What new heater for me?

[ajw22]

That is less than fully closed. But you are right it really started max flow perhaps 15 or 20 degrees before that. I can play with is when the auto valve is installed. Good new is pump was at 2250 in heater mode, in bypass mode with valve not fully move there, I could lower the pump from 2250 to about 1650, it went from about 700 watts to about 350 watts in bypass!! WOW!!

Now you understand.

 

[ajw22]

Buy don't I want to run the spa at a higher rate to have the water (and air) come in more forcefully). Some how it sucks in air, I think near the spa suction pipe. There is an open pipe nearest the Intellicenter.

Sounds like your spa was built with a venturi air pipe.

Put a piece of duct tape over the air pipe opening to reduce the air into the pipe.

Show me a picture of the pipe.

 

[ride525]

Sounds like your spa was built with a venturi air pipe.

Put a piece of duct tape over the air pipe opening to reduce the air into the pipe.

Show me a picture of the pipe.

I think air pipe is upper right of picture.
What will effect be of reducing air flow?

 

[ajw22]

I think air pipe is upper right of picture.

That looks like a spa venturi air pipe.

What will effect be of reducing air flow?

It may give you a more balanced water and air flow mix that you like better.

You can give it a try. If you don't like it then remove the tape.

 

[ride525]

Half blocked testing tonight. Edit. We seemed to like the flow just fine with air half blocked, and lower pump speed, (2750 rather than the hight 3000 or 3400.). Maybe I will get a 2" PVC valve, $11 at Amazon, to fine tune this.

Also, Heater started up with Vis-Flo valve showing less than 40 gpm. I raised pump speed to have the Vis Flo show about 40 GPM

 

[ride525]

I am trying to take you through this step by step.



If you looked on the Circuits page Heater will not show up there since it is not a circuit you created.

I am doing this by memory since my IntelliCenter is shut for the winter.

On the Pump Speed page you should have an ADD button on the bottom to add speeds for additional circuits. Click that and then you get fields to fill in. There is a pulldown list for the Circuit you want and there should be an entry for Heater or MasterTemp depending on how your heater is setup.

Should we go back to this now? Help to know what we are trying to accomplish. Thanks

 

[ajw22]

Should we go back to this now? Help to know what we are trying to accomplish. Thanks

I thought you got your heater pump speed added.

 

[ride525]

I thought you got your heater pump speed added.

The way the builder set things up, there is speed for the spa, and a speed for the pool. Then you turn either of them "ON", and select "heater" if you want to heat the water at that speed. I need to figure out circuits so I can select a slow, medium, fast speed for the pool. Usually not using heater for pool. Usually, maybe always us heater when in spa mode.

 

[ajw22]

for adding circuits, I see Pool Heater, Spa Heater, and Heater.

The way the builder set things up, there is speed for the spa, and a speed for the pool. Then you turn either of them "ON", and select "heater" if you want to heat the water at that speed.

The heater circuits you found let you set the pump to run at a higher speed then the POOL or SPA is set to when the heater is on.

 

[ajw22]

I need to figure out circuits so I can select a slow, medium, fast speed for the pool. Usually not using heater for pool. Usually, maybe always us heater when in spa mode.

See below I have PUMP 2400 and PUMP 1800 circuits to run my pool at those speeds. My default POOL speed is 1400 and SPA is 1500.

Create a Feature Circuit with whatever name you want. Then come to the PUMPS page and set the speed you want for the feature circuit. Turn on the feature circuit when you want to run your POOL or SPA at that speed.

 

[ride525]

I don't think you followed my instructions exactly and watched your PSI gauge as you s owly closed the valve and stopped when the PSI stopped dropping.


You have the bypass open and the heater fully closed.

Your filter PSI should have stopped dropping before the heater was fully closed.

