the dynamic head loss in plumbing is related to the length of pipe, it does not equal it. Addition factors are necessary to calculate the head loss in plumbing and can be quite challenging to accomplish.
In summary, pumps and elevation drops add head to a plumbing system while elevation rises, pipes, fittings, valves, filter, heaters, etc. subtract head from a system. For a swimming pool, the total head loss is always equal to the pump's head gain since the water is returned to the same atmospheric pressure as where it came from.
Pump Head Curves
A residential pool pump is actually made up of two separate "machines". The first machine is often called the "wet end" and this is the part that actually pumps the water and converts rotational energy into flow and pressure. The second machine is the electric motor which converts electrical energy into rotational energy and drives the wet end. Together, these two machines make up a residential pool pump.
Most manufactures of pumps include head curves in their pump manuals and/or sell sheets. The curves have two axes, Feet of Head vs. Gallons per Minute (GPM). Feet of head is used instead of PSI because a centrifugal pump will always deliver the same head for any liquid of any density while the PSI will be different for different liquids and/or densities so traditionally, manufactures have used head instead of PSI.
The head curve is useful in determining the flow rate of the pump if the head loss of the plumbing system is known. Below is an example of a head curve for the Pentair Intelliflo published by the manufacture.
The maximum head of the pump is reached when the flow rate is near zero GPM and at full RPM. This is equivalent to an equal length of open ended pipe straight up in the air. The pump will fill the pipe to the top but no water will spill out.
This particular chart also shows that the energy use of a pump is fairly linear with the flow rate. This is true for all residential pool pumps. The higher the flow rate of the pump, the more energy that is used. However, flow rates tend to increase faster than the energy use which is why the energy factor of the pump as measured as gallons per Watt-hr, increases with increasing flow rate effectively reducing the energy consumption. However, there is a flow rate limit that a pump can produce which is called "run out" but most pool installations will never reach this limit because there is always at least some plumbing head loss.
Pump Speed
Typically, a single speed pump will operate at around 3450 RPM. But there can be significant advantages when running at lower RPM. The pump affinity equations can be used to determine how a pump's characteristics (e.g. head curve) will change with speed. So if the flow rate, head or hydraulic HP is known for any one speed A, it can be calculated for another speed B using the following formulas.
For example, low speed of a two speed pump has about 1/2 the flow rate as high speed and the affinity equations tell us that it requires only 1/8th the power of high speed. Unfortunately, two speed motors lose about half their efficiency at low speed so the energy use is only about 1/4th of high speed but still significant.
Current generation variable speed pumps provide even more cost savings over their two speed counterparts. Plus, given the range in RPM settings, the pump can be optimized for the given pool plumbing. The flexibility of a variable speed pump ensures a maximum energy factor for nearly any operating condition. Plus, current US DOE regulations pretty much dictate the exclusive use of VS pumps. Larger single speed and two speed pumps (>0.711 HHP) can no longer be manufactured in the US with few exceptions.
Plumbing Head Curves
Much like a pump, a plumbing system also has a head curve which is usual identified as a "Plumbing Curve" or a "System Curve". And much like a pump's head curve, the plumbing curve is parabolic in shape and when plotted over a pump's head curve, crosses the pump's head curve at a single point which is called the "operating point". The plumbing curve of any plumbing system may be approximated by this simple formula:
Head (ft) = k * GPM^2
Where k is the plumbing curve constant that is dependent on the configuration of the plumbing system. The plumbing curve "standards" are defined as:
The following chart shows an example of a pump head curve along with several plumbing curves overlayed on top. The intersection of the plumbing curve with the pump's head curve is defined as the operating point.
Hydraulics 101 - Pump Head Curves, Plumbing Head Curves and Operating Points
Hydraulic Head
Hydraulic Head is a term that originated in the water distribution industry and relates to the "head" or top of the water level. It is also another way of expressing the amount of pressure (PSI=pounds per square inch) lost or gained in a plumbing system. For example, a pool pump adds head or pressure to the plumbing system while the friction loss in piping and equipment removes head or decreases pressure in system. In addition, there are two basic types of head loss and gain in any plumbing system; Static Head and Dynamic Head.
Static head is the net elevation change of the water which can be either positive or negative and is directly related to the height of the water. So water moving from a higher elevation to a lower elevation has head gain while water moving from a lower elevation to a higher elevation has head loss. For example, a pool solar system installed on a roof and where the panels/pipes are primed and completely filled with water, there is static head loss when the water rises to the roof but then there is also static head gain when the water falls back to the ground. The static head loss on the way up is directly offset by the static head gain on the way down so there is no net static head change due to the fact that the solar is installed on the roof. However, there can be temporary static head loss or gain during the priming process where there is head loss due to the elevation lift but since the return pipe is not yet full of water, there is no static head gain to offset it.
The second component of head is dynamic head loss which is due to the friction loss of water inside of pipes, fittings and other equipment. As water travels through a pipe, the friction against the internal structures reduces pressure. A pool's plumbing system will experience dynamic head loss on both the suction side of the pump and return side of the pump since water is moving through plumbing on both sides. The faster water moves through a pipe, the more head loss there will be. A pool pump adds dynamic head gain to the plumbing system so as to create positive pressure and thus water flow through the pipes. The dynamic head loss in the pipes then reduces the pressure until the water returns to the pool where the pressure is once again at 0 PSIr (PSI relative to atmospheric pressure).
