You need to also consider a plumbing failure that would allow your pump to run dry. It happens.
The second flow switch is good idea. It should power down the whole system because some failure has occurred which needs attention. It is an overkill - probably - but I like it and I do worry about my pump not functioning or some unforeseen plumbing issue that needs the total system shutdown to prevent further damage to pool, pool equipment or to house. That's probably a discussion for another thread, but I like the concept. I think under current automation designs the only "hope" would be that a CB is thrown off or a GFCI activates to cut power to the malfunctioning electrical issue.So if the pump either breaks or runs dry, its no different from an old school installation with the SWG connected to the pump timer. SWG would still get power even though the pump wasn't pumping water.
I suspect if you have automation controlling things, it still wouldn't detect this condition, other than the SWG flow switch. Unless the automation has another flow detector?
I have to admit to letting the water level get too low sometimes. Have to be more careful about that now, which I should have been anyway.
But you guys did make me think about it. In my case, I could add another flow switch and connect to my smart home system. Then I could add logic to turn off the SWG if it doesn't see flow through the 2nd flow sensor.
Overkill?
But I don't want to derail this thread, just thinking out loud.
Pretty much. The effect on the TA depends on how much acid you use at one time. If you only lower the pH from 8.0 to 7.6, maybe not so much TA drop. But if you use more acid then the TA could fall more. You have room. The TA can drop as low as 60, maybe even 50 and still be okay, but no lower.My understanding is I will expect my pH to go up as the SWG is being used....when it creeps up to 7.8-8.0 range, add muriatic acid to lower it. My assumption is that will also lower the alkalinity as it rises. Is that about what others with swgs do?
Target is 4, but I would target 6-7 for now...until you learn what your pool consumes in FC daily. In the southern tier you can easily lose 4-5 a day. At a target of 4, when FC usage is during the day (sun, swimmers) you could easily get to 0. Many of us keep our pools at the higher end of target to avoid getting anywhere near minimums. If I get close (+/- .5 of minimums) my pool starts to cloud up.I think I have this all figured out but I wanted to run this by people smarter than me to make sure this will work out. I installed a Hayward Aquarite SWG 40k gallon yesterday. My levels using the kit from TF Test Kits are:
FC 3
Alk 80
CYA 60 (was between 50-60)
My pool gallons are 22,000 and the FC/CYA chart says minimum 3, target 4
Yes. However, with a TA of 80, you may not see that much rise. pH rise happens WAAAY more due to high TA than SWCG, which is pH neutral. I have SWCG, TA of 70 and my pH hasn't changed all year. 1 addition to get it in range and it sits at 7.4.My understanding is I will expect my pH to go up as the SWG is being used....when it creeps up to 7.8-8.0 range, add muriatic acid to lower it. My assumption is that will also lower the alkalinity as it rises. Is that about what others with swgs do?
Many here run their VSPs 24/7. I run mine 24x7 at 1400rpm or about 150Watts power consumption...about 20$ a month and run my SWCG at 15-20%. Just works. I would start with a 24 hour pump run, 100-200 above your SWCG switch turning on and experiment.As for how long to run it, the Hayward produces 1.47 lbs per day according to the internet, so using the excel sheet I found from this site I figured up this:
To replace 2 FC per day, I'd need to run it 5.8 hours per day at 100%. My pump currently runs 24/7 and runs at 1750 rpm at all times except from 2 pm to 7pm I run it at 2500 rpm just to move things towards skimmer. It skims really well so I thought about reducing that some to save power to say 2200 and run that from 1-7 pm. I would then set my swg to run daily at 100% from 1-7 to match it. I believe the SWG should still run even at 1750 so the timing is irrelevant but I guess my question is, is the default expectation of 2 FC per day reasonable or should I up that to 3 FC per day running it for closer to 9 hours per day? Is it best to run it during the day to replace as it's losing it in the sun or at night? Or would it be better to run it 24/7 at X percentage needed or go 100% at the required time frame, then shut off the remaining time? I do have automation so I can change time and percentage at 1% increment levels on my phone. From a power consumption standpoint, is it a wash or does it use the same amps rather it's running at 100% or 20%?
