Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

[mknauss]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Having a small sump pump available is a good idea. They are readily available at Home Depot or Harbor Freight.

Also just brushing a number of times a day will help with mixing. You would use bleach if your SWCG is unable to run. You would be advised to run a higher than normal FC so if your CYA is elevated for a SWCG, it would take a good amount of bleach.

There are cases we have had on the forum with pumps down for weeks (Hurricanes, pump failures, etc) that survived OK with a short SLAM once things are repaired.

Take care.

 

[cfherrman]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Brush to move water around, run robot 24/7, sump pump

 

[Dirk]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Also just brushing a number of times a day will help with mixing.

Brush to move water around, run robot 24/7, sump pump

Brushing, right, of course. Good to know. My SWG and my vacuum system would all go down with the pump. So I'd manually add chlorine and brush 'till the pump got going again. I'll keep an eye out for a sump pump, or run down and get one should the need ever arise. Thx for the ideas...

Something like this one? Fifty bucks, two days away via Amazon Prime.

 

[mknauss]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Yup, that would work.

If you ever used it to drain your pool, it will put out about 400 gph through a 50 foot hose. I know that from experience ---------

 

[Dirk]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Having a small sump pump available is a good idea.

I mentioned I got rid of my old main pump, but I do still have my old booster pump from my previous pressure-side vac system. I wonder if I should hang on to that. It might be 220, but maybe I could convert it to 110? Then one hose to the deep end, the other to the little end, and something to keep it from falling in!

Might be better than trying to give it away on Craig's List...

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, just confirmed it can be wired for 115:



- - - Updated - - -

Yup, that would work.

If you ever used it to drain your pool, it will put out about 400 gph through a 50 foot hose. I know that from experience ---------

Ha, at one point I thought about using it for aerating. That would move some pH around! But I didn't want to pony up for the electricity 24/7 while my main pump was running anyway...

 

[mknauss]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Booster pumps have to be fed by another pump. I do not believe they will pull water from a pool on their own.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

Booster pumps have to be fed by another pump. I do not believe they will pull water from a pool on their own.

Roger that. That Amazon model is only $50 and seems to have greater flow spec's anyway, for a lot less amps. Hardly seems worth the trouble to try and jerry-rig that old booster pump... I guess there are pumps for pressure, and pumps for flow...

 

[kimkats]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

If you have no power at all for some reason you can brush the pool real good and use a straw broom or boat paddle and walk around and around and around your pool with it to get the water moving in a whorl pool going to help mix things up as well.

Kim

 

[Dirk]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

If you have no power at all for some reason you can brush the pool real good and use a straw broom or boat paddle and walk around and around and around your pool with it to get the water moving in a whorl pool going to help mix things up as well.

Boat paddle? Round and round? Am I on Candid Camera? Punk'd? Where's Ashton?

Brushing, boat paddle (I have two). Good tips. Thx.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

NOT URGENT, WHEN YOUR TIME ALLOWS...

OK, new plaster/pebble and new water went in a few weeks ago. Between pool guy and Leslie's my TA was somewhere between 120 and 260! I believe it was likely actually around 180. I've used the aerating/MA method with great success, I'm down to about 100. Can you help me better understand this process?

I think it was Pool School where I read the process works best with high TA. That appears to be true. I've kind of stalled out at 100. I had new plaster, and high TA, and all three returns converted to sprinklers. I saw overnight rapid rises in pH, which I doused with MA, and watched TA come down at a pretty fast rate, like 10 a day or so.

But then I started getting concerned that using all the returns for sprinklers was compromising the circulation, so I removed all but one. And since the back pressure of the three combined sprinklers is now less, the remaining one is not as forceful. So I'm like at 1/6 of the aerating I was doing, maybe less. Plus, maybe the pH is stabilizing as the plaster is? So my pH is not rising much at all, and my TA is stuck at 100.

So I had a few questions:

It's not clear to me how much of the pH rise was due to the aerating, and how much was due to the new plaster. Any ideas about that?

Is the reduction method most effective in big chunks, or just as effective, eventually, in smaller chunks. Here's what I mean: should I wait until the pH crawls back up to 7.8, then blast it down to 7.2, for maximum TA-reduction affect, even if that takes a week or more, or will I get the same results in TA-reduction, if I do multiple baby steps, like 7.5 to 7.3, then 7.4, to 7. 2, etc, maybe three or four times in that same one week period?

