- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thank you, ladies! Yes, it is quite a relief, and a blessing too, if it all works out like the guy says. I'm confident it will.
Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!
- Thread starter JamieP
- Start date
Jamie,
In regards to the water balancing and start-up issue, Brian is very persuasive. Your tap water should be adjusted somewhat as it fills the pool.
So I do think that the balancing of the water while being filled is the easiest way to do things right. You won't need a big barrel to put any bicarbonate into, and wonder if the rate of dissolution is correct. Just the add the bicarb as the pool is being filled as I outlined in my previous post. Of course, Brian may a have better idea.
In regards to the water balancing and start-up issue, Brian is very persuasive. Your tap water should be adjusted somewhat as it fills the pool.
So I do think that the balancing of the water while being filled is the easiest way to do things right. You won't need a big barrel to put any bicarbonate into, and wonder if the rate of dissolution is correct. Just the add the bicarb as the pool is being filled as I outlined in my previous post. Of course, Brian may a have better idea.
The method I've used (this is with pebble finishes) is once the spa has been been acid washed, time how long it takes for the spa to completely fill. You can watch the water meter to determine gallonage or mathematically figure the volume. I chose the spa because it is typically filled first (while the pool is still being acid/pressure washed) and the volume is so much less than the pool. Most spas are right around 1,000 gallons anyway so that makes the math even easier.
Once you know how much time it takes to add XXX gallons to the pool, you can use that number on an hourly basis, check the pH and TA of the water added to the pool so far and plug it into PoolMath with the gallonage that is adjusted on the time the pool has been filling. Based on water temperature (somewhat constant) and CH (I've never seen it change during a fill), adjust the pH to maintain 7.8-8.0 (no more, no less) and add bicarb (diluted in a 5 gallon bucket) to maintain a TA level that yields a CSI of +0.3-+0.4. By doing this, the water is oversaturated with calcium carbonate in a sufficient amount to provide more than what is needed for the plaster to happily cure, and not enough to cause scale (as well as provide a small margin for fluctuations in pH which can and will QUICKLY rise).
The spa should be treated as a separate body of water and tested and balanced until the pool is full.
This really only works with a plaster surface that has been allowed to set up for 24 hours (pebble, quartz and acid washed surfaces) since it can be walked on down into the pool without causing any issues. In a plain plaster pool being immediately filled, you would have to use an improvised long-handled ladle to scoop water samples from the pool and add acid without causing damage to the plaster.
Pools without spas would need to use another method to figure out the GPM being supplied to the pool. Most of the time a guesstimate is close enough and is easily manipulated based on test results. Be prepared to go through a lot of TA reagents!
Once you know how much time it takes to add XXX gallons to the pool, you can use that number on an hourly basis, check the pH and TA of the water added to the pool so far and plug it into PoolMath with the gallonage that is adjusted on the time the pool has been filling. Based on water temperature (somewhat constant) and CH (I've never seen it change during a fill), adjust the pH to maintain 7.8-8.0 (no more, no less) and add bicarb (diluted in a 5 gallon bucket) to maintain a TA level that yields a CSI of +0.3-+0.4. By doing this, the water is oversaturated with calcium carbonate in a sufficient amount to provide more than what is needed for the plaster to happily cure, and not enough to cause scale (as well as provide a small margin for fluctuations in pH which can and will QUICKLY rise).
The spa should be treated as a separate body of water and tested and balanced until the pool is full.
This really only works with a plaster surface that has been allowed to set up for 24 hours (pebble, quartz and acid washed surfaces) since it can be walked on down into the pool without causing any issues. In a plain plaster pool being immediately filled, you would have to use an improvised long-handled ladle to scoop water samples from the pool and add acid without causing damage to the plaster.
Pools without spas would need to use another method to figure out the GPM being supplied to the pool. Most of the time a guesstimate is close enough and is easily manipulated based on test results. Be prepared to go through a lot of TA reagents!