20% for 5 days is same as 100% for one day. Only counts when it is running.As for cell life, if it's rated for 10,000 hours I believe. If I ran it for say 8 hours per day for about 180 days I'm gonna get a shade under 7 years. And my understanding is if I run it for 8 hours at 100% or 24 hours at 33%, I'd still get the exact same 7ish years, so you don't save anything cell life wise by thinking 8 hrs at 100% uses less life, since it's based on 100%. Is that correct?
Save the pucks for vacation! Get some conditioner and use that. Either way is ok.1 more question on cya. The chart says 60 is basically the lowest end. I do have probably 20 lbs or so of trichlor tablets and probably 15 1 lb packs of dichlor shock. Poolmath says the tricolor/dichlor adds ~3 cya per bag or per 2 tablets so I could throw that in the pool over time to raise it to 70 if it's necessary. Would it be ok to do that or would it be better to just buy the stabilizer (30 bucks or so). Just figured since I had the bags/tablets I could still use them to raise if necessary....but will 60 work out just fine in your experience? Would prefer to save materials unless necessary.
Your thinking is good, refined with our experience you will get there.Guess Im just wondering what other people do and what would make the most sense to do. Is my math/thinking above correct?
You are seeing hydrogen gas as the bubbles. The chlorine gas instantaneously goes into solution with the water at the SWCG.The SWG generates Cl gas, so it makes sense.
Thank you for that link. Well this listed here pretty much addresses my problem. Guess I should of done a vertical install. Would of been nice if that had been on the manual:Hayward SWCG Wiki
Not sure if you found this page yet, lots of good info there on your SWG.
They say between 6 and 7 amps max is fine. I think I'm running at 6.5
You run at higher speeds for specific requirements. You may wish to have high rpms for skimming or you need higher rpms for heater to function. There is no set rule. If you can produce FC at 1725rpm for 24 hrs then that is fine. Then only ramp up for certain activities such as skimming. As you noted, the longer you can stay at lower rpm the lower your energy costs.Appreciate the info from everyone. I think I may have ironed out my issues with the swg. Assuming I have that fixed I like the idea of 24/7 at a reduced percent since my pump runs 24/7 anyway. Think I'll start with 33% for 24 hours and work from there.
One more quick question. Am I dumb to even run my pump at 2500 rpm for the 6 hours per day. Do others do a low speed for 24 hours and just leave it there? You indicated 1400 24 hours a day. Do you ever increase it on a daily basis (other than specific circumstances such as adding chemicals etc). Thought about just trying the 24/7 1725 rpm.and 33% swg and seeing how that works. As I look right now 1725 rpms is 168 watts. 2500 is about 280 watts. I just assumed I might of needed a faster run time at some point during the day but maybe I don't.
It might be better to get a feel for SWG % and runtime numbers for a few weeks first. CYA is easy to add, difficult to subtract. If it was my chems and pool and I still needed more CYA I'd probably keep the tabs and use the dichlor to bring up CYA levels, but that's just because it's already paid for. Use PoolMath, it'll tell you how much CYA is added by the different chems. CYA and FC levels are a variable, subjective thing. If your pool gets a lot of sunlight and you don't want to run your SWG too hard, you can increase CYA 10ppm and see how that feels over time. Then, add some more. Remember it's better to sneak up on a number than blowing past it.Would it be ok to do that or would it be better to just buy the stabilizer (30 bucks or so). Just figured since I had the bags/tablets I could still use them to raise if necessary....but will 60 work out just fine in your experience?
This is exactly correct. If you're happy with your skimming you can likely reduce the higher pump speed significantly. Again, find the balance point. What most folks here do is slowly lower the pump RPM until the SWG flow light turns off, then setting the pump 2-300 RPM higher than that to compensate for filter backpressure. It'd be catastrophic to run it at the lowest RPM possible and have a blockage or some other issue that left you without FC generation.Do you ever increase it on a daily basis (other than specific circumstances such as adding chemicals etc). Thought about just trying the 24/7 1725 rpm.and 33% swg and seeing how that works. As I look right now 1725 rpms is 168 watts. 2500 is about 280 watts. I just assumed I might of needed a faster run time at some point during the day but maybe I don't.
