Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!

[JamieP]

I ALWAYS chase a tooled joint with a partner saw and diamond dry blade. (a circular saw with a concrete blade will work, but you'll be at it a while). I've seen countless times where the inevitable shrinkage crack happens ALONG SIDE of a tooled joint. This cut must be made as soon as the concrete will cut without raveling, but under no circumstances should it be more than 24 hours after the pour. The cut should be at least 1 inch deep to assure that the slab is weakened enough, as compared to the surrounding concrete to assure the crack happens where you want it. And as Brian has advised before, the less water in the mix, the less shrinkage will occur.

Your concrete will only turn out as well as the finishers working it. If they're in a hurry and close up the surface too early (before the bleed water rises) or if they are constantly "baptizing" it with a water-soaked brush, you will get spalling and delamination. It happens more frequently up north where there are multiple freeze/thaw cycles, but it can happen in any climate.

In closing, the best thing you can do is keep your concrete damp the first week of the cure. Light misting (and I mean light, during the first couple days) will keep the concrete damp and aid in hydration. (Concrete doesn't dry, it CURES). This will also slow the shrinkage rate and limit stress cracking. In other words, bond with your slab, as some here like to put it .

Thank you, BigE. This is all very helpful.

Snap Cap makes a nice clean expansion joint ready for sealant, such as a Sonneborn NP-1.
http://www.wrmeadows.com/plastic-joint-materials/

Thanks! I will check this out. Looks like the pour will be Friday.

 

[JamieP]

The experts will have to let me know what the ramifications will be for my pool fill (especially if I do a Bicarbonate Startup) but here are my test results from my tap water.

FC= 2.0
CC= 0.5
PH = 7.3
TA = 140
CH = 180

Does anything jump out as being of concern?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, your water utility needs to cut down on the chlorine!! Sheesh, that water must taste yucky

Other than that, your TA is a little higher than mine but your CH is way better. You'll be fine. You'll probably need to bump up the CH and TA a bit for a bicarbonate startup so start pricing out sources of calcium chloride. TA is easily raised with baking soda.

pH is a bit low. You might PM onBalance at some point and ask him for his thoughts on how to treat your aggressive water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

 

[JamieP]

Yeah, your water utility needs to cut down on the chlorine!! Sheesh, that water must taste yucky

Other than that, your TA is a little higher than mine but your CH is way better. You'll be fine. You'll probably need to bump up the CH and TA a bit for a bicarbonate startup so start pricing out sources of calcium chloride. TA is easily raised with baking soda.

pH is a bit low. You might PM onBalance at some point and ask him for his thoughts on how to treat your aggressive water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

Thanks for the tips, Matt. Yeah, our water tastes pretty bad, but we have filters on everything that we drink from, so I don't have to taste it that often.

I'll PM OnBalance soon and see what he has to say to help me out.

Oh... What is calcium chloride and where would I go about trying to find some? Thanks!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks for the tips, Matt. Yeah, our water tastes pretty bad, but we have filters on everything that we drink from, so I don't have to taste it that often.

I'll PM OnBalance soon and see what he has to say to help me out.

Oh... What is calcium chloride and where would I go about trying to find some? Thanks!

Yeah, that's some pretty high FC for tap water. Normally, municipal water is delivered to the home with an FC less than 1.0ppm (my water is about 0.8ppm FC). Some municipalities chloraminate water (i.e., intentionally add chloramine to the water) which also acts as a disinfectant but is somewhat controversial...you can smell CCs much more than FC.

Anyway, neither here nor there at the moment....

Calcium chloride (either anhydrous or dihydrate form) is what one uses to raise the calcium hardness of pool water....it's also the primary component of road salt. If you should need to raise your CH, then you want to find as pure a form of it as possible because road salt and road de-icer blends are very often a mixture of calcium chloride, magnesium chloride and sodium chloride. You really only want CaCl2. You can get the stuff (usually) at pool stores for a pretty good markup. Or, you can get it online at The Chemistry Store - Calcium Chloride Anhydrous - ChemistryStore.com

Pro-tip - You always premix calcium chloride in a 5 gallon bucket of water (watch out, it's exothermic and it get HOT) and broadcast the mixture around your pool with your pump on high speed to help it mix. Calcium products often cause temporary water cloudiness which will usually clear as it dilutes and mixes.

 

[JamieP]

Yeah, that's some pretty high FC for tap water. Normally, municipal water is delivered to the home with an FC less than 1.0ppm (my water is about 0.8ppm FC). Some municipalities chloraminate water (i.e., intentionally add chloramine to the water) which also acts as a disinfectant but is somewhat controversial...you can smell CCs much more than FC.

Anyway, neither here nor there at the moment....