Good to hear about your deck Jamie! I know how excited you're getting, and can't wait to see you filling up. Awesome!!!
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks, Brian and OnBalance. With my concerns over the concrete, I had kind of forgotten about how the startup was going to go!
Unfortunately I won't be able to follow the thorough plans Brian laid out since I don't have a spa, but we should be able to figure out some way to calculate gallons/hour (or minute since the biggest thing I can think of using to fill is our big garbage can on wheels.). I'll have to read and reread the instructions to fully grasp them and how the chemical additions work, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.
Thanks, Patrick! I just heard that the concrete owner will be out tomorrow to take a look. I have to be gone during part of the day, so I hope he happens to be here while I'm home.
I've got my drainage/regrading guy scheduled for next Tuesday and the fence lining up for soon after that. So maybe we won't be too far from plaster after all!
Unfortunately I won't be able to follow the thorough plans Brian laid out since I don't have a spa, but we should be able to figure out some way to calculate gallons/hour (or minute since the biggest thing I can think of using to fill is our big garbage can on wheels.). I'll have to read and reread the instructions to fully grasp them and how the chemical additions work, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.
Thanks, Patrick! I just heard that the concrete owner will be out tomorrow to take a look. I have to be gone during part of the day, so I hope he happens to be here while I'm home.
I've got my drainage/regrading guy scheduled for next Tuesday and the fence lining up for soon after that. So maybe we won't be too far from plaster after all!
You really don't need that level of precision, it just means testing the water a little more often to see what each addition is doing. There is no reason why you couldn't do it based on rough gallonage estimates or off of what the meter says. What OnBalance suggested would make the process even more simple but I feel it is a little less reliable and because of that, you'd have to be pretty conservative with your chemical additions.
I don't want to scare you away from this. It sounds a little intimidating but really isn't all that difficult.
I don't want to scare you away from this. It sounds a little intimidating but really isn't all that difficult.
Jamie, I would tell them they could NOT come out between x and y as you will need to be there to talk to them. They should work with your on this.
Kim
Kim
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I have a drip from my salt cell:
It is along the seam near the top where the cover slides back and forth. This is new.
The weather has finally warmed up here enough for me to repressurize the system and I put it to 30 psi. It was very slowly ticking down and the previous spots where I had air leaks seemed to be ok. The only thing that had changed since when it last held pressure was when the decking guys moved the pipe for the slide and had to make new connections. So I wondered if there might be a small leak from that pipe under the concrete or something. I closed the valve to the slide and left for 3 hours, thinking that if the pressure held steady then the leak would have to do with that slide line, and if it continued to go down, it would be something else. When I got home, the psi had dropped by 2 and there was a consistent drip from my salt cell.
Is the cell supposed to do this? Is this something I need to take to Pentair as a warranty claim? I still need to figure out what was causing my earlier psi drop, so the cell needs to be ruled out. There was no drip when I first noticed the psi drop this morning (going down 1 psi in about an hour) but as I said, it showed up sometime after I closed the valve on the slide.
Does anyone have any thoughts or insight for me, please? Fortunately we are now in a stretch of warm weather where I won't have to drain for potential freezes overnight so I have time to figure it out... I hope. Thanks!
It is along the seam near the top where the cover slides back and forth. This is new.
The weather has finally warmed up here enough for me to repressurize the system and I put it to 30 psi. It was very slowly ticking down and the previous spots where I had air leaks seemed to be ok. The only thing that had changed since when it last held pressure was when the decking guys moved the pipe for the slide and had to make new connections. So I wondered if there might be a small leak from that pipe under the concrete or something. I closed the valve to the slide and left for 3 hours, thinking that if the pressure held steady then the leak would have to do with that slide line, and if it continued to go down, it would be something else. When I got home, the psi had dropped by 2 and there was a consistent drip from my salt cell.
