Slightly broken Impeller - do I need to replace it?

[nikon5400]

Still trying to locate impeller, but no luck. Quesstion - can SPX4020CKIT be used instead of SPX4015CKIT? the difference is 1/16", but the actual size seems to be the same, unless dimensions on the pictures are wrong.

My new motor is - A.O. Smith Century 2.0 HP Round Flange 56J Up Rate Motor - UST1202 - INYOPools.com
My original motor (according to inyopools) is - A.O. Smith Century 2.0 HP Up Rated NorthStar Replacement Motor - USN1202 - INYOPools.com
The actual pictures from both motors are attached

I thought both motors are Up Rated, but I don't see it saying that on UST1202. According to Hayward rep these motors are not up rated not max rated, but real 2HP motors which would mean SPX4020CKIT can be used. But, I don't know if I cna trust Hayward customer reps, they've been wrong at least twice in the past.

If SPX4020CKIT can be used, which shaft seal should be used, SPX3200SA or SPX4000SA2? It looks like shaft seals are the same size, not sure what the difference is.

Thanks

 

[1poolman1]

Old motor-2.4 total horsepower. That was the the total hp that the old impeller would load the old motor. New motor - 2.2 total horsepower. New motor does not appear to be a Northstar motor. These were special motors made specifically for the Northstar with a very high service factor. Trying to use that SPX4020CKIT on the old motor would burn it out as it is not what Hayward matched from the factory. It is a larger hp rated impeller than what you have and your new motor is even less rated than the old and that new impeller will definitely burn it out. That .2hp difference may not seem much, but it is huge in pumps especially when dealing with Northstars.

 

[nikon5400]

Old motor-2.4 total horsepower. That was the the total hp that the old impeller would load the old motor. New motor - 2.2 total horsepower. New motor does not appear to be a Northstar motor. These were special motors made specifically for the Northstar with a very high service factor. Trying to use that SPX4020CKIT on the old motor would burn it out as it is not what Hayward matched from the factory. It is a larger hp rated impeller than what you have and your new motor is even less rated than the old and that new impeller will definitely burn it out. That .2hp difference may not seem much, but it is huge in pumps especially when dealing with Northstars.

I was able to locate original SPX4015C impeller, I'm assuming I can use it with the new motor? Thanks

P.S. hayward guys are clueless. They told me chipped impeller can be used and SPX4020C is fine too. They don't see either motor up rated/max rated.

 

[1poolman1]

I was able to locate original SPX4015C impeller, I'm assuming I can use it with the new motor? Thanks

P.S. hayward guys are clueless. They told me chipped impeller can be used and SPX4020C is fine too. They don't see either motor up rated/max rated.

Sorry, you will still be putting it on motor that has a service-factor horsepower of 2.2. It will overload the new motor. The original motor was rated at 2.4 and the impeller will load the new motor to that amount. It will draw too many amps and eventually burn out. You could use an SPX4010C without issue. If your new motor has a capacitor housing on the very top, it will interfere with the locking ring on the Northstar and you won't be able to reassemble it.

 

[nikon5400]

Sorry, you will still be putting it on motor that has a service-factor horsepower of 2.2. It will overload the new motor. The original motor was rated at 2.4 and the impeller will load the new motor to that amount. It will draw too many amps and eventually burn out. You could use an SPX4010C without issue. If your new motor has a capacitor housing on the very top, it will interfere with the locking ring on the Northstar and you won't be able to reassemble it.

I am able to put locking ring on it (picture attached).

This is the video I found online where ST1202 (SF 1.3) was used for the same Northstar pump. My new motor is UST1202, which as I understand is up rated. So as my orignal USN1202 according to inyopools

So, you think SPX4015C (IMPELLER 1 1/2 HP FULL Rated, 2PH UP RATED) is a problem for UST1202? If yes, I may look into rebulding my old motor instead (for ~~$125, if it can be rebuilt)

Thanks!

 

[1poolman1]

ST1202 (SF 1.3) = 2.6thp.
UT1202 (SF1.1) = 2.2thp.
Existing impeller requires at least 2.4thp

 

[nikon5400]

ST1202 (SF 1.3) = 2.6thp.
UT1202 (SF1.1) = 2.2thp.
Existing impeller requires at least 2.4thp

Thanks. It looks like SPX4010C can still be found, while I managed to locate SPX4015C and it's already shipped

I currently run my pump 4 hours a day (per Hayward's recomendation..which I guess is questionable...) If I end up going with SPX4010C, how long will I need to run pump for? Pool is about 23k gallons. Thanks

 

[crusemm]

I currently run my pump 4 hours a day (per Hayward's recomendation..which I guess is questionable...) If I end up going with SPX4010C, how long will I need to run pump for? Pool is about 23k gallons. Thanks

Run your pump long enough to skim the surface and filter your water. This is a judgement call, and can be anywhere from 1-8 hours depending on pool. pump. filter, configuration, debris load, swimmer load etc. Turnover times or "chemical mixing" are mostly myths.