A common mistake made by some that are new to hydraulics is to assume that the head loss in plumbing is equal to the length of pipe since they both use the same units. While the dynamic head loss in plumbing is related to the length of pipe, it does not equal it. Addition factors are necessary to calculate the head loss in plumbing and can be quite challenging to accomplish.
In summary, pumps and elevation drops add head to a plumbing system while elevation rises, pipes, fittings, valves, filter, heaters, etc. subtract head from a system. For a swimming pool, the total head loss is always equal to the pump's head gain since the water is returned to the same atmospheric pressure as where it came from.
Pump Head Curves
A residential pool pump is actually made up of two separate "machines". The first machine is often called the "wet end" and this is the part that actually pumps the water and converts rotational energy into flow and pressure. The second machine is the electric motor which converts electrical energy into rotational energy and drives the wet end. Together, these two machines make up a residential pool pump.
Most manufactures of pumps include head curves in their pump manuals and/or sell sheets. The curves have two axes, Feet of Head vs. Gallons per Minute (GPM). Feet of head is used instead of PSI because a centrifugal pump will always deliver the same head for any liquid of any density while the PSI will be different for different liquids and/or densities so traditionally, manufactures have used head instead of PSI.
The head curve is useful in determining the flow rate of the pump if the head loss of the plumbing system is known. Below is an example of a head curve for the Pentair Intelliflo published by the manufacture.
The maximum head of the pump is reached when the flow rate is near zero GPM and at full RPM. This is equivalent to an equal length of open ended pipe straight up in the air. The pump will fill the pipe to the top but no water will spill out.
This particular chart also shows that the energy use of a pump is fairly linear with the flow rate. This is true for all residential pool pumps. The higher the flow rate of the pump, the more energy that is used. However, flow rates tend to increase faster than the energy use which is why the energy factor of the pump as measured as gallons per Watt-hr, increases with increasing flow rate effectively reducing the energy consumption. However, there is a flow rate limit that a pump can produce which is called "run out" but most pool installations will never reach this limit because there is always at least some plumbing head loss.
Pump Speed
Typically, a single speed pump will operate at around 3450 RPM. But there can be significant advantages when running at lower RPM. The pump affinity equations can be used to determine how a pump's characteristics (e.g. head curve) will change with speed. So if the flow rate, head or hydraulic HP is known for any one speed A, it can be calculated for another speed B using the following formulas.
- GPM B = GPM A * (RPM B / RPM A)
- Head B = Head A * (RPM B / RPM A) ^ 2
- Hydraulic HP B = Hydraulic HP A * (RPM B / RPM A) ^ 3
For example, low speed of a two speed pump has about 1/2 the flow rate as high speed and the affinity equations tell us that it requires only 1/8th the power of high speed. Unfortunately, two speed motors lose about half their efficiency at low speed so the energy use is only about 1/4th of high speed but still significant.
Current generation variable speed pumps provide even more cost savings over their two speed counterparts. Plus, given the range in RPM settings, the pump can be optimized for the given pool plumbing. The flexibility of a variable speed pump ensures a maximum energy factor for nearly any operating condition. Plus, current US DOE regulations pretty much dictate the exclusive use of VS pumps. Larger single speed and two speed pumps (>0.711 HHP) can no longer be manufactured in the US with few exceptions.
Plumbing Head Curves
Much like a pump, a plumbing system also has a head curve which is usual identified as a "Plumbing Curve" or a "System Curve". And much like a pump's head curve, the plumbing curve is parabolic in shape and when plotted over a pump's head curve, crosses the pump's head curve at a single point which is called the "operating point". The plumbing curve of any plumbing system may be approximated by this simple formula:
Head (ft) = k * GPM^2
Where k is the plumbing curve constant that is dependent on the configuration of the plumbing system. The plumbing curve "standards" are defined as:
- Curve-A which represents fairly restrictive plumbing typical of an AG pool or an IG pool with 1.5" pipe size. k = 0.0167
- Curve-B which represents extremely high head loss conditions. Not many pools would fall in this category. k = 0.05
- Curve-C which represents less restrictive plumbing typical of pools using 2" pipe size. k = 0.0082
- Curve-D which represents less restrictive plumbing typical of pools using 2.5" pipe size. k = 0.0041
- Curve-E which represents less restrictive plumbing typical of pools using 3" pipe size. k = 0.00205
The following chart shows an example of a pump head curve along with several plumbing curves overlayed on top. The intersection of the plumbing curve with the pump's head curve is defined as the operating point.
Questions on closed fiberglass pool...
- By Casey
- Swimming Pool Start-up and Closing
- 11 Replies
Attachments
New Build in The Woodlands TX - Update: Landscaping!
- By pjt
- Under Construction
- 177 Replies
Getting ready for a new PB build in The Woodlands, TX. I'd love feedback, so please critique the design. Can't wait to get started!