Calcium chloride (either anhydrous or dihydrate form) is what one uses to raise the calcium hardness of pool water....it's also the primary component of road salt. If you should need to raise your CH, then you want to find as pure a form of it as possible because road salt and road de-icer blends are very often a mixture of calcium chloride, magnesium chloride and sodium chloride. You really only want CaCl2. You can get the stuff (usually) at pool stores for a pretty good markup. Or, you can get it online at The Chemistry Store - Calcium Chloride Anhydrous - ChemistryStore.com

Pro-tip - You always premix calcium chloride in a 5 gallon bucket of water (watch out, it's exothermic and it get HOT) and broadcast the mixture around your pool with your pump on high speed to help it mix. Calcium products often cause temporary water cloudiness which will usually clear as it dilutes and mixes.

Wow, glad I asked! I would never have known any of that. Thanks!

 

[MarianParoo]

I presume.... But I sent onBalance a PM for you. You are such a sweetheart and we GOTTA beat that baby to the finish line!

 

[JamieP]

I presume.... But I sent onBalance a PM for you. You are such a sweetheart and we GOTTA beat that baby to the finish line!

Thanks, Marian! I don't mind at all. I just woke up thinking about having that at the top of my list of things to do, so I appreciate having it taken care of for me!

 

[JamieP]

My birthday is this Sunday (40! Ahhh! ;-) ) and my husband wants to get me this: Pentair ScreenLogic Interface and Wireless Connection Kit 522104 | Pentair 522104

It's the Pentair ScreenLogic interface and Wireless Connection Kit 522104. I just want to make sure this is what we need to operate the EasyTouch 8 from inside the house (mac computer or IPad) before we buy it. Thanks!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

My birthday is this Sunday (40! Ahhh! ;-) ) and my husband wants to get me this: Pentair ScreenLogic Interface and Wireless Connection Kit 522104 | Pentair 522104

It's the Pentair ScreenLogic interface and Wireless Connection Kit 522104. I just want to make sure this is what we need to operate the EasyTouch 8 from inside the house (mac computer or IPad) before we buy it. Thanks!

Your husband just made Brian the happiest guy in the world

Oh, and Happy Birthday!!!

Matt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

 

[bdavis466]

My birthday is this Sunday (40! Ahhh! ;-) ) and my husband wants to get me this: Pentair ScreenLogic Interface and Wireless Connection Kit 522104 | Pentair 522104

It's the Pentair ScreenLogic interface and Wireless Connection Kit 522104. I just want to make sure this is what we need to operate the EasyTouch 8 from inside the house (mac computer or IPad) before we buy it. Thanks!

That will do the trick...

On another note, hit up the plaster guy for calcium chloride. He no doubt has plenty and gets it for very cheap. Maybe start with around 100 pounds and see where that gets you.

 

[bdavis466]

Your husband just made Brian the happiest guy in the world

Oh, and Happy Birthday!!!

Matt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

Ha! Oddly enough all of the promotion I've done for ScreenLogic and mine took a dive on me. It ended up getting handled under warranty but to quit in less than a years time was a little more than disheartening.

 

[bdavis466]

Jaime, I wouldn't worry too much about your low pH. With new plaster and the very high TA levels you will need to maintain during the startup, the low pH will prove to be a good thing. That water is very aggressive though...

 

[JamieP]

Your husband just made Brian the happiest guy in the world

Oh, and Happy Birthday!!!

Matt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

Haha! My husband will be pleased... A two-fer! (Happy wife, happy Brian ;-) )

And thanks for the birthday wishes. I joke that the whole pool is my birthday present!

That will do the trick...

On another note, hit up the plaster guy for calcium chloride. He no doubt has plenty and gets it for very cheap. Maybe start with around 100 pounds and see where that gets you.

Good idea on the plaster guy as a source for the calcium chloride. I will look into that.

Ha! Oddly enough all of the promotion I've done for ScreenLogic and mine took a dive on me. It ended up getting handled under warranty but to quit in less than a years time was a little more than disheartening.

Ouch! Glad to hear it was still under warranty.

Jaime, I wouldn't worry too much about your low pH. With new plaster and the very high TA levels you will need to maintain during the startup, the low pH will prove to be a good thing. That water is very aggressive though...

Thanks for the reassurance. I need to go back and reread how all of these readings work together to make a balanced pool. It's so much different when it really applies to your own pool water!

 

[onBalance]

Wow! This is a long thread! But I have only read this page.
You may not need any calcium chloride. Need to wait until the pool is filled and then test the calcium level. If the Calcium content doesn't rise any, it will only require 10 lbs. or less.

According to your PM to me, the plasterer is going to acid wash your pebble finish and the calcium level may rise immediately.

This is going to shock some TFP people, but I advise not to do anything to the tap water. It is just fine as it is. Just allow the plasterer to fill your new pool, and then test the water and balance according to TFP guidelines. This is a pebble pool and will be acid washed. Acid washing negates a lot of the benefits of a Bicarb Start-up.

You are better off not doing anything out of the ordinary due to warranty issues with your plasterer. Inform him of the tap water readings and ask him if he is okay with that water being used to fill the pool. Keep him involved and responsible.

