Trying to balance Alkalinity and PH, but finding immense difficulty. Suggestions?

[generessler]

On ANY drops based test (TA, CH, FAS.DPD) You continue to count drops until the last drop you add results in NO further color change. Subtract that last drop and the result is the endpoint.

Thanks. This is helpful. I've wondered how to interpret a color change that's not "all the way." I.e adding another drop causes further change. (Happens for me with TA fairly often.)

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Update: I got liquid chlorine when I had to go out this afternoon, but using the app I screwed up and didn't correctly change the percentage for the bleach concentrate, so where it defaults to about 5 or something, the actual percentage I had was like 10%. So while I still put slightly under what was suggested, my FC/TC levels are now 12/12.5 respectively. So I went from too low to too high lol.

Also, using what duraleigh said though and my TA is now 160 (when I added more drops, the color continued to change until I hit 17 drops, so backing off one = 16). I still got the same reading though for CH, PH, and CYA. (250, 7.0, and 70).

 

[Texas Splash]

You're still fine. Your FC isn't crazy high and will fall to normal levels soon enough. The TA doesn't change things either. In fact, with your pH on the low end, the elevated TA should help the pH rise a bit faster. You're doing good.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Today being my last day off of the week before I'm back to work, figured I'd clean the pool and with the cover off almost all day, ran my tests again. Also I found my "error" with the CH test and why it wasn't "changing color" like I was expecting to with the others. On the instructions it says to add 1 drop at a time until the color changes, but I wasn't treating it like the other tests (TA/FC/TC for example) and wasn't "mixing" it after each drop. I was wondering why it would be like... a blue/red mixture and realized after doing a quick search what I was doing wrong and got a much different reading, but this time accurate and I triple checked my results with the same exact outcomes. So here's what I got today:

Cl/BR: 5-10
PH: 7.0
FC: 10.5
TC: 11
CH: 175
TA: 160
CYA: 70

With my CYA and TA tests reading correct I can definitely cut back now to once weekly and just do it every Monday when I'm off, and I'll keep monitoring my chlorine levels. It seemed to drop pretty fast which surprised me!

 

[DarkRider2k10]

I figured I'd give my "First week with testing" update. All is well so far though not much at all has changed. The only things really that had changed were the slow drop in Chlorine levels and the drop in TA. I did a full test today:

Cl: 5-10
PH: 7.0
FC: 6.5
CC: 0/ TC 6.5
CH: 175
TA: 150
CYA: 70
I'll add some liquid chlorine to bring the levels back up, but the pool's temp has dropped a lot due to the drop in temps and the rain we've been getting. Not a lot of rain, but enough to cool everything.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Well here's my week 3 update with testing. I did two tests today of FC since my first test showed FC at 5.5 and I added chlorine. We've also had some rain off and on this week, with colder temps. The pool all last week was in the 60s... cold . Today it was 73 in the pool, and the weather should still be getting better. Though I believe tonight and tomorrow calls for rain again. I'm also hoping that the additional rain will eventually help to drop my CYA levels, as I had a lot of added water in the pool and had to drain some out as it was too filled (well over the skimmer line).

FC: 9.0
CC: 0.5
TC: 9.5
PH: 7.0
TA: 130
CH: 150
CYA: 70

 

[Texas Splash]

Numbers look pretty good. Watch the pH to make sure it doesn't fall any lower. Also be sure to update your signature with all of your pool and equipment info. It helps when we review each post.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[pktaske]

Dont bother with the pool store test. Their results are often innacurate.

My pool store numbers are dead even with my new TFP kit. It's the reason I got the kit because the pool store is literally 1 mile from my house and it's just so easy to have them run everything for my wife when she's already out and about and I'm travelling.