Overview:
47' x 23' Free-form Pool (no spa)
4'-5'-4' Depth Profile
12" Shelf
2 x Benches
~21k Gallons
Pentair Equipment:
IntelliFlo Pump 011028
520 Clean & Clear Plus Filter 160332
UltraTemp Heat Pump/Chiller 460958 AquaCal Variable Speed SQ150VS Heat Pump/Chiller (w/ bypass)
IntelliCenter Load Center 522041 w/ i5P Personality Kit 521909 & Wi-Fi Bridge 522475Z
IC60 SWG 521105
5 x MicroBrite Color LED Lights (all facing away from the house)
Plumbing:
2 Skimmers w/ 2.5" Pipe (each separately plumbed to the pad)
8 Returns w/ 2.5" Pipe for the long segment back to the pool
Unions for all equipment at the pad
Minimum 18" straight pipe before the SWG
Center water feature 3 x sheers & 2 x flanking Venetian bronze spouts embedded in wall
No Main Drain
No Suction Port
1/2" Injection Port for Stenner Pump (after SWG)
Jandy Neverlube Valves
Fill line controlled by sprinkler controller (as a zone)
Overflow line
Electrical:
Pentair Load Center (w/ HEPD 80 surge protection)
GFCI at pad and pavilion
Extra 2" empty conduit to pavilion
Light at equipment pad
Volt Lighting 300W landscape lighting transformer
7 x Volt Lighting hardscape lights embedded in wall
Deck:
1,100 square feet white travertine Versailles pattern
Deck and area drains w/ 4" drain pipes to street
Contrasting travertine coping
Removable hand rail
Miscellaneous:
Pentair Warrior SE Robot Cleaner
12' x 12' Pavilion w/ 2 x sconces, 2 x ceiling flood lights, 4 x can lights, ceiling fan, GFCI outlets
5 x Umbrella sleeves
Backyard faces east (pool will be mostly in the shade during the hot Texas afternoon)
Overview:
47' x 23' Free-form Pool (no spa)
4'-5'-4' Depth Profile
12" Shelf
2 x Benches
~21k Gallons
Pentair Equipment:
IntelliFlo Pump 011028
520 Clean & Clear Plus Filter 160332
IntelliCenter Load Center 522041 w/ i5P Personality Kit 521909 & Wi-Fi Bridge 522475Z
IC60 SWG 521105
5 x MicroBrite Color LED Lights (all facing away from the house)
Plumbing:
2 Skimmers w/ 2.5" Pipe (each separately plumbed to the pad)
8 Returns w/ 2.5" Pipe for the long segment back to the pool
Unions for all equipment at the pad
Minimum 18" straight pipe before the SWG
Center water feature 3 x sheers & 2 x flanking Venetian bronze spouts embedded in wall
No Main Drain
No Suction Port
1/2" Injection Port for Stenner Pump (after SWG)
Jandy Neverlube Valves
Fill line controlled by sprinkler controller (as a zone)
Overflow line
Electrical:
Pentair Load Center (w/ HEPD 80 surge protection)
GFCI at pad and pavilion
Extra 2" empty conduit to pavilion
Light at equipment pad
Volt Lighting 300W landscape lighting transformer
7 x Volt Lighting hardscape lights embedded in wall
Deck:
1,100 square feet white travertine Versailles pattern
Deck and area drains w/ 4" drain pipes to street
Contrasting travertine coping
Removable hand rail
Miscellaneous:
Pentair Warrior SE Robot Cleaner
12' x 12' Pavilion w/ 2 x sconces, 2 x ceiling flood lights, 4 x can lights, ceiling fan, GFCI outlets
5 x Umbrella sleeves
Backyard faces east (pool will be mostly in the shade during the hot Texas afternoon)
Odd question....
- The Deep End...
- 5 Replies
So, my postsurgery knee is still pretty swollen, and after a very active week, we decided it would be best for me to take it REALLY easy this weekend. I tell you this in explanation and a transparent bid for sympathy, so no one yells at me. 
Well, the kids want to come over, and Granna never says no to that, and we need to test the water and heat the spa.
Have I mentioned that all pool maintenance is Granna's job? So Hubby gets a water sample and brings me the kit so I can do the testing sitting down. PH high, Clorine high. Not surprising.
I decide to heroically put everything away myself, and rather than carry the case, two full test vials and the sample water back, I dump both (pink/red) vials of water back into the test water. I know, probably a bad idea, but it's done.
Here's my question: how bad a thing was it? The reason I ask is that red + red made GREEN. I haven't taken chemistry since a below par high school class. (Math and physics were my jam.)
Is this something I could do again and show the grandson? (At three, he counts the drops and notes the color change when I test)
Again, before the scolding begins, please remember I'm INJURED
.
Well, the kids want to come over, and Granna never says no to that, and we need to test the water and heat the spa.
Have I mentioned that all pool maintenance is Granna's job? So Hubby gets a water sample and brings me the kit so I can do the testing sitting down. PH high, Clorine high. Not surprising.
I decide to heroically put everything away myself, and rather than carry the case, two full test vials and the sample water back, I dump both (pink/red) vials of water back into the test water. I know, probably a bad idea, but it's done.
Here's my question: how bad a thing was it? The reason I ask is that red + red made GREEN. I haven't taken chemistry since a below par high school class. (Math and physics were my jam.)
Is this something I could do again and show the grandson? (At three, he counts the drops and notes the color change when I test)
Again, before the scolding begins, please remember I'm INJURED
.How much of a “close” in Raleigh, NC
- By Jenn13
- Swimming Pool Start-up and Closing
- 16 Replies
I’ve reviewed the closing procedures link, shared here.
but I’m trying to figure out where we fall into the levels of closing being here in Raleigh. We’ve been in Raleigh for almost 5 years. I’m that time, we’ve had 1 big snow & ice storm. But since, it’s just dusting of snow & some cold snaps I guess. Google tells me that January is the coolest month with the avg overnight temp of 29
so where does that leave me?
I had an AGP growing up in CT & I remember the pool being sealed tight for the winter. I just assumed it’d be the same.
