Site Clearing Underway for NC Pool (In-Process Updates)

shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
I am looking to obtain feedback on our salt water pool design along with the specs which have been provided by PB#1. (we will also have others quote the same design). Please ignore the blue lines on the design document as they have been placed there to remove the name of the PB. After considering many designs over the course of the last year, we are finally getting close to pulling the trigger.

The lap pool is 14' x 41'. We are leaning towards a sports pool with 4' water depth throughout except for a 5' water depth section in the middle of the lap pool.

The spa is a 9' vanishing edge all the way around with 8 jets.

As you will notice on the specs document, the design includes 5 LED lights, 3 bubblers, and 5 jet decks.

PB#1 utilized Jandy equipment most of the time but Hayward as well (but less often than Jandy). I don't know much about pool equipment but certainly would like to control everything (pool, spa, heater, lights, bubblers, jet decks, etc) from my phone.

There will be mounts for a volleyball net in the middle of the lap pool. We will probably just buy a portable basketball goal and slide for the kids. Thoughts on this?

Also, do I need a heat pump in addition to a heater (located near Charlotte, NC)?

Any insight/feedback that can be provided on the design and/or specs is very welcomed. Thanks in advance!

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ajw22

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TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,831
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Your 400K gas heater will do fine. You don't need to also have a HP.

We need to know model numbers for pumps. LED lights, salt generator. heater, automatic pool cleaner to comment if they are good or bad.

How will the two pumps be used? One for the main filter heater? The second for the water features or for a dedicated spa jet pump?

With 8 spa jets you will get stronger water pressure with a dedicated spa pump then relying on the main pump running through the filter and heater.

Have them list what colors are the standard no upcharge.

Five deck jets? Many folks find the deck jets noisy and get rarely used after the novelty wears off.

Have individual diverter valves put on each water feature line so you can balance them and adjust their flows.

I don't see the automation system that will give you phone app control of your pool.




 

JJ_Tex

Gold Supporter
Bronze Supporter
Jul 17, 2019
2,541
Prosper, TX (DFW)
Pool Size
13000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Certainly a unique design, I like it. My only question would be the entry/exit from the spa. Are the "stepping stones" across the tanning ledge submerged? If so, I would reconsider that since you will be walking through cold water getting to/from the spa.

I would also make sure that the distance from the stepping stone to the spa step is easy to get to with 1 step, so you avoid stepping on the tile which can be slippery.
 

shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
Your 400K gas heater will do fine. You don't need to also have a HP.

We need to know model numbers for pumps. LED lights, salt generator. heater, automatic pool cleaner to comment if they are good or bad.

How will the two pumps be used? One for the main filter heater? The second for the water features or for a dedicated spa jet pump?

With 8 spa jets you will get stronger water pressure with a dedicated spa pump then relying on the main pump running through the filter and heater.

Have them list what colors are the standard no upcharge.

Five deck jets? Many folks find the deck jets noisy and get rarely used after the novelty wears off.

Have individual diverter valves put on each water feature line so you can balance them and adjust their flows.

I don't see the automation system that will give you phone app control of your pool.





Thanks for the feedback! Even though a heat pump may not be required, should I have the PB plan for a future installation (ie: run the utilities now) in the event it is indeed determine at a later date we need a heat pump or is that something that can be done easy enough later?

Regarding the model #s for the various pool equipment, PB#1 is stating due to COVID and the impact it has had on supplies, they are unable to provide the specific brand and model #s any longer. However, PB#1 did provide the following information? Does this suffice? What else should I ask for?

1) Jandy brand will be utilized if available (if not Hayward)
2) Both pumps will be 2 HP and variable speed
3) Cartridge will be 580 sq ft
4) Automation will include a phone app
5) Heater will be 400k BTU
6) No information on LED lights
7) No information of the salt generator

Thanks again!
 

shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
Certainly a unique design, I like it. My only question would be the entry/exit from the spa. Are the "stepping stones" across the tanning ledge submerged? If so, I would reconsider that since you will be walking through cold water getting to/from the spa.

I would also make sure that the distance from the stepping stone to the spa step is easy to get to with 1 step, so you avoid stepping on the tile which can be slippery.
Thanks for the feedback! We love the design too. I will make sure that the top of the stepping stones leading to the spa are high enough where they are not emerged fully in water. Great catch!

Thanks again!
 

TampaKathy

Gold Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
579
Tampa, FL
Thanks for the feedback! Even though a heat pump may not be required, should I have the PB plan for a future installation (ie: run the utilities now) in the event it is indeed determine at a later date we need a heat pump or is that something that can be done easy enough later?