Is there anything harmful in a 7.8 to 7.2 swing, or is it better for the plaster to keep pH close to the middle and do those baby steps?

Would my pool, and plaster, and the TA-reduction method, benefit in any substantial way from an alternate, better source of aeration? Or will this all work itself out over time?

What I'm considering is to remove the last of the three sprinklers, put the third eyeball back on, and restore the pool circulation to 100%, then fashion some sort of aerator device (see below) that could then run independently of the main pump, do a better job of aerating, and not detract from the pool's normal circulation. This independent aerator could run 24/7, and leave alone my pool's more normal 12 hr filter cycle. My water would move better, my main pump would not have to run 24/7, and the aeration would actually be better than the weak version I have going on now.

Or will my new pebble/plaster continue to drive pH up, without any aeration, and subsequent MA corrections will, over time, continue to drive TA down, and I'm just over thinking this? I have it in my head that the sooner I get my TA to 70-80, the better for my pH, and my plaster. Is that a needless worry? Marty already told me to wait until the pH stabilizes before I continue to fine tune the TA, but if I've sort of leveled out pH-wise, should I now revisit the TA challenge? Is two weeks too soon for that? How do you know when pH is done moving around with new plaster?

Here's my hair-brained scheme: I was contemplating what one does in the event of a pool pump failure. One of those pool-draining pumps could be rigged to just circulate the water until the pump was fixed. I figured a $50 pump might be a prudent pro-active prevention. Plus, I'd have one for when I want to start over with my water, from high CH or salt. Further justified if I could use the same pump for TA aerating. I'm thinking: hang the pump from a horizontal 2x4, to suspend it mid-water (to keep it off my new plaster) then run a short 1.5" line from it to some sort of DIY PVC cap sprinkler head thingie, which might make for a spectacular fountain/aerator. Those pond pumps get up past $50 real quick, and for that or more they seem to be only slightly larger than aquarium pumps. Don't those pool-draining pumps move way more water?

So:

Crazy?

Possible?

Needless effort and expense?

Would that type of pump work like a fountain pump if I ran it into a PVC cap with the right number and size of holes drilled in it?

Is there a consensus for the go-to pump for draining a pool? Brand-wise?

What size/hp would I need to properly drain a 12000 gal pool?

And can those types of pumps be used like that, restricting their flow enough to push about 3' up thru 1.5" pipe and then form a decent spray of water?

Lastly, is TA "set it and forget it" once you get to your target? Or will I be using the TA-reduction method some number of times in the future as the TA moves up for this or that reason?
Which would better justify this effort.

Thoughts and/or chastising welcome!

 

[mknauss]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

In general, you are way over thinking this.

Your pH is being driven up by your curing plaster. That will last up to 12 months after installation, declining over that time.

You TA will come down each time you add acid. It will only go up if you add it to the pool, typically from fill water.

IF you are adding TA due to fill water (as I do), when I want to decrease TA I aggressively run my pH from 8 to 7.2 and back. Staying in that range will not affect anything.

So creating a TA system is over kill in my mind. Once you lower your TA, it will stay lower, pending how much you are adding from your fill water.

Also -- the problem with creating this extra thread - it has none of the background from your other thread.

Take care.

I merged threads to the original one. Just an FYI ----

 

[Dirk]

Re: Water softener connected to auto fill, and new plaster start up.

In general, you are way over thinking this.

Shocker!

So creating a TA system is over kill in my mind. Once you lower your TA, it will stay lower, pending how much you are adding from your fill water.

Also -- the problem with creating this extra thread - it has none of the background from your other thread.

OK, I'll let this thread end along with my over-zealous TA hunt! Thanks for your input.

 

[Leebo]

Out of all the items one needs to test TA in your case is the least important. Trying to chase a magical number will only lead to headaches. It will come down as you add acid as Marty said and in time will find its own spot. Rather than stressing about TA your time would be better spent preforming other tasks such as lounging in your pool, or drinking an adult beverage, or maybe both at the same time.