So, I started purchasing:
Cover - Robelle 6024-4 Superior Winter... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010TS59LC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Pillow - Robelle 3748 Deluxe 4-foot x... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESYOFKU?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Even shrink wrap to seal it all up tight from the wind Winter Pool Cover Seal - for... Amazon.com : Winter Pool Cover Seal - for Above Ground Pools : Swimming Pool Covers : Patio, Lawn & Garden
Then, I went to the pool store to see if the had the skimmer cover I needed & they directed me to keep the pool open, on low - for the winter. They said to super shock it, put a cover on it & keep it running
So now I’m a bit confused.
Anyone is the Raleigh area have advice for what I should do with our weather?
In reading some here, I see some notes about checking things though the winter & I have to admit, I was hoping to have a little winter break from checking all the details of the water!
1st, I want to make sure the cover I got will work for a full close or this mild close…. I need to return it soon if it isn’t the right thing.
Any insight??
but I’m trying to figure out where we fall into the levels of closing being here in Raleigh. We’ve been in Raleigh for almost 5 years. I’m that time, we’ve had 1 big snow & ice storm. But since, it’s just dusting of snow & some cold snaps I guess. Google tells me that January is the coolest month with the avg overnight temp of 29
so where does that leave me?
I had an AGP growing up in CT & I remember the pool being sealed tight for the winter. I just assumed it’d be the same.
So, I started purchasing:
Cover - Robelle 6024-4 Superior Winter... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010TS59LC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Pillow - Robelle 3748 Deluxe 4-foot x... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESYOFKU?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Even shrink wrap to seal it all up tight from the wind Winter Pool Cover Seal - for... Amazon.com : Winter Pool Cover Seal - for Above Ground Pools : Swimming Pool Covers : Patio, Lawn & Garden
Then, I went to the pool store to see if the had the skimmer cover I needed & they directed me to keep the pool open, on low - for the winter. They said to super shock it, put a cover on it & keep it running
So now I’m a bit confused.
Anyone is the Raleigh area have advice for what I should do with our weather?
In reading some here, I see some notes about checking things though the winter & I have to admit, I was hoping to have a little winter break from checking all the details of the water!
1st, I want to make sure the cover I got will work for a full close or this mild close…. I need to return it soon if it isn’t the right thing.
Any insight??
Site Clearing Underway for NC Pool (In-Process Updates)
- By shashivr4
- Under Construction
- 56 Replies
I am looking to obtain feedback on our salt water pool design along with the specs which have been provided by PB#1. (we will also have others quote the same design). Please ignore the blue lines on the design document as they have been placed there to remove the name of the PB. After considering many designs over the course of the last year, we are finally getting close to pulling the trigger.
The lap pool is 14' x 41'. We are leaning towards a sports pool with 4' water depth throughout except for a 5' water depth section in the middle of the lap pool.
The spa is a 9' vanishing edge all the way around with 8 jets.
As you will notice on the specs document, the design includes 5 LED lights, 3 bubblers, and 5 jet decks.
PB#1 utilized Jandy equipment most of the time but Hayward as well (but less often than Jandy). I don't know much about pool equipment but certainly would like to control everything (pool, spa, heater, lights, bubblers, jet decks, etc) from my phone.
There will be mounts for a volleyball net in the middle of the lap pool. We will probably just buy a portable basketball goal and slide for the kids. Thoughts on this?
Also, do I need a heat pump in addition to a heater (located near Charlotte, NC)?
Any insight/feedback that can be provided on the design and/or specs is very welcomed. Thanks in advance!
The lap pool is 14' x 41'. We are leaning towards a sports pool with 4' water depth throughout except for a 5' water depth section in the middle of the lap pool.
The spa is a 9' vanishing edge all the way around with 8 jets.
As you will notice on the specs document, the design includes 5 LED lights, 3 bubblers, and 5 jet decks.
PB#1 utilized Jandy equipment most of the time but Hayward as well (but less often than Jandy). I don't know much about pool equipment but certainly would like to control everything (pool, spa, heater, lights, bubblers, jet decks, etc) from my phone.
There will be mounts for a volleyball net in the middle of the lap pool. We will probably just buy a portable basketball goal and slide for the kids. Thoughts on this?
Also, do I need a heat pump in addition to a heater (located near Charlotte, NC)?
Any insight/feedback that can be provided on the design and/or specs is very welcomed. Thanks in advance!
New Build - Houston, TX (Heights) - Finished Build!
- By Herkimer
- Under Construction
- 112 Replies
Attachments
-
84ebd19e1da292eb20201221-126911-d9vpe0.jpg -
4fa4b8a6abd5510f20201221-116741-1i7leur.jpg -
fb54d4c36b3117b820201221-99271-jw9voc.jpg -
313588139111765520201221-126869-172efa0.jpg -
0ecbaf40ed0e565f20201221-32845-h4p5qz.jpg -
0c508d216f929ecd20201221-99331-1lgozyo.jpg -
07773aaab9e6a59d20201221-126904-189n61o.jpg -
1b774276deed337320201221-32906-u4i24f.jpg -
ac2573d5e7ff91dc20201221-32861-1qmlpjo.jpg -
042d9f981c74527220201221-126897-a1npgt.jpg
White Spotting of New Plaster Pools
- By onBalance
- The Deep End...
- 15 Replies
The problem of plaster spotting has been an ongoing puzzle and controversy in the swimming pool industry for over three decades. The generally round, smooth-yet-unsightly white soft spots in new plaster pools have long been a source of contention among pool plasterers, and pool chemical service firms or pool owners, each blaming the other for the phenomenon.
