Squeeze last bit of life out of cell?

[Saturn94]

Update:

Today the new T15 cell seems to be working fine on the T15 setting. Out of curiosity, I tried another test using the K1766 Taylor kit, being very careful, making sure to mix very well between drops, and dispensing drops slowly to ensure proper drop size. It’s still reading 1000ppm above what the SWCG is reporting. I‘m pretty confident that if the level was in fact 4000ppm as reported by the K1766, I would notice a saltier taste in the water, but I‘m not noticing a saltier taste at all (I can usually start noticing it at about 3200ppm). When my new K1766 reagents arrive I’ll try the test again.

I wish I would have thought to post the current diagnostic settings. I‘ll try to remember to do that tomorrow.

 

[chlorinatorpro]

I did my homework and learned from others in here that the Jacuzzi is a well reputable brand and was sold by Leslies.

The Jacuzzi cell is made in China. That doesn’t make it a bad cell but if someone told you that it was made in the USA they are mistaken.

 

[C0d3Sp4c3]

The Jacuzzi cell is made in China. That doesn’t make it a bad cell but if someone told you that it was made in the USA they are mistaken.

No contest! Everything is made in China and I think that includes me I once worked in the Electronic manufacturing firm and the parts/assemblies to complete the product are all made in China. The only thing the Company claimed made in the USA is the label "Assembled in the USA" blah. blah... but I am doubtful, too! Noticed the Hayward Aquarite system have no mention where it is made or assembled from other than the US address on the label? Go figure!

 

[Saturn94]

The K-1766 is a good test kit, however, I never rely on a single test, especially when I get different results from two different methods.

I always like to have at least two tests in agreement.

If two different tests are out of agreement, I get two new tests to see what's the real salinity.

I got the new reagents for the K1766 test. The Best By date on the Chromate is 04/23, and 5/22 on the Silver Nitrate.
The test result with the new reagents was 3800, pretty much like the older reagent result (4000). I’m wondering if there’s something particular about my pool water that’s causing such a large delta between the K1766 and the SWCG?

BTW, at least for now, I’m going to have to wait on the salt meter/calibration fluid purchase (dang budget, lol).

Here’s the current diagnostic readings on the SWCG (new T15 cell, T15 setting):
84 temp
25.5 volts
6.48 amps
2900 instant salt
Avg Salt 3100

Does it still look like the SWCG is correct? (I’m guessing yes).

Like I mentioned before, I normally can taste the salt at 3200, but I’m not tasting any elevated or unusual salt level right now. I would think if salt really was close to 4000, I would notice something unusual.

The SWCG with the new cell is currently doing fine producing FC. As a matter of fact, I had to turn the % down some.

Thoughts?

 

[Saturn94]

I just wanted to make sure the reported salt level looks correct given the following diagnostic numbers;

84 temp
25.5 volts
6.48 amps
2900 instant salt
Avg Salt 3100

Thank you. I know I’ve been asking a lot of questions about this and I greatly appreciate your help and knowledge.

 

[mas985]

Yes, the reported levels look correct to me. From the cell salt model I created with measurements, the amps, voltage and temp result in a salt level of 3090 ppm which is close to the display.

 

[Saturn94]

Yes, the reported levels look correct to me. From the cell salt model I created with measurements, the amps, voltage and temp result in a salt level of 3090 ppm which is close to the display.

Thank you. That’s what I suspected.

So evidence seems to be pointing towards something wonky going on with my Taylor K1766 results.

Normally I would say the SWCG/new T15 cell is working fine now, so don’t worry about any salt test results, but I need some reliable way to accurately test salt level so I can tell when the cell really does need to be replaced. It seems I prematurely replaced my last cell based on wonky results from the K1766 test results. It appears I would have to have multiple salt test kits/methods and cross my fingers I can get a reliable result from one if them (how would I know which is correct?). Frustrating….

 

[mas985]

I have replaced two cells and I can usually tell when a cell is failing by the rate of decline in both the amps and the salt level that would not be possible with just splash out.

 

[Saturn94]

I have replaced two cells and I can usually tell when a cell is failing by the rate of decline in both the amps and the salt level that would not be possible with just splash out.

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Saturn94]

Yes, the reported levels look correct to me. From the cell salt model I created with measurements, the amps, voltage and temp result in a salt level of 3090 ppm which is close to the display.

For future reference, is there a formula I can used based on the diagnostic readings that will tell me if everything looks right or not?
Thank you.

 

[JamesW]

I have collected dozens of readings from my SWG over the years (AquaLogic with a T-15) and have fit the measurements to an analytical expression related to the conductivity of a water/salt solution:

Salt PPM = Amps/Volts * (25888 - 163.43 * Tf)

I have had three cells over the years and they all produce salt level readings that fit this expression to within the accuracy of the readout display (<100 ppm) so fairly accurate. Also, all T-15 cells should follow this same equation regardless of the controller used since the applied target voltage is the same.

Hayward Aquarite Pro T-Cell15 Reading Low Salt

What does Hayward say? Did you get the new cell from Hayward?

www.troublefreepool.com

Example.
~27.2v
~5.87a
77degrees

5.87 X (25888 – (163.43 X 77)) ÷ 27.2 = 2871 ppm.

 

[JamesW]

To get the performance percentage of the cell in each polarity, divide the instant salinity reading in each polarity by the actual salinity reading.

For example, if the instant reading is 3,300 ppm and the actual salinity reading is 3,300 ppm, then the salt cell is working at 100%.