Regarding the model #s for the various pool equipment, PB#1 is stating due to COVID and the impact it has had on supplies, they are unable to provide the specific brand and model #s any longer. However, PB#1 did provide the following information? Does this suffice? What else should I ask for?

1) Jandy brand will be utilized if available (if not Hayward)
2) Both pumps will be 2 HP and variable speed
3) Cartridge will be 580 sq ft
4) Automation will include a phone app
5) Heater will be 400k BTU
6) No information on LED lights
7) No information of the salt generator

Thanks again!
I wouldn't accept this. I would tell him you would like him to include what assumptions he used for pricing and tell him if that piece of equipment isn't available when it's needed, you can discuss an exchange. This is too general in my opinion. Or wait and see what other PB's give you and go back to this one and say, "Ok, assume this equipment." In addition to finding out what "standard" means for colors, etc, find out what the upcharges are for other levels/colors...can be many thousands of dollars. Do you have room to go longer than 41 feet?
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,593
NY
Hey shas !!

1) Everyone had their preference and it’s the GM/Ford/Dodge debate. If you don’t already have a brand, chances are you’ll like whatever they give you because you will find the car gets you to the store GREAT. The supply chain has been insane this year and many folks have had to take what’s available.

2). 3HP pumps move more water at less RPM saving in the long run on both electric and pump life. A small upgrade cost now in the grand scheme of things.

3). Awesome !! If it changes to Hayward equipment it might drop a few sq ft to 520 (?). It’s all good. Get the biggest of any brand. They don’t clean any better but it adds time between deep cleanings. You are paying your future self here. Treat yo self.

4). Neat to have for sure if you’re getting all the other bells / whistles

5). Awesome. Heating takes BTUs. Get the biggest (400k) and it takes less time (energy) to do the same work.

6). Do your homework on the LED brand. They are good for 10k hours but that’s the LED diode itself. The electronics overheat and blow for many brands yearly or every other year. They can be expensive to replace. Overall they are not really suited for enclosed pool niches and/or wet environments. But they look awesome, so there is that.

7). You want a unit rated for 2X or more of your gallons. They are rated for 24/7 runtime. With a 2X unit you’ll only have to run it 12 hours to achieve the same chlorine production. They have a given lifespan based upon hours in use. Half the hours needed (or less) means double the lifespan. It’s usually a 20% charge to go the next size up. Going 20 to 40k for example gets double the life for 20% more cost. Going 40k to 60k gets 50% more life at 20% more cost. The math works GREAT in your favor here.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,831
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks for the feedback! Even though a heat pump may not be required, should I have the PB plan for a future installation (ie: run the utilities now) in the event it is indeed determine at a later date we need a heat pump or is that something that can be done easy enough later?

If you want to plan for a possible future HP then you want to have a 60 amp electrical circuit available at the equipment pad for the HP and space on the equipment pad to place the HP. You want an automation system that can control a dual gas heater and HP setup.

This gets into the issue below which is if you don't know what equipment you are getting you have no way to judge how compatible it is and how well the equipment can operate together.

Regarding the model #s for the various pool equipment, PB#1 is stating due to COVID and the impact it has had on supplies, they are unable to provide the specific brand and model #s any longer. However, PB#1 did provide the following information? Does this suffice?

Depends how picky you are and if you are willing to accept a sub-optimal pool system where everything does not work as well as it could. You are playing pot luck with your pool equipment. Maybe the builder will give you a well thought out integrated set of pool equipment. Or maybe you will get a hodge podge of equipment that does not communicate well. I would pin down the builder on what is acceptable to you and what is not acceptable.

Typically the automation, VS pump, LED lights and SWG should come from the same manufacturer and work together. Filters are a commodity and don't connect to automation.

If you want the possibility of a gas heater and a HP then you want then both to communicate with your automation and probably all be from the same vendor.

What else should I ask for?

You need to decide what you are willing to accept and if the builder will give you veto power over equipment he wants to give you.
 
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shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
And where is the house in reference to the pool? Make sure lights are not going to be facing you shinning in your eyes.
Please see below for a prelim hardscape plan (plantings still to be added). As always, welcome any feedback.

FYI: We didn't utilize the space behind the house due to the current topography (large slope) and ultimately we wanted to avoid the cost and potential headaches of a retaining wall.