From 1999 to 2003, onBalance provided several case studies to the plastering industry (performed by two respected cement labs) on white spotting (which some incorrectly name it "spot etching"). It was determined that white spotting was caused by several contributory elements, all due to improper plastering practices: too much calcium chloride added as a set accelerant; adding water to the hardening plaster surface; trowel-pressing the added water into the surface, creating porosity and micro-cracking in localized areas or spots, allowing for later water penetration deep into the plaster matrix; subsequent “rinsing” (non-aggressive leaching) of soluble plaster components (calcium hydroxide and calcium chloride) from the thus-compromised surface, and late hard troweling.
Over the course of the past year, onBalance undertook an additional project to help provide more definitive and sufficient evidence as to the cause.
A one year old spotted pool in Los Angeles was inspected by both an onBalance partner and by a pool plastering industry advocate (who incorrectly describes it as "spot etching" or "etching deterioration.") Both had produced written opinions on the pool in question, with the former implicating defective plastering workmanship and the latter implicating aggressive water chemistry.
At that point, onBalance drained the pool, and with representatives of the trade press, service members, and pool plasterers present, core sampled the pool, obtaining dozens of cores from a local area of a spotted pool wall. These samples were sent to four different cement failure-analysis laboratories for petrographic examination. Results have been obtained from Construction Technologies Laboratories (a subsidiary of the Portland Cement Association), the RJ Lee Group, Riverbend Petrographics, and Wiss, Janney, Elstner. Would these highly respected labs find consensus when independently analyzing plaster cores containing white spots from the same pool?
All four labs have now submitted reports on their analysis. Here is a summary of their findings:
1. The pool plaster contained more than 3 percent calcium chloride dehydrate, which is detrimental. (The allowable maximum is two percent, and zero for colored plaster).
2. The whitish spots were smooth to the touch, but under a microscope, the spots were shown to be porous, permeable, structurally weak and soft, with an abundance of micro-cracking and a high water-to-cement ratio.
3. The depth of the micro-cracking and porosity within the spots went as deep as 5 mm (.2 in. or 3/16th) and a diameter (width) of 15 mm (.6 in.)
4. The unaffected surface (cement paste) surrounding the spots was dense, hard, and smooth, and did not have a high water-to-cement ratio, the porosity, or the micro-cracking as found in the spots.
5. There was no evidence of aggressive water or chemical attack (relative to calcium carbonate) causing the spots. The surface surrounding the spots was not etched, but instead had been “carbonated” which provided further evidence that the surface had not been etched by aggressive water.
6. The improper adding of water during plaster finishing (troweling) causes excess porosity and micro-cracking within the spots. This in turn, provides an avenue (breach) for pool water to penetrate deeper into the plaster matrix and access soluble compounds causing continued loss of plaster material.
As indicated above, improper water chemistry did not cause the white spotting, and therefore, it should not be called "spot etching" or "etching deterioration." In fact, balanced pool water – and even water with a positive CSI value – will not stop this process from happening to a defective plaster surface. And depending on the severity of the improper plastering practices, spotting may occur within a week, but usually not until a few months down the road.
White spots have a smooth, yet porous surface. This is due to the loss of two soluble plaster components (calcium chloride and calcium hydroxide which comprise of about 15 – 20 percent of the cement) interspersed throughout the more durable materials. This results in a weakened, soft, and self-deteriorating surface. Porosity, and subsequent carbonation, creates a lighter (whiter) color in contrast to the surrounding denser and unaffected plaster surface.
While white soft spotting is somewhat visible in white plaster pools, it becomes more unsightly when the surrounding surface is off-white and slightly gray due to excess calcium chloride being added to the plaster mix. And since the spots are more porous than the surrounding plaster, it can also absorb copper or iron and become aqua or brown instead of white. Spotting is especially visible and objectionable when it occurs in dark colored plaster and colored quartz pools.
By comparison, aggressive water attacks and removes most plaster compounds from a dense and smooth surface, thereby causing a uniformly etched and roughened surface, similar to fine sandpaper, and with no significant change in color. As is known, when dark colored plaster pools are given various types of acid treatments, they do not turn white, nor do they spot.
The plastering industry has no study that proves that aggressive water causes random white spotting (or spot etching) on quality pool plaster. There seems to be little doubt that the cause of plaster spotting has been discovered, analyzed, identified and documented. See these threads: How White Pool Plaster Turns Blotchy
High CYA Levels Do Not Stain Plaster
For more information, see the following post: Being Blamed for Plaster Discolorations? Don't Get Hoodwinked
scientific-evidence-on-plaster-spotting-t57853.html
And: aggressive-water-versus-improper-pool-plastering-t51900.html
For proper plastering practices, see this post: ten-guidelines-for-quality-pool-plaster-t42957.html
For another helpful picture of white spotting, see this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/75287-Plaster-mottling-normal?p=690714#post690714
From 1999 to 2003, onBalance provided several case studies to the plastering industry (performed by two respected cement labs) on white spotting (which some incorrectly name it "spot etching"). It was determined that white spotting was caused by several contributory elements, all due to improper plastering practices: too much calcium chloride added as a set accelerant; adding water to the hardening plaster surface; trowel-pressing the added water into the surface, creating porosity and micro-cracking in localized areas or spots, allowing for later water penetration deep into the plaster matrix; subsequent “rinsing” (non-aggressive leaching) of soluble plaster components (calcium hydroxide and calcium chloride) from the thus-compromised surface, and late hard troweling.
Over the course of the past year, onBalance undertook an additional project to help provide more definitive and sufficient evidence as to the cause.