 

[Dirk]

Out of all the items one needs to test TA in your case is the least important. Trying to chase a magical number will only lead to headaches. It will come down as you add acid as Marty said and in time will find its own spot. Rather than stressing about TA your time would be better spent preforming other tasks such as lounging in your pool, or drinking an adult beverage, or maybe both at the same time.

Roger that. With my current water stats, my CSI will be at -0.07 by keeping my pH at 7.6. And with FC at 5, that should do it for me until SWG time in spring. Thanks all.

 

[Dirk]

Update!

Pool care and water chem all going quite well. I feel I have the FC and pH down, both testing and treating. I'm maintaining my pH close to the high side (7.7) to keep my CSI as close to zero as I can. I haven't tested my CYA since I poured in that first gallon, but I'm assuming it's still around 30. TA seems to have leveled off at about 90. I'm not actively adjusting that any more. Thought I'd just leave it alone for now, and let the slight pH-down adjustments I still have to do tweak the TA (just as you all advised, thank you). The a-tad-high TA is also helping support my near-zero CSI while the water is so cold (44-46°).

Couple questions:

1.
Now that the new pebble break-in is complete (it's been more that 28 days), I've dialed way back on the brushing. I was doing it at least once a day, and even then I never saw any plaster dust (because the plasterers had acid washed the pebble). Given the season (no swimmers), the water temp, the very small amount of debris and leaves, the Rebel running two hours a day, the age of my plaster, and my near-constant FC of 4.5-5.5, what would you recommend for a brushing schedule? Never? Once a week? Once a month?

2.
A bit of a mystery this one... right before I replastered, my now-x-pool-guy spotted what he thought was black algae (small black spots here and there). I had also observed larger patches of green algae, on occasion, during the last months before the first water refill. Given how badly both the two now-fired pool maintenance companies had been managing my FC, CYA and SWG (usually FC 0 by the end of the week, and an SWG that was never set up correctly), it's no surprise about the algae. But I was quite paranoid about re-infecting the new pebble. I was assured that removing the old plaster would solve for that. And I replaced my filters, too. The only thing I couldn't get at was whatever was lurking in the plumbing. So when I spotted a small black spot on my steps about a week ago, I freaked!!

- The steps are in the shade this time of year, virtually 100% of the time.
- The water is at 45° or so.
- I've been obsessive about FC, the lowest it's been is 4.5 (though I might have hit 3 just once). Usually it hovers aroung 4.5-5.5. I check it every day, occasionally every other day if the last test showed FC 5 or above.
- And I've been brushing regularly, but kind of slacked off right around the time of the black spot!
- I could reach the spot with my hand. It would not rub off.
- I brushed the spot with a nylon brush, it would not brush off (that's when I really freaked).

Here's the mystery: Now it's gone. I thought I spotted another spot, deeper down, but it's gone now, too. So...

Is there any possibility this is an algae, black or otherwise? Or were these just leaf or berry stains that stuck around for a while then got eaten up by the chlorine?


Side note! I keep my skimmer basket pretty clean. Never more than a few leaves in there, which I clear out almost every day. Today I dumped the basket and something was moving! Wah? I little frog!! He hopped away. Hope he's OK. Well, now I know my new water chem is at least frog-safe!!

 

[mknauss]

He's back!

All sounds good. You can brush once a week or so. Depends on how much dust/dirt you get in the pool plus any dead spots that do not circulate well when the pump is running.
You stated pH Down -- be sure to use muriatic acid. The powder stuff is Sodium Bisulfate and in time it will destroy your SWCG as it is metal and also your plaster.

The black spot - who knows! - it is gone so all is good!

Happy New Year!

 

[Dirk]

He's back!

You missed me?!?

All sounds good. You can brush once a week or so. Depends on how much dust/dirt you get in the pool plus any dead spots that do not circulate well when the pump is running.

Roger that. Thanks.

You stated pH Down -- be sure to use muriatic acid. The powder stuff is Sodium Bisulfate and in time it will destroy your SWCG as it is metal and also your plaster.