Regarding day-to-day FC levels, I think of it this way: Why in the world would I want to just keep to the minimum FC / CYA amount in my pool? Any small fluctuation downward in FC (bather load, rain event, yard guy with a careless leaf blower, loss of power, critter drowned in skimmer basket) could rapidly put me in an unsafe water situation. FC above 10ppm affects the pH drop test, and it's safe to swim up to SLAM levels, which are quite high for CYA 60-90. I personally leave my settings alone and only make changes when FC drifts up to 9 or drops below 7. The pump's running 24/7 anyway, and the SWG power draw is negligible, so the chlorine is automated and effectively free. My blood pressure is much more subdued knowing there's plenty of wiggle room.Guess Im just wondering what other people do and what would make the most sense to do.
Yeah, that's a bummer. I knew the vertical plumbing recommendation was primarily a safety issue; if the SWG runs in a low-flow situation it is possible to have an accumulation of hydrogen gas, which can (and has) caused the rare detonation of pool plumbing. It looks like you've still got the ability to change it if you wanted, or it might even be able to install some kind of air bleed valve after the heater to clean up the flow. Now that you're more familiar with the plumbing (it's a whole lot easier than it seems), you might consider a true bypass for your heater. That'll allow you to run even lower RPMs on the pump, as the heater is almost always the most restrictive component for flow rates."When using a variable speed pump it is recommended that the cell be plumbed in vertical position. By doing this the cell will fill even when the pump is running in a lower speed. If the cell is plumbed horizontally, and the pump is running in low speed, the cell will not fill completely with water, and cause it to read a false low reading."
Good points on the heater. I'm finding that I have to usually put the pump speed rpm to about 2500+ in order to activate the flow switch on the heater. Kind of a bummer I have to run it that high. I only use the heater in May for maybe 3-4 weeks total so from June on its just a yard decoration. So doesn't really matter too much after that but I guess I could consider making up some pvc pipe to use as a bypass to essentially disconnect heater from June through September. That said, the swg seems to be fine at 1750 rpm which is always the lowest that I've ran my pump anyway so I don't guess its a big deal. As long as flow switch isn't activated (thus shutting it off), is it producing the exact same chlorine rather I'm running my pump on full blast vs a lower speed, making the pump speed irrelevant for swg purposes as long as flow is more than flow switch?Great job on the install! Glad you found a solution that's gonna work for you.
It might be better to get a feel for SWG % and runtime numbers for a few weeks first. CYA is easy to add, difficult to subtract. If it was my chems and pool and I still needed more CYA I'd probably keep the tabs and use the dichlor to bring up CYA levels, but that's just because it's already paid for. Use PoolMath, it'll tell you how much CYA is added by the different chems. CYA and FC levels are a variable, subjective thing. If your pool gets a lot of sunlight and you don't want to run your SWG too hard, you can increase CYA 10ppm and see how that feels over time. Then, add some more. Remember it's better to sneak up on a number than blowing past it.
This is exactly correct. If you're happy with your skimming you can likely reduce the higher pump speed significantly. Again, find the balance point. What most folks here do is slowly lower the pump RPM until the SWG flow light turns off, then setting the pump 2-300 RPM higher than that to compensate for filter backpressure. It'd be catastrophic to run it at the lowest RPM possible and have a blockage or some other issue that left you without FC generation.
Regarding day-to-day FC levels, I think of it this way: Why in the world would I want to just keep to the minimum FC / CYA amount in my pool? Any small fluctuation downward in FC (bather load, rain event, yard guy with a careless leaf blower, loss of power, critter drowned in skimmer basket) could rapidly put me in an unsafe water situation. FC above 10ppm affects the pH drop test, and it's safe to swim up to SLAM levels, which are quite high for CYA 60-90. I personally leave my settings alone and only make changes when FC drifts up to 9 or drops below 7. The pump's running 24/7 anyway, and the SWG power draw is negligible, so the chlorine is automated and effectively free. My blood pressure is much more subdued knowing there's plenty of wiggle room.
Yeah, that's a bummer. I knew the vertical plumbing recommendation was primarily a safety issue; if the SWG runs in a low-flow situation it is possible to have an accumulation of hydrogen gas, which can (and has) caused the rare detonation of pool plumbing. It looks like you've still got the ability to change it if you wanted, or it might even be able to install some kind of air bleed valve after the heater to clean up the flow. Now that you're more familiar with the plumbing (it's a whole lot easier than it seems), you might consider a true bypass for your heater. That'll allow you to run even lower RPMs on the pump, as the heater is almost always the most restrictive component for flow rates.