Oh yea, Happy Birthday!

 

[Nursenini]

Happy birthday blessings, Jamie!!!

I am calling my pool/backyard my birthday present as well. I turned 50 in October and we signed a couple weeks after that, plus hubby didn't get me anything.

 

[bdavis466]

Wow! This is a long thread! But I have only read this page.
You may not need any calcium chloride. Need to wait until the pool is filled and then test the calcium level. If the Calcium content doesn't rise any, it will only require 10 lbs. or less.

10 pounds would get her to 250 (based on average volume) and yields roughly a -0.4 CSI.

to your PM to me, the plasterer is going to acid wash your pebble finish and the calcium level may rise immediately.

This is going to shock some TFP people, but I advise not to do anything to the tap water. It is just fine as it is. Just allow the plasterer to fill your new pool, and then test the water and balance according to TFP guidelines. This is a pebble pool and will be acid washed. Acid washing negates a lot of the benefits of a Bicarb Start-up.

I am surprised to hear this. I understand the need for a bicarb start-up with typical plaster since there is no acid wash and plaster dust is usually a huge issue. The acid wash on a pebble finish, or at least my limited understanding, would remove the initial and slightly cured layer of calcium carbonate from the surface, expose the underlying layer to the somewhat aggressive fill water that was posted above, and potentially pull excess calcium from the surface. Wouldn't she see all the benefits of the bicarb start-up in this instance or is the acid wash that detrimental to the surface that the procedures used afterward provide little or no benefit?

are better off not doing anything out of the ordinary due to warranty issues with your plasterer. Inform him of the tap water readings and ask him if he is okay with that water being used to fill the pool. Keep him involved and responsible.

In a previous post, Jaime stated she spoke with her plaster contractor and he was comfortable with any start-up method she chooses. I don't recall a mention or warranty though.

 

[JamieP]

Wow! This is a long thread! But I have only read this page.
You may not need any calcium chloride. Need to wait until the pool is filled and then test the calcium level. If the Calcium content doesn't rise any, it will only require 10 lbs. or less.

According to your PM to me, the plasterer is going to acid wash your pebble finish and the calcium level may rise immediately.

This is going to shock some TFP people, but I advise not to do anything to the tap water. It is just fine as it is. Just allow the plasterer to fill your new pool, and then test the water and balance according to TFP guidelines. This is a pebble pool and will be acid washed. Acid washing negates a lot of the benefits of a Bicarb Start-up.

You are better off not doing anything out of the ordinary due to warranty issues with your plasterer. Inform him of the tap water readings and ask him if he is okay with that water being used to fill the pool. Keep him involved and responsible.

Oh yea, Happy Birthday!

Well, that makes it easy! Thanks for your input, OnBalance. I don't know if it would affect your advice above or not, but I asked my plasterer specifically about my warranty and he said that it isn't affected by what startup method I use, after his role is done with the acid wash. He said a startup with pebble is really easy, and he'd be more concerned if I was having a quartz finish installed.

What are your thoughts on the acid wash? I know this is their typical practice for pebble pools. If someone were to do a bicarbonate startup, would they typically not have the acid wash done? I don't want to give myself more work if it is really unnecessary, but I am prepared to do what it takes to get the best start to my plaster if it would be worth it.

- - - Updated - - -

Happy birthday blessings, Jamie!!!

I am calling my pool/backyard my birthday present as well. I turned 50 in October and we signed a couple weeks after that, plus hubby didn't get me anything.

Thanks, Denise! And happy belated birthday to you - a milestone birthday too!

 

[onBalance]

Okay, I feel better knowing that the plasterer wouldn't use the type of start-up process to void a warranty.
So as Brian has suggested, it would be beneficial and easiest to add small amounts of bicarb as the pool is filling.

It is possible to determine the flow rate of your backyard water faucet by filling a 30 gallon plastic barrel and timing it.
Then perhaps by timing, after every 1000 gallons has entered the new pool, add 1.4 lbs of sodium bicarbonate to a bucket of water and add to the pool to increase the TA by 100 ppm (I hope I have my math right). Then brush around any undissolved bicarb.

What worries me is that an acid washed pebble pool "etches" the cement portion of the surface. An etched surface is more prone to calcium staining which would show up more so in a colored pebble finish. I do not want to cause any scaling conditions with the addition of the Bicarb. That is the other concern I initially had. Let me think more about this for a day or two. Perhaps there are other options and solutions.

 

[MarianParoo]

Jamie: does your PB insist on the acid wash? Would canceling that process void any warranty? When is the acid wash scheduled? (How much time does onBalance have to ponder?)

FYI: a good friend of mine wanted to do the bi-carb set-up and talked to his PB about it. The PB had never heard of it. My buddy copied some links from TFP on the process and included onBalance's site: PoolHelp

The PB was so intrigued that they went for it! My friend was SO happy knowing he had the best possible finish!