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shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
I have received prelim information from PB#2, he uses Hayward equipment with the Omni system for the automation (including landscape lighting). Having a very functional (ex: independent control of each set of lights, actuators, and relays) and a easy to use UI is extremely important to us. How does the Omni system compare to the IntelliCenter (by Pentair) or iAquaLink (by Jandy)?

In addition, PB#2 is going to quote the following quantities of each item (versus PB#1 shown in parenthesis):

1) Returns = 6 (4)
2) Skimmer = 3 (2)
3) Main drains = 2 (2)
4) Bubblers = 2 (3)
5) Deck jets = 4 (5)

Even though PB#2 is providing less bubblers and deck jets (which I'm fine with), they are providing more returns and skimmers. Same # of main drains. Thoughts?

Thanks again for the thoughtful feedback! It certainly makes us feel better about our decisions as we move forward to selecting a PB and ultimately a dig date.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,831
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I would want to know where PB2 intends to put the 3 skimmers and 6 returns given your unique pool shape. In a regular shaped pool that would be overkill and 2 and 4 are plenty good. Maybe he gave your design some thought. Or maybe not.

Which Omni system? Hayward has OmniLogic, OmniHub, OmniPL...

I would rank UI's by best ease of use to worst...
  1. IntelliCenter
  2. OmniPL
  3. iAqualink
  4. OmniLogic
ex: independent control of each set of lights, actuators, and relays

Check that the system specified can support the number of light circuits, actuators, and relays you want.
 
Last edited:

shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
I would want to know where PB2 intends to put the 3 skimmers and 6 returns given your unique pool shape. In a regular shaped pool that would be overkill and 2 and 4 are plenty good. Maybe he gave your design some thought. Or maybe not.

Which Omni system? Hayward has OmniLogic, OmniHub, OmniPL...

I would rank UI's by best ease of use to worst...
  1. IntelliCenter
  2. OmniPL
  3. iAqualink
  4. OmniLogic


Check that the system specified can support the number of light circuits, actuators, and relays you want.

PB#2 is claiming the OmniPL is not sufficient to meet the needs of our pool and that the OmniLogic will be required.
 

shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
Good morning! PB#2 has provided the additional information regarding pool equipment:

Every pool they build is spec'd out by the distributor and some of the following could change, but only in a better way not downgraded.

1) Pumps = Two 950 TriStar Pumps
2) Filters = C7030 Swim Clear Cartridge Filter (or similar Jandy filter)
3) Automation System = OmniLogic
4) Heater 400,000 BTU Hayward
5) Lights = 6 LED lights in pool and 1 in spa
6) Salt generator = AquaPlus Hayward
 

KCNM

Silver Supporter
May 20, 2021
235
Tampa Bay, FL
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
Everyone else is taking good care of you. I just wanted to chime in that I love this design and I hope to see pictures of it built!
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
29,831
Northern NJ
Pool Size
35000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Good morning! PB#2 has provided the additional information regarding pool equipment:

Every pool they build is spec'd out by the distributor and some of the following could change, but only in a better way not downgraded.

1) Pumps = Two 950 TriStar Pumps
2) Filters = C7030 Swim Clear Cartridge Filter (or similar Jandy filter)
3) Automation System = OmniLogic
4) Heater 400,000 BTU Hayward
5) Lights = 6 LED lights in pool and 1 in spa
6) Salt generator = AquaPlus Hayward

That is about as good as it gets for a Hayward system.
 

shashivr4

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
36
Charlotte, NC
Good afternoon! As the title of the thread states, I am looking for any feedback and advice prior to signing our pool contract. We have a tentative dig date in Mid March (2022) so it will be approaching relatively quickly. Please see below for both our pool design and pool specs. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

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Thanks in advance!
 

PoolGate

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TFP Guide
Jun 7, 2017
6,627
Damascus, MD
Pool Size
29000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
You need specific equipment specified. Model number of pump, heater, swg, and especially WHAT VERY SPECIFIC MODEL AQUALINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW MANY PEOPLE GET SCREWED ON THIS DETAIL.
 
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.ben

Active member
Jul 28, 2020
32
Katy, TX
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Beautiful pool design!
I would not sign until I knew what pebble finish is being used. Contract states PebbleTec or Stonescapes. If PebbleTec is used will they install PebbleTec product or PebbleSheen. Many people seem to prefer PebbleSheen which is more expensive. What colors are “Standard” and what colors are an upgrade and what is the cost to upgrade? (For my pool the cost from level 1 PebbleSheen to level 2 is $1500)

I prefer the look of glass waterline tile but many people are very happy with ceramic. Glass is more expensive so something to think about now.
 

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