I have a question related to this. We established that this picture shows the bypass near 100%, and there was 20 or so degrees before this when the GPM started reaching peak. Isn't it best to keep the heater flow minimal, so not so much pool water is causing heater wear and tear? So position the vave for a heater trickle, instead of when GPM happens to be maximized? Thanks

 

[ajw22]

Isn't it best to keep the heater flow minimal, so not so much pool water is causing heater wear and tear? So position the vave for a heater trickle, instead of when GPM happens to be maximized? Thanks

Maximum GPM is not be flowing through your heater when valve set to bypass heater. Should be about 70-80% bypassing the heater and 20-30% flowing through the heater on bypass.

No. With proper water chemistry water flow through the heater does not cause wear and tear to the heat exchanger as long as the flow is below the heater maximum flow rate.

 

[ride525]

Maximum GPM is not be flowing through your heater when valve set to bypass heater. Should be about 70-80% bypassing the heater and 20-30% flowing through the heater on bypass.

No. With proper water chemistry water flow through the heater does not cause wear and tear to the heat exchanger as long as the flow is below the heater maximum flow rate.

Well, does it need to be 20-30% through the heater? What about 10%? As long as there is heater flow? What if you were doing a SLAM?

 

[ajw22]

Well, does it need to be 20-30% through the heater? What about 10%? As long as there is heater flow?

You can run your pool anyway you want.

What if you were doing a SLAM?

SLAM water chemistry does not damage heaters.

 

[ride525]

You can run your pool anyway you want.


SLAM water chemistry does not damage heaters.

Of course i can run my pool anyway I want. I'm on TFP to get advice, and sometimes folks might wonder why. I was looking for reason for 20%-30%. Being it's my pool, I think I will shoot for 19.573%

 

[ajw22]

I was looking for reason for 20%-30%.

The diverter is a coarse adjustment. You cannot tell exactly what % is being bypassed. 20% to 30% is a decent range to shoot for.

I explained to you how to determine the optimum setting using your filter PSI gauge.

I also told you that shutting the heater flow more than that made no difference.

Do what you will with the advice supplied.

 

[ride525]

The diverter is a coarse adjustment. You cannot tell exactly what % is being bypassed. 20% to 30% is a decent range to shoot for.

I explained to you how to determine the optimum setting using your filter PSI gauge.

I also told you that shutting the heater flow more than that made no difference.

Do what you will with the advice supplied.

I appreciate you advice. I was really surprised at how much I could lower speed when with heater in bypass.

 

[ride525]

Started my new MasterTemp 400 heater tonight for the spa. Set speed at 2000 rpm just to check. Pump starts up at 3000 rpm, then drops to 2500 (Priming Speed), then down to 2000. Heater immediately starts and contiues to run. My FlowVis says 2000rpm is about 25gpm, Pentair specs say it needs 40gpm.

What's going on here? It seemed fine at 25gpm, and continued to heat. Ended up with 2700 rpm, just under 40 gpm. Why not run pump at more efficient slower speed? It sure seems to work.

Sorry, Mods moved this to existing thread, where one has to sort through all the heater recommedations, bypass valve discussion, efficiency, etc., just to see this new post.

 

[ajw22]

What's going on here? It seemed fine at 25gpm, and continued to heat. Ended up with 2700 rpm, just under 40 gpm. Why not run pump at more efficient slower speed? It sure seems to work.

Heater outlet temperature is inversely proportional to flow rate.

The slower the water flow, the higher the water temperature in the heater and at the heater outlet will be. Read Heater Maintenance - Further Reading

The minimum flow rate is to not weaken the pipes, or internal heater components, with high water temperatures.

This is what can happen to PVC with water that is too hot...

 

[ride525]

Ok, I have another question. This time about my spa spillover. It is currently set up so when in spa mode, the suction and return valves are set full 100% to spa. When in pool mode the suction is 100% pool, return is mostly pool, with a bit to spa. Thus the overflow. But the aeration is likely to rasise pH. Is there way to run pool mode with 100% pool suction and return lines, and briefly every day in spillover mode..