Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!

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You have to do the final acid etch as that is the only way to expose the pebble aggregate. Without the acid etch it would just look like a thin layer of plaster smeared over the pebbles. In fact, you would not see the pebbles which are integral to color and look of any pebble type coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
onBalance said:
Okay, I feel better knowing that the plasterer wouldn't use the type of start-up process to void a warranty.
So as Brian has suggested, it would be beneficial and easiest to add small amounts of bicarb as the pool is filling.

It is possible to determine the flow rate of your backyard water faucet by filling a 30 gallon plastic barrel and timing it.
Then perhaps by timing, after every 1000 gallons has entered the new pool, add 1.4 lbs of sodium bicarbonate to a bucket of water and add to the pool to increase the TA by 100 ppm (I hope I have my math right). Then brush around any undissolved bicarb.

What worries me is that an acid washed pebble pool "etches" the cement portion of the surface. An etched surface is more prone to calcium staining which would show up more so in a colored pebble finish. I do not want to cause any scaling conditions with the addition of the Bicarb. That is the other concern I initially had. Let me think more about this for a day or two. Perhaps there are other options and solutions.
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Thanks for this. I have not scheduled my plaster yet as I want to have the fence installed before I fill with water, and the fence is at least 3 weeks out (unless I just go ahead with the water without the fence.) So I have time to work out the details. As I said before, I just want to do what's best for the pebble finish, but I'm not so wedded to the bicarbonate startup that I want to go ahead with it if there can be negative repercussions. So, lay on the expert advice and I'm at your service! :)
 
onBalance said:
Okay, I feel better knowing that the plasterer wouldn't use the type of start-up process to void a warranty.
So as Brian has suggested, it would be beneficial and easiest to add small amounts of bicarb as the pool is filling.

It is possible to determine the flow rate of your backyard water faucet by filling a 30 gallon plastic barrel and timing it.
Then perhaps by timing, after every 1000 gallons has entered the new pool, add 1.4 lbs of sodium bicarbonate to a bucket of water and add to the pool to increase the TA by 100 ppm (I hope I have my math right). Then brush around any undissolved bicarb.

What worries me is that an acid washed pebble pool "etches" the cement portion of the surface. An etched surface is more prone to calcium staining which would show up more so in a colored pebble finish. I do not want to cause any scaling conditions with the addition of the Bicarb. That is the other concern I initially had. Let me think more about this for a day or two. Perhaps there are other options and solutions.
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In a pebble finish, the pebbles themselves are largely responsible for the color of the surface. I know in my pool the actual plaster color has a lot of variation but isn't all that apparent due to the consistency of the pebble colors. I can see your concern with calcium staining, but so long as too much bicarb isn't added at one time (so the CSI never gets above +0.5 or so), and no calcium is added during the start up period, I doubt there is much chance of discoloration. It is somewhat forgiving when filling the pool if too much bicarb is added, it is quickly lowered by the volume of water that is continually being added. Even if scaling levels were reached, it would not appear instantly anyway and again be quickly diluted. I would prefer to see her test every hour or so and add what is needed to maintain a CSI on the higher side as opposed to shoot for a target amount of sodium bicarbonate.


MarianParoo said:
Jamie: does your PB insist on the acid wash? Would canceling that process void any warranty? When is the acid wash scheduled? (How much time does onBalance have to ponder?)

FYI: a good friend of mine wanted to do the bi-carb set-up and talked to his PB about it. The PB had never heard of it. My buddy copied some links from TFP on the process and included onBalance's site: PoolHelp

The PB was so intrigued that they went for it! My friend was SO happy knowing he had the best possible finish!
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I have seen one plaster contractor install a pebble finish without an acid wash. He used mechanical brushes to expose the aggregate. I've never seen anyone else do it since and never saw the finished product so I don't really know how it turned out.

JoyfulNoise said:
You have to do the final acid etch as that is the only way to expose the pebble aggregate. Without the acid etch it would just look like a thin layer of plaster smeared over the pebbles. In fact, you would not see the pebbles which are integral to color and look of any pebble type coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
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Agreed...


I wonder how much of this is over complicating things. There are thousands of pools out there with pebble finishes that were poorly installed, used an acid startup, and are poorly chemically maintained that last for 20+ years. I am still a strong advocate for the bicarb startup but I often question how critical the startup process is in a pebble pool.
 
bdavis466 said:
I wonder how much of this is over complicating things. There are thousands of pools out there with pebble finishes that were poorly installed, used an acid startup, and are poorly chemically maintained that last for 20+ years. I am still a strong advocate for the bicarb startup but I often question how critical the startup process is in a pebble pool.
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Probably a discussion best left for The Deep End but I will add this - since most of the exposed area of a Pebble finish is exposed stone (aggregate), the surface, in my opinion, is mechanically harder and more stable. A plaster surface only has the hardened cement as its primary mechanical barrier. Not only are stones more wear-resistant than plaster but I would think the the aggregate can arrest crack formation more easily. Gross defects and application errors are certainly still possible with pebble type surfaces but color variations and mottling are less noticeable to the untrained eye.