 

[duraleigh]

Trusting pool store testing to be accurate and consistent most ALWAYS leads to trouble. It's the single most important reason TFP exists.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Numbers look pretty good. Watch the pH to make sure it doesn't fall any lower. Also be sure to update your signature with all of your pool and equipment info. It helps when we review each post.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I actually today started to aerate the pool. It rained again and is raining a bit today. I'm hoping by the end of the day the pool's PH will increase as yeah the color for the PH hasn't changed at all it's been a constant 7.0 and the TA started to drop lol. I also added in my signature with the pool specs too so that'll help

 

[DarkRider2k10]

I took a pic of my PH test today after aerating for the day. I don't have anything special to aerate the pool so what I basically did was I took the return (outlet) and pointed it upwards so it shoots out and basically agitates the water all over the top. Still below 7.2 which is a bit frustrating but hopefully it'll climb up more tomorrow as well. You can also see in my pic that because of the rain this morning (it was sunny, but only 68 by this afternoon) the water level is higher again, but not above the skimmer at least...

 

[jesse-99]

If you keep aerating, it will go up... I don't think there's any harm at all in having pH around 7.2 (I constantly aim for 7.2 myself to balance my CSI where I want it). Track your #'s in the Pool Math app if you aren't using it already, plus you can log your chemical additions to your pool, its extremely helpful! Looks like you're def on the right track.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

If you keep aerating, it will go up... I don't think there's any harm at all in having pH around 7.2 (I constantly aim for 7.2 myself to balance my CSI where I want it). Track your #'s in the Pool Math app if you aren't using it already, plus you can log your chemical additions to your pool, its extremely helpful! Looks like you're def on the right track.

Yup I bought the pool math app on the store as it's incredibly useful. The PH just never seems to want to go up for me . But I do think it's because of the rain. The rest of my #s aren't bad at all!

 

[tfpflana1502]

Also, once you get your kit, manage pH and don't worry so much about TA. TA will fall as you manage pH, but there's no real reason to rush it.

And to piggy back on this good advice, I only test 3 things with my Taylor kit...pH, chlorine and CYA every once in a while (when I have to add salt). I test when I add salt just because the reasons to add salt and the decrease in CYA tend to correlate, but not necessarily are causal.

 

[mknauss]

I only test 3 things with my Taylor kit...pH, chlorine and CYA

Without a current TA level, you do not know how much acid to add to lower the pH.

 

[tfpflana1502]

Without a current TA level, you do not know how much acid to add to lower the pH.

You can use pragmatics.....add some acid, run pump on high for a few hours, retest and if the pH is still too high, add some more, repeat until pH is level. Then you get a sense of what amount of acid you had to add to get your pH down to an acceptable level from the original reading. Of course, this isn't scientific, but everyone gets to know their pool and what causes what.

I would say that you have to have a very good chem test kit, else you are flying blind.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Woohoo! Finally I am making some progress on my PH, as it's showing 7.2 now.

Did a "semi full" reading today (PH, FC, TA, CYA) with all the rain on and off (hoping my CYA would drop, alas it did not.) and only a 10ppm increase on TA with that increase in PH. I'm going to keep aerating the pool to get my PH up more but glad to finally see an increase!

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Update Monday morning! Did a full test today with continued aeration:
FC: 7.5
PH: 7.5
TA: 150
CH: 150
CYA: 70

Do you guys think I should stop with the aeration? I know the recommended range for PH is 7.6 to 7.8, but I also know my Alkalinity is still higher then what's suggested too (the app says TA should be around 60-80). But I haven't seen the TA decrease all that much so... I know the only other way to decrease TA is to also decrease PH lol.

 

[Texas Splash]

I wouldn't worry about the TA quite so much. Keep an eye on the pH. When it hits 8.0, then use enough acid to lower the pH down to about 7.2. Each time you do that it should slowly pull the TA down with it.

 

[reggiehammond]

You can use pragmatics.....add some acid, run pump on high for a few hours, retest and if the pH is still too high, add some more, repeat until pH is level. Then you get a sense of what amount of acid you had to add to get your pH down to an acceptable level from the original reading. Of course, this isn't scientific, but everyone gets to know their pool and what causes what.

I would say that you have to have a very good chem test kit, else you are flying blind.

If you don't use your test kit (testing TA) you're also flying blind. Your first scenario is a lot more work than the few seconds it actually takes to test TA.

While I don't disagree that you can get pretty good at guessing what to add based on years of TFP-style pool care, it's not advice this forum should be offering.