A one year old spotted pool in Los Angeles was inspected by both an onBalance partner and by a pool plastering industry advocate (who incorrectly describes it as "spot etching" or "etching deterioration.") Both had produced written opinions on the pool in question, with the former implicating defective plastering workmanship and the latter implicating aggressive water chemistry.
At that point, onBalance drained the pool, and with representatives of the trade press, service members, and pool plasterers present, core sampled the pool, obtaining dozens of cores from a local area of a spotted pool wall. These samples were sent to four different cement failure-analysis laboratories for petrographic examination. Results have been obtained from Construction Technologies Laboratories (a subsidiary of the Portland Cement Association), the RJ Lee Group, Riverbend Petrographics, and Wiss, Janney, Elstner. Would these highly respected labs find consensus when independently analyzing plaster cores containing white spots from the same pool?
All four labs have now submitted reports on their analysis. Here is a summary of their findings:
1. The pool plaster contained more than 3 percent calcium chloride dehydrate, which is detrimental. (The allowable maximum is two percent, and zero for colored plaster).
2. The whitish spots were smooth to the touch, but under a microscope, the spots were shown to be porous, permeable, structurally weak and soft, with an abundance of micro-cracking and a high water-to-cement ratio.
3. The depth of the micro-cracking and porosity within the spots went as deep as 5 mm (.2 in. or 3/16th) and a diameter (width) of 15 mm (.6 in.)
4. The unaffected surface (cement paste) surrounding the spots was dense, hard, and smooth, and did not have a high water-to-cement ratio, the porosity, or the micro-cracking as found in the spots.
5. There was no evidence of aggressive water or chemical attack (relative to calcium carbonate) causing the spots. The surface surrounding the spots was not etched, but instead had been “carbonated” which provided further evidence that the surface had not been etched by aggressive water.
6. The improper adding of water during plaster finishing (troweling) causes excess porosity and micro-cracking within the spots. This in turn, provides an avenue (breach) for pool water to penetrate deeper into the plaster matrix and access soluble compounds causing continued loss of plaster material.
As indicated above, improper water chemistry did not cause the white spotting, and therefore, it should not be called "spot etching" or "etching deterioration." In fact, balanced pool water – and even water with a positive CSI value – will not stop this process from happening to a defective plaster surface. And depending on the severity of the improper plastering practices, spotting may occur within a week, but usually not until a few months down the road.
White spots have a smooth, yet porous surface. This is due to the loss of two soluble plaster components (calcium chloride and calcium hydroxide which comprise of about 15 – 20 percent of the cement) interspersed throughout the more durable materials. This results in a weakened, soft, and self-deteriorating surface. Porosity, and subsequent carbonation, creates a lighter (whiter) color in contrast to the surrounding denser and unaffected plaster surface.
While white soft spotting is somewhat visible in white plaster pools, it becomes more unsightly when the surrounding surface is off-white and slightly gray due to excess calcium chloride being added to the plaster mix. And since the spots are more porous than the surrounding plaster, it can also absorb copper or iron and become aqua or brown instead of white. Spotting is especially visible and objectionable when it occurs in dark colored plaster and colored quartz pools.
By comparison, aggressive water attacks and removes most plaster compounds from a dense and smooth surface, thereby causing a uniformly etched and roughened surface, similar to fine sandpaper, and with no significant change in color. As is known, when dark colored plaster pools are given various types of acid treatments, they do not turn white, nor do they spot.
The plastering industry has no study that proves that aggressive water causes random white spotting (or spot etching) on quality pool plaster. There seems to be little doubt that the cause of plaster spotting has been discovered, analyzed, identified and documented. See these threads: How White Pool Plaster Turns Blotchy
High CYA Levels Do Not Stain Plaster
For more information, see the following post: Being Blamed for Plaster Discolorations? Don't Get Hoodwinked
scientific-evidence-on-plaster-spotting-t57853.html
And: aggressive-water-versus-improper-pool-plastering-t51900.html
For proper plastering practices, see this post: ten-guidelines-for-quality-pool-plaster-t42957.html
For another helpful picture of white spotting, see this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/75287-Plaster-mottling-normal?p=690714#post690714
Wood Project: Bedside Tables with Embedded Qi Charger
- By PoolGate
- The Coffee Bar
- 28 Replies
Finally finished this project!
Bought a house with a pool! Lots to learn
- By markymarkt
- Just Getting Started
- 9 Replies
Hi all,
I've recently bought a house with a pool and I'm now madly trying to work out how to maintain it.
I think I've added the necessary details to my signature but please let me know if I'm missing something.
Over the last few weeks after i took possession I've simply been adding 1/2 L liquid chlorine twice a week and vacuuming the pool daily based on the advice of a pool guy we had visit us.
It looks like this hasn't been sufficient and after a big storm on Friday which deposited a load of debris in the pool there is a very obvious green tinge to the pool - see photo below.
My test kit arrived yesterday, I'm in Australia so I've bought a Clear Choice Labs Total kit based on seeing it referenced in the forums here a few times.
My first test results taken just now are:
CYA - just above 30
FC - 1.5 ppm
CC - 1 ppm
pH - 7.8
TA - 100 ppm
CH - 125 ppm
Working my way through the forum here I think what i need to do is first lower the pH to 7.4 and then SLAM the pool. Am i on the right track here?
, inground
I've recently bought a house with a pool and I'm now madly trying to work out how to maintain it.
I think I've added the necessary details to my signature but please let me know if I'm missing something.
Over the last few weeks after i took possession I've simply been adding 1/2 L liquid chlorine twice a week and vacuuming the pool daily based on the advice of a pool guy we had visit us.