Is the cell supposed to do this? Is this something I need to take to Pentair as a warranty claim? I still need to figure out what was causing my earlier psi drop, so the cell needs to be ruled out. There was no drip when I first noticed the psi drop this morning (going down 1 psi in about an hour) but as I said, it showed up sometime after I closed the valve on the slide.
Does anyone have any thoughts or insight for me, please? Fortunately we are now in a stretch of warm weather where I won't have to drain for potential freezes overnight so I have time to figure it out... I hope. Thanks!
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Call Pentair and send them the photo. There should be no leaks from there.
In the meantime, get one of these -
Amazon.com: Pentair 520588 Dummy Bypass Cell Replacement Pool/Spa Sanitizer and Automation Control Systems: Patio, Lawn Garden
So you can isolate your IC from the system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
In the meantime, get one of these -
Amazon.com: Pentair 520588 Dummy Bypass Cell Replacement Pool/Spa Sanitizer and Automation Control Systems: Patio, Lawn Garden
So you can isolate your IC from the system.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thank you, Matt. I have contacted Pentair and begun the warranty claim process. I have also ordered the part you linked to. From the looks of it, it will be good to have one of those even after this cell replacement is over.
I agree!
Thank you, Matt. I have contacted Pentair and begun the warranty claim process. I have also ordered the part you linked to. From the looks of it, it will be good to have one of those even after this cell replacement is over.
I agree!
Which brings up an important point that you're probably realizing I like I did a week ago. Register all of your products online. It's pretty easy but they need your serial numbers (which I have to go find all mine).
My colorcascade wasn't working so I had to start a warranty claim last week. Good news is that they come out to my house for it and replace the light. Bad news is that they require a bunch of paperwork (like an invoice from my electrician, which I don't even have, so I had to ask him to send me one).
Pentair so far has been pretty good to work with for me.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Some people prefer to winterize their pools by removing the SWG and storing it indoors, especially if they are concerned about theft. I have the tube and I have found it useful from time-to-time, when I've removed my cell for cleaning but wanted to keep the pool running. And yes, if your cell ever goes sideways on you, it's handy bit of spare pipe to have around to keep your pool running. Since Pentair uses proprietary threads on it's couplings, it's not so easy to make up a DIY tube.
Quite frankly speaking, you should take your IC inside and not leave it hanging on your system while construction is still going on. Use this dummy tube during your startup as well during your plaster break-in period. Then, when you're ready to add salt, you can hook up your cell.
Good luck with Pentair. That are usually very good about honoring their warranties and keeping their customers happy so I think you will be fine.
Matt
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks for the added comments. I'm sure I will be fine, but for some reason I placed this order over the phone so I don't have an email record/invoice to provide for the registration process. If there had been something attached to the shipping box I don't know what I did with it, so now I have an email in to Sunplay asking them to send me a new invoice for the order. (Fortunately I did write down the order number.) I'm anxious to get the warranty stuff squared away so I can get the replacement cell ASAP, so this small snag is letting me practice some patience.
One question though... I ordered this IC60 cell with the power center included and it was bundled with my EasyTouch automation. I'm wondering if they replace the cell, will it have the power center included again, or do I somehow have to rewire the power from the old cell to the new one?
Also, when I replace the cell with the dummy pass through part, does the cell's cord get unplugged from my power center, or does that part just hang out there?
Another interesting thing that I'm finding is that the information you get from the various Pentair people you talk to is not always consistent. The first time I learned that was when someone told me I didn't have to buy everything on the same invoice to get their bundled extended warranty. The paperwork says otherwise, but I have since talked to the Pentair rep who deals with claims in my area and she said based on my account of things I would be ok, and could reference our conversation. The next thing was someone told me that the installation date is the date your pool is totally up and running. When I called Pentair and they asked for the installation date of the salt cell I had to give the actual install date, since my pool is not operational yet. I'm not sure how much that matters in the grand scheme of things, but I makes me not want to wait very long in registering everything else.
One question though... I ordered this IC60 cell with the power center included and it was bundled with my EasyTouch automation. I'm wondering if they replace the cell, will it have the power center included again, or do I somehow have to rewire the power from the old cell to the new one?