Or, as one fellow put it to me once - "A good PebbleTek finish can hide a multitude of sins..."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
It does make me wonder. I've heard several times in the last month of plaster contractors installing pebble finishes and giving no concern to start up procedures and still offering a full warranty. That really says a lot for the finish since a warranty issue would be a significant expense for the contractor to repair or replace, particularly if the issue was no fault of their own.
 
Our concrete deck was poured and completed today! It's over 1300 sq ft. We would love to be able to coat it in a light tan spray deck product, but that will probably have to wait. We have to do a lot of regrading around the yard and pool, plus resurrect the sprinkler system in the back yard so all that will add up. We met with a couple of guys to do the job over the past two days, so hopefully we can line someone up soon. Extending the deck drain piping farther out in the yard has to happen first, then regrading, then fencing, and finally sprinklers. Somewhere in there we can do the interior of the pool, but as it stands now, I'm still thinking of waiting until after the fence is up just for my peace of mind with the kids.

Here are some pics of the completed job. (The slide is set out in the dirt beyond the decking, waiting for the concrete to cure for 28 days before installation. We needed to assemble it so we could position it during the deck framing to ensure the water stub was coming out of he concrete at the right location.)



 
Hey! Tell that dude with the leaf blower to get his dirty boots the heck off your nice clean coping!!! Tell them all they have to wear the disposable hospital booties ;)

Love the raw, uncluttered look of the backyard; makes you dream up so many different landscape/hardscape scenarios. It's going to be a fabulous oasis for you and the kids :D

Nice Job!!

Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 

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I'm so excited for you! Awesome day...the outdoor experience that deck (not to mention the pool) will provide is really something to look forward too.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Hey! Tell that dude with the leaf blower to get his dirty boots the heck off your nice clean coping!!! Tell them all they have to wear the disposable hospital booties ;)

Love the raw, uncluttered look of the backyard; makes you dream up so many different landscape/hardscape scenarios. It's going to be a fabulous oasis for you and the kids :D

Nice Job!!

Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
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Yeah, I know! They had taped off the coping with plastic to keep it clean, but it still got a little messy. Fortunately they cleaned up really well after themselves.

As for the back yard, "raw" is a very good way to describe it, especially in it's current state! I have to admit, gardening and landscaping are not my strengths, so I'll be soliciting ideas on those too when the time comes! :)

needsajet said:
I love the kid who is full of anticipation and triple-checking the exit angle of the slide! :splash:
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kimkats said:
LOL with the kid on the slide! "day dreaming" at it's finest!

Have you "bonded" with your patio yet (misting it?)

Kim
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Haha! Just to be clear.... That "kid" was not one of mine! It was one of their workers waiting for his turn to do something. I never saw it happen, but much to the dismay of my own kids, one of the workers (I'm guessing the young guy sitting in the slide) supposedly went down the slide several times. I had forbidden my children from climbing on it since it's not secured to anything and I didn't want any accidents (however unlikely). I guess the worker proved it's safe to slide down where it is!

I had recently read about misting the concrete, but I was unsure of when to start and figured I'd wait until tomorrow to be safe. Thanks for the reminder though!
 
bmoreswim said:
I'm so excited for you! Awesome day...the outdoor experience that deck (not to mention the pool) will provide is really something to look forward too.
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Thanks! We are all pretty excited about how the summer will shape up. It will sure beat hauling everyone off the the local YMCA with their less-than-TFP-quality water when we want to swim!
 
JamieP said:
Yeah, I know! They had taped off the coping with plastic to keep it clean, but it still got a little messy. Fortunately they cleaned up really well after themselves.

As for the back yard, "raw" is a very good way to describe it, especially in it's current state! I have to admit, gardening and landscaping are not my strengths, so I'll be soliciting ideas on those too when the time comes! :)
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Oh man, I LOVE to garden!! I'm envisioning copper-clad cedar, raised-bed planter boxes all over your yard with tomatoes, cucumber, green beans, bell peppers (and some decorative habaneros too!!), zucchini and eggplant....then we'll plant sugar snap peas, spinach and radishes in the cooler weather with lots of boxes and ceramic pots full of flowering perennials....there could even be a little citrus in that yard as everyone needs their own Persian lime tree and Meyer lemons......
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Oh man, I LOVE to garden!! I'm envisioning copper-clad cedar, raised-bed planter boxes all over your yard with tomatoes, cucumber, green beans, bell peppers (and some decorative habaneros too!!), zucchini and eggplant....then we'll plant sugar snap peas, spinach and radishes in the cooler weather with lots of boxes and ceramic pots full of flowering perennials....there could even be a little citrus in that yard as everyone needs their own Persian lime tree and Meyer lemons......
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So when can I fly you out and how much do you charge? ;-)
 
Marlahoutex said:
Matt, it's possible she's too far north for citrus.

- - - Updated - - -

Now I know who to ask for landscaping ideas!!!
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We can always do citrus in a large pot and keep it pruned back to a reasonable size. The trick is to cover it during a frost and, what I like to do, use a contractor lamp with a low-wattage heat bulb to keep it warm. You can also put a string of the "old fashioned" look (long wire filament) outdoor lights in them as that provides a descent amount of warmth....

- - - Updated - - -

Ahhh!! Figs!! I forgot about the fig trees!!!
 

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