It looks like this hasn't been sufficient and after a big storm on Friday which deposited a load of debris in the pool there is a very obvious green tinge to the pool - see photo below.
My test kit arrived yesterday, I'm in Australia so I've bought a Clear Choice Labs Total kit based on seeing it referenced in the forums here a few times.
My first test results taken just now are:
CYA - just above 30
FC - 1.5 ppm
CC - 1 ppm
pH - 7.8
TA - 100 ppm
CH - 125 ppm
Working my way through the forum here I think what i need to do is first lower the pH to 7.4 and then SLAM the pool. Am i on the right track here?
, ingroundBlowing lines out with the cyclone
- By Bperry
- Swimming Pool Start-up and Closing
- 9 Replies
I can say the result is way better than my generic air compressor. That’s a 15 foot tall Geiser coming out the of the skimmer. 
This thing blew out the main drain easily as well and made it so easy to blow out the lines. Plan to also use it to winterize my lawn sprinkler system.
This thing blew out the main drain easily as well and made it so easy to blow out the lines. Plan to also use it to winterize my lawn sprinkler system.New Pool Build in Los Angeles
- Under Construction
- 118 Replies
Hello, we recently pulled the trigger and signed a contract with a pool builder for a new pool!
In 2019, we met with a couple different contractors, but we weren't falling in love with the designs, so spring 2020, we hired a company specifically to design something for us, based on their past projects. In nicer words, our project was too "small" $ for them to build, so we shopped our plans. Now that we have chosen a contractor and signed, it turns out we have expensive taste. We are turning it into a larger project as well, i.e., new driveway, outdoor bbq area, fire pit and seating, etc. etc. Photos below!
Generally wanted to know people's thoughts or red flags. (Should have done this before we signed, but oh well..). The designer created the plans on their end, and the contractor is now taking over and has submitted for permits. Should have near the end of the month allegedly. [Dig started June 15th!]
Its also of note that my husband did the majority of the correspondence with the contractor, so some specifics I had were not necessarily called out on here but I am under the impression that they are adjustable items. As far as plaster/pebble, I want something smooth, but it says pebble - does it come in smooth? I haven't done the research yet but plan to, or I want saltwater, PB doesn't recommend it but says it can be added later (is this true?), husband said PB recommends ozone or something...isn't that something entirely different? Again, more research on my part is needed. [EDIT: WE ARE GETTING SALTWATER AFTER LOTS OF TRYING TO CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE - I said salt was happening so she could charge us or we would buy it on my own. Builder is going to charge us.]
EDIT: I am removing the bid info because it is mostly irrelevant at this point and replacing with the equipment we have received thus far, please let me know if there is something we should change, thanks!
Pro Series ePump Variable-Speed Pump w/o controller 2.7HP - VSSHP270AUT
Cartridge Pool Filter - CV580
Pool & Spa Heater 400K BTU Natural Gas - JXI400N
Sub Panel Power Center - 6614-LD
Aqualink RS-PS6 Pool and Spa Control System - RS-PS6
iAqualink 2.0 Network Interference Module - IQ20 - I see there is a 3.0 out, do we need the 3.0??
AquaPalm 18 Channel Aqualink Wireless Handheld Remote - AQWHR18
Don't have box or have not received but noted to get or already installed
SWG
Jandy nichless lights
Autofill/overflow
Am I missing anything? Thanks again for everyone suggestions and opinions!
In 2019, we met with a couple different contractors, but we weren't falling in love with the designs, so spring 2020, we hired a company specifically to design something for us, based on their past projects. In nicer words, our project was too "small" $ for them to build, so we shopped our plans. Now that we have chosen a contractor and signed, it turns out we have expensive taste. We are turning it into a larger project as well, i.e., new driveway, outdoor bbq area, fire pit and seating, etc. etc. Photos below!
Generally wanted to know people's thoughts or red flags. (Should have done this before we signed, but oh well..). The designer created the plans on their end, and the contractor is now taking over and has submitted for permits. Should have near the end of the month allegedly. [Dig started June 15th!]
Its also of note that my husband did the majority of the correspondence with the contractor, so some specifics I had were not necessarily called out on here but I am under the impression that they are adjustable items. As far as plaster/pebble, I want something smooth, but it says pebble - does it come in smooth? I haven't done the research yet but plan to, or I want saltwater, PB doesn't recommend it but says it can be added later (is this true?), husband said PB recommends ozone or something...isn't that something entirely different? Again, more research on my part is needed. [EDIT: WE ARE GETTING SALTWATER AFTER LOTS OF TRYING TO CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE - I said salt was happening so she could charge us or we would buy it on my own. Builder is going to charge us.]
EDIT: I am removing the bid info because it is mostly irrelevant at this point and replacing with the equipment we have received thus far, please let me know if there is something we should change, thanks!
Pro Series ePump Variable-Speed Pump w/o controller 2.7HP - VSSHP270AUT
Cartridge Pool Filter - CV580
Pool & Spa Heater 400K BTU Natural Gas - JXI400N
Sub Panel Power Center - 6614-LD
Aqualink RS-PS6 Pool and Spa Control System - RS-PS6
iAqualink 2.0 Network Interference Module - IQ20 - I see there is a 3.0 out, do we need the 3.0??
AquaPalm 18 Channel Aqualink Wireless Handheld Remote - AQWHR18
Don't have box or have not received but noted to get or already installed
SWG
Jandy nichless lights
Autofill/overflow
Am I missing anything? Thanks again for everyone suggestions and opinions!