However, if the actual salinity was 3,800 ppm, then the performance percentage is 86.8%.

Anything over 75% is acceptable.

At75%, or lower, in either polarity, it's time to consider replacing the cell.

The instant salinity in both polarities should be about the same (+/- about 200 ppm).

You need to be really sure about the actual salinity reading.

You need to use a K-1766 salt test kit or a calibrated meter.

 

[JamesW]

84 temp
25.5 volts
6.48 amps
2900 instant salt
Avg Salt 3100

6.48 X (25888 – (163.43 X 84)) ÷ 25.5 = 3090.

 

[RJ-45]

No contest! Everything is made in China and I think that includes me I once worked in the Electronic manufacturing firm and the parts/assemblies to complete the product are all made in China. The only thing the Company claimed made in the USA is the label "Assembled in the USA" blah. blah... but I am doubtful, too! Noticed the Hayward Aquarite system have no mention where it is made or assembled from other than the US address on the label? Go figure!

I just got our order yesterday, customer insisted Jacuzzi brand from Leslie's.

Every box said "Made in China" View attachment 347686

 

[Saturn94]

Hayward Aquarite Pro T-Cell15 Reading Low Salt

What does Hayward say? Did you get the new cell from Hayward?

www.troublefreepool.com

Example.
~27.2v
~5.87a
77degrees

5.87 X (25888 – (163.43 X 77)) ÷ 27.2 = 2871 ppm.

Great info! Thanks!

 

[Saturn94]

To get the performance percentage of the cell in each polarity, divide the instant salinity reading in each polarity by the actual salinity reading.

For example, if the instant reading is 3,300 ppm and the actual salinity reading is 3,300 ppm, then the salt cell is working at 100%.

However, if the actual salinity was 3,800 ppm, then the performance percentage is 86.8%.

Anything over 75% is acceptable.

At75%, or lower, in either polarity, it's time to consider replacing the cell.

The instant salinity in both polarities should be about the same (+/- about 200 ppm).

You need to be really sure about the actual salinity reading.

You need to use a K-1766 salt test kit or a calibrated meter.

This is where things appeared to go awry for me. The K1766 results compared to the instant salt reading on the older T15 cell indicated the cell was on it’s way out (below the 75% threshold). It wasn’t until I installed a new T15 cell and it read the same as the old cell did it become apparent that something wonky is going on with my K1766 results (new reagents didn’t help) or the SWCG. When I can, I still plan to get a salt meter and calibration fluid to investigate further. For now, however, the new T15 cell is happily generating FC, so I’m in no hurry.

 

[JamesW]

apparent that something wonky is going on with my K1766 results

Never rely on a single salinity test.

I don't trust a salinity reading until I have at least two good tests that are in close agreement.

 

[Saturn94]

Never rely on a single salinity test.

I don't trust a salinity reading until I have at least two good tests that are in close agreement.

Later this month I plan to get a salt meter and see if it coincides with the K1766 test. Until then, I did a bit more searching and came across this troubleshooting flow chart. Interesting, if I follow it, it says to replace the PCB board (main board?). That may explain what is going on with my SWCG (old cell and new cell both reading 900-1000ppm lower than K1766 drop test).

Is this a path worth pursuing?

Also, if it does turn out that the board is responsible for the much lower than actual salt level reading, is there any chance I may damage the new cell by continuing to run it with the actual salt level being high? Right now the cell is reporting 3000-3100 and the K1766 drop test 4000 (current cell diagnostics are 25.2 volts, 6.63 amps, 3000 instant salt, 87 degrees). The Aqua Rite manual says to dilute salt level at 3600 or higher.

I want to make sure that I’m not damaging anything until I can get a meter to confirm actual salt levels.

Thanks!

PS - Not so confident in my “taste test” now. Recently, I have noticed a salty taste (maybe in my head ).

 

[Saturn94]

Never rely on a single salinity test.

I don't trust a salinity reading until I have at least two good tests that are in close agreement.

More info…..

Today I took the old cell and a water sample to Leslies for testing. They said the old cell passed and is fine. Using an electronic meter, they said my pool salt level is 3300, which is close to what my salt cells are reporting (3100).

I’m still at a loss as to why I’m getting such a different result from the K1766. Once I can get a meter it’ll be interesting to see what it says.

 

[Saturn94]

@JamesW
@JoyfulNoise

More info…..

I received a salt meter, 3000ppm calibration solution, and new AquaChek salt test strips (used these successfully for years before switching to the K1766 last August). Note; the below results are rounded to the nearest 100.

First I tested the calibration solution using the strips and K1766. The strips are closer to the 3000ppm standard solution in this case.

Strips: 2800
K1766: 3400

I then tested the pool using the strips, calibrated meter, and K1766:

Strips: 3200
Meter: 3400
K1766: 3800
SWCG readout: 3100
When I took the cells to Leslies for testing, they checked my pool salt level using some electronic device, result 3300

The K1766 seems to be the outlier here.

For me, the point of all this is trying to identify a reliable way I can tell when my salt cell needs to be replaced. It’s been stated here that if the SWCG reported salt level is less than 75% of the actual salt level (using the K1766 per TFP recommendations), the cell needs to be replaced. However, following this advice led me to buying a new cell unnecessarily (next time I’ll have the cell tested before buying a new cell). Frankly, at this point, I don’t trust the K1766 to help me determine if a cell needs replacement.

Thoughts? Am I missing or misunderstanding something? Input appreciated.