Oh, sorry. That's a Leslie's term, isn't it? I just meant I am still treating to drive pH down every few days. I'm not using a "ph-down" product. Other than bird poop and the occasional leaf, the only things that have gone into my pool are: Leslie's Chlorine, CYA and MA; and one treatment of sequestering agent left by the plasterer. That's it. Oh, and the frog. I used one batch of Lowe's chlorine, but it wasn't cheaper and turned out to be a couple months old. Nothing but "the good stuff" for my pool!! (In my neck of the woods, Leslie's has the better product at or below what I can pay elsewhere. My Lowes has old chlorine and the half-strength MA.)

The black spot - who knows! - it is gone so all is good!

OK, whew. That's what I was hoping.

Happy New Year!

Right back atcha!

 

[kimkats]

DIRK!! Where have you been? Glad to see you back and having such good luck with your pool using TFP!

Black dot------who knows! If your pool was not TFP clear you might not have even seen it LOL Keep an eye out and see if you can find a way to put a chlorine puck on something to stick down in the water and rub on a spot if you see another one.

Brushing---Summer aka warm time=at least every 3 days. During the burrr times.........when you want to bond with your pool aka escape the house......try for once a week or so. The walls and places the cleaner does not get to are most important.

glad to see you again!

Kim (going to pick your brain on how to use the link set up for my new pool owner links soon)

 

[Dirk]

If your pool was not TFP clear you might not have even seen it LOL

So, since you brought it up... I still struggle a bit with the subjective components of pool care. I like black and white. Pool care is more like shades of pink and blue! Or foggy black dots!!

But I've relaxed a bit, and am now willing to wait it out and let my developing experience do its thing.

Monitoring FC and pH, even TA, is pretty easy. CH is still a challenge. And I've only tried CYA and salt once, way back when (without good results)! Baby steps. These things have taken care of themselves for the most part for now, in the winter, 'cause all my levels are great, but some will raise their ugly little heads when I add salt, and fire up the SWG in the spring. (Then I'll be back in spades, for sure!!)

But I do pay attention to water clarity, as per my "Pool Schoolin'!" I stare and stare. I'm all but certain that it is crystal clear. But... "all but." I read here words like "crystal clear" and "shimmering" and "sparkling," etc. What do they mean? I do seem to recall a few times "pre-TFP" where the water looked a little cloudy, so I know what that looks like. And of course my plaster was covered in calcium and sometimes had areas of green algae. Those symptoms are obvious (and now history!). But how does one know when things are as clear as they're going to get?

During the day, even with my old eyeballs, I can clearly see my new micro pebbles in the deep end (about 6.5' down). At night, I turn on the pool light, and if the water is still, I can't see the water at all. It looks like an empty pool. Because of the angle of the light, I can see every bump and valley in my new pebble surface. So I'm guessing that's the definition of crystal clear? Ya got any tips for "measuring" clarity? Or is it just a subjective sense of it that we rely on?

Otherwise, all is well, and I'm extremely proud of my pool, the new pebble, the water, and the fact that I'm doing it all myself! Thanks again, TFP!!

By the way, I still haven't been in the pool yet! Can't wait to jump in next year. That's been the toughest part of all this so far!!

 

[kimkats]

A clear pool:

-you can see the heads of the screws on the main drain and see if they are standard or phillips.

-you can tell if a coin is heads or tails while in the deep end.

-it looks like gin

-"At night, I turn on the pool light, and if the water is still, I can't see the water at all. It looks like an empty pool."

The shimmer/sparkle.........that will be when the sun is bright and the water is moving. It will look like there are diamonds on your pool surface. You will need sunglasses to look at your pool.

Have you added the salt yet? If not wait until it is warm enough for your Grands to be able to get in the water. We call salt adding day "diamond day" as the salt looks like diamonds as you add it and the kids love to swim under water to look at it and they can help mix it in!

CYA test---------oh how I hate this test---------here is how I came to terms with it. GLANCE!!!!! Do not stare or you will see the dot.

Here is how I do it:

-Make sure it is a sunny day

-make up the mixture and let it sit while you do the rest of the tests

-stand with your back to the sun

-hold the tube at your tummy

-pour the mixture to the first line (100) GLANCE in then look away. If you still see the dot go to the next line.

-Keep pouring from line to line until you cannot see the dot at a GLANCE then call it good.

You can do and redo the test with the same water. Just pour it back and forth as many times as you want/need to.

Kim