My "New" Pool in SCHERTZ, TX
- By TexasRain
- Under Construction
- 404 Replies
Hello all you fabulous people!
Here are page #s and links for the different parts of my build:
Excavation: PAGE 4
Rebar & Plumbing: PAGE 5
Soil Injections: PAGE 6
Gunite: PAGE 8
Coping and tile: PAGE 9
Deck Poured: PAGE 10
Tile Border: PAGE 11
Sundek: PAGE 12
Blue Surf Pebblesheen: Starts on PAGE 13
Leak!
: PAGE 17
Finished Backyard "RockScaping": PAGE 21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are in Schertz, TX about 25 miles NE of San Antonio.
We started planning for an inground pool in 2015 when we first bought our home, then the pool got put on hold so we could install solar panels on the house. We have put a lot of thought into what we want and thanks to TFP, the research is mostly all in one place!!
I have created multiple pool designs! I am a graphic designer and I am loving this design part!! I think we have finally agreed on a design that we ALL like, but would appreciate any suggestions. We have had 6 PBs come out to the house and 3 PBs that said they could do a virtual quote with my survey and a few pictures of my yard… We received 5 quotes back. Being ghosted by a PB, so 2020!
One PB stood out to us in a good way, he was not pushy and seems very helpful and honest with giving us all the info and stepping back to let us choose.
It's me, my husband, and our 2 daughters (10 &19). Us girls are a little vertically challenged (nah, we are just short! I'm 5'2")
We love the simple rectangle geometric design. A swim lane for laps. (Husband wants to get back to swimming for exercise) The sun shelf is for me! The girls only care if there is water in the pool.
I am super excited because my new job is a full time remote W@H position!! Whoo Hooo! I can be home and watch every minute of the build, I cannot wait! And then I'll be designing poolside!
Here are things we are planning on.
Thanks y'all!
Here are page #s and links for the different parts of my build:
Excavation: PAGE 4
Rebar & Plumbing: PAGE 5
Soil Injections: PAGE 6
Gunite: PAGE 8
Coping and tile: PAGE 9
Deck Poured: PAGE 10
Tile Border: PAGE 11
Sundek: PAGE 12
Blue Surf Pebblesheen: Starts on PAGE 13
Leak!
: PAGE 17Finished Backyard "RockScaping": PAGE 21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are in Schertz, TX about 25 miles NE of San Antonio.
We started planning for an inground pool in 2015 when we first bought our home, then the pool got put on hold so we could install solar panels on the house. We have put a lot of thought into what we want and thanks to TFP, the research is mostly all in one place!!
I have created multiple pool designs! I am a graphic designer and I am loving this design part!! I think we have finally agreed on a design that we ALL like, but would appreciate any suggestions. We have had 6 PBs come out to the house and 3 PBs that said they could do a virtual quote with my survey and a few pictures of my yard… We received 5 quotes back. Being ghosted by a PB, so 2020!
One PB stood out to us in a good way, he was not pushy and seems very helpful and honest with giving us all the info and stepping back to let us choose.
It's me, my husband, and our 2 daughters (10 &19). Us girls are a little vertically challenged (nah, we are just short! I'm 5'2")
We love the simple rectangle geometric design. A swim lane for laps. (Husband wants to get back to swimming for exercise) The sun shelf is for me! The girls only care if there is water in the pool.
I am super excited because my new job is a full time remote W@H position!! Whoo Hooo! I can be home and watch every minute of the build, I cannot wait! And then I'll be designing poolside!
Here are things we are planning on.
- Saltwater chlorine generator - Intellichlor (IC40)
- Size: 40'x 10'
- Sun shelf w/stairs outside pool dimensions: 12'x8', 14" water depth, shelf even with the 2nd step
- Pool depth: 4' - 5' (1st 20' shallow end = 4' / 10' of slope = 4'-> 5' / last 10' "deep" end = 5')
- Perimeter: 114'
- Area: 491 sqft
- Gallons: 13,868
- Tile swim lane - dashed line with waterline tile
- 3" Tile trim accent border around 3 sides of the pool with cut waterline tile
- Heater/chiller (plumb for now, add later)
- LED color lights (3 in pool, 1 in shelf) Pentair
GlobritesMicrobrites - Automation -
EasyTouch P-4EasyTouch 8 w/screenlogic - Variable speed pump - Pentair VSF 3HP
- Cartridge filter - Pentair C&C 420
- 2 skimmers - Venturi
- Autofill & Overflow
- Robot cleaner
Thanks y'all!
Attachments
Las Vegas - Pool, Spa & Sunken Kitchen | We have water!
- By Brian420
- Under Construction
- 116 Replies
Attachments
-
1C6FDCF6-FDBC-46C4-892F-D123C04BE7D2.jpeg -
576D004B-A78B-4717-A7F7-EB6A2AB309CC.jpeg -
8C0A29F0-D790-4722-9C5F-42807089276C.jpeg -
0B7581E8-4D4E-4CBF-9AF8-7CB5935DD850.jpeg -
F7B62ACA-BF16-486D-AD5C-268495A9239D.jpeg -
9B79224C-62E3-40F2-8897-25FCC153373A.jpeg -
25E26F95-6718-48AB-BFC5-DF7D7E95EEC0.jpeg -
257F0B49-8766-414F-A3E3-0B79663DABC4.jpeg -
6DBBE6F2-5EAD-475E-99C8-FB7143A057ED.jpeg -
4B43C6FC-F872-483C-ACF9-716DE2902147.jpeg