Also, when I replace the cell with the dummy pass through part, does the cell's cord get unplugged from my power center, or does that part just hang out there?
Another interesting thing that I'm finding is that the information you get from the various Pentair people you talk to is not always consistent. The first time I learned that was when someone told me I didn't have to buy everything on the same invoice to get their bundled extended warranty. The paperwork says otherwise, but I have since talked to the Pentair rep who deals with claims in my area and she said based on my account of things I would be ok, and could reference our conversation. The next thing was someone told me that the installation date is the date your pool is totally up and running. When I called Pentair and they asked for the installation date of the salt cell I had to give the actual install date, since my pool is not operational yet. I'm not sure how much that matters in the grand scheme of things, but I makes me not want to wait very long in registering everything else.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks for the added comments. I'm sure I will be fine, but for some reason I placed this order over the phone so I don't have an email record/invoice to provide for the registration process. If there had been something attached to the shipping box I don't know what I did with it, so now I have an email in to Sunplay asking them to send me a new invoice for the order. (Fortunately I did write down the order number.) I'm anxious to get the warranty stuff squared away so I can get the replacement cell ASAP, so this small snag is letting me practice some patience.
One question though... I ordered this IC60 cell with the power center included and it was bundled with my EasyTouch automation. I'm wondering if they replace the cell, will it have the power center included again, or do I somehow have to rewire the power from the old cell to the new one?
Also, when I replace the cell with the dummy pass through part, does the cell's cord get unplugged from my power center, or does that part just hang out there?
Another interesting thing that I'm finding is that the information you get from the various Pentair people you talk to is not always consistent. The first time I learned that was when someone told me I didn't have to buy everything on the same invoice to get their bundled extended warranty. The paperwork says otherwise, but I have since talked to the Pentair rep who deals with claims in my area and she said based on my account of things I would be ok, and could reference our conversation. The next thing was someone told me that the installation date is the date your pool is totally up and running. When I called Pentair and they asked for the installation date of the salt cell I had to give the actual install date, since my pool is not operational yet. I'm not sure how much that matters in the grand scheme of things, but I makes me not want to wait very long in registering everything else.
They should just send you a new cell, no power center. The cells are "universal" in that they are driven by the same power center for all models (IC-20, -40 & -60). So when you get the new cell you just plug it into the receptacle that the old cell plugged into.
As far as your "customer service experience" goes...totally normal! Well, only because abnormal is totally normal. Yes, you would think all Pentair support peeps would be on the same page but, you'd be wrong. Very rarely, in any large scale business, are all of the phone reps knowledgeable. Many times, they are just database searching old records/issues and reading back the solutions others have posted. They are also terribly under-paid phone techs so the turn-over rate in their call-centers is quite high.
The thing to do is to get records of every phone conversation (name of person and your ticket number for the call) and keep a log of it all. That way, if someone gives you opposing advice, you can reference your previous calls. What you're experiencing is what happens in the PB's back office (assuming they have one) all the time. The PBs handle equipment claims and they usually know who in the Pentair employee universe to call directly. Being an O/B, you get the pleasure of the call-center run-around....
Good luck,
Matt
- May 16, 2011
- 1,184
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
So the cord coming out of the cell is not the "built in power center" that I thought? I'll have to go look in the morning, but this cord is connected to my EasyTouch box. I guess that's just the cord for the cell then and it gets plugged in to the power center. If that's right, what is the "built in" part that was included in my package? Is that within the EasyTouch panel and otherwise would have been a separate box?
- May 23, 2015
- 25,718
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The cord from the IC cell should attach to your EasyTouch using a hubbell-type twist connector (4-pins, I think?). That's the external connection in the panel.
What you got packaged on the inside of the panel is the 24VDC power supply transformer and communication interface between the EasyTouch and the IC. If you did not have an EasyTouch panel, then the IC would need a separate box for the power supply.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006