 

[nikon5400]

Run your pump long enough to skim the surface and filter your water. This is a judgement call, and can be anywhere from 1-8 hours depending on pool. pump. filter, configuration, debris load, swimmer load etc. Turnover times or "chemical mixing" are mostly myths.

Interesting. Thank you.

 

[nikon5400]

Hi there.

I installed new (slightly used) motor, new shaft seal (Liberty, most likely SP-3890 Viton), new impeller SPX4015C. Ran it for 3 hours. So far no leaks. (Decided to test it for a few days before removing pool cover)

New motor is UST1202 htp2.2 (was told it was used for 1 season, about 4 months).
Original was SP1615-Z-1-MNSC equivalent of USN1202, thp 2.4 (as 1poolman1 pointed out new motor is underpowered and will burn out).

I'm trying to get SPX4010C impeller to match new motor. Another option - rebulding original motor, someone offers to do it for $125 (I got guy's number from some hayward autorized service in NJ. Old guy, doesn't use smart phone, doesn't have an email).

Questions:

1. Is it worth rebuilding 15+yr old motor? I believe I'd have to pay upfront $95 diagnostic fee, which is part of $125 if tech finds motor rebuildable. Tech would also assemble the pump and I believe new gaskets including shaft seal are included, but I could be wrong.
2. New motor is smaller in diameter, so it needs rubber spacer. After running for 2 hours the temperature of the motor near the spacer is about 140 (57 outside). I don't know how hot it can get in the summer and whether the soft rubber I use is good enough, if not what should I use instead? This new motor comes with the spacer, but I didn't get it with the used motor. Would rubber washer hose work? I assume washer hose should handle very high temperatures, since some people set water heaters to over 160 degrees. I could cut it if inner side can handle higher temperatures than outer side.
3. Blue and light blue wires - is this something that needs to be connected to the motor? It was connected to the old motor, but with new motor it'd have to be under the lock ring and the wire will most likely be touching the motor. At least one of these wires comes from heater I never use.
4. I have some leaks in the heater I haven't had before, but I never used heater and unfortunatelly can't bypass it. Should I worry about these leaks? (the other leak on the video usually goes away a couple days after the opening)
5. New motor seems to be very quiet, but I'm not an expert. Since it's not new, I wonder if it sound OK to experts.
6. The surface is uneven. It seems like pipes moved, there's about 1mm of space betwen the horizontal pipe and the pump. There's no leak, but if I see air bubles under the stainer cover lid I can I assume it's coming from the horizontal connection? Can I use 2 union rings there?

new motor noise + pictures

Thanks!

P.S. is it better to have a new post with all these question I have?

 

[1poolman1]

Hi there.

I installed new (slightly used) motor, new shaft seal (Liberty, most likely SP-3890 Viton), new impeller SPX4015C. Ran it for 3 hours. So far no leaks. (Decided to test it for a few days before removing pool cover)

New motor is UST1202 htp2.2 (was told it was used for 1 season, about 4 months).
Original was SP1615-Z-1-MNSC equivalent of USN1202, thp 2.4 (as 1poolman1 pointed out new motor is underpowered and will burn out).

I'm trying to get SPX4010C impeller to match new motor. Another option - rebulding original motor, someone offers to do it for $125 (I got guy's number from some hayward autorized service in NJ. Old guy, doesn't use smart phone, doesn't have an email).

Questions:

1. Is it worth rebuilding 15+yr old motor? I believe I'd have to pay upfront $95 diagnostic fee, which is part of $125 if tech finds motor rebuildable. Tech would also assemble the pump and I believe new gaskets including shaft seal are included, but I could be wrong.
2. New motor is smaller in diameter, so it needs rubber spacer. After running for 2 hours the temperature of the motor near the spacer is about 140 (57 outside). I don't know how hot it can get in the summer and whether the soft rubber I use is good enough, if not what should I use instead? This new motor comes with the spacer, but I didn't get it with the used motor. Would rubber washer hose work? I assume washer hose should handle very high temperatures, since some people set water heaters to over 160 degrees. I could cut it if inner side can handle higher temperatures than outer side.
3. Blue and light blue wires - is this something that needs to be connected to the motor? It was connected to the old motor, but with new motor it'd have to be under the lock ring and the wire will most likely be touching the motor. At least one of these wires comes from heater I never use.
4. I have some leaks in the heater I haven't had before, but I never used heater and unfortunatelly can't bypass it. Should I worry about these leaks? (the other leak on the video usually goes away a couple days after the opening)
5. New motor seems to be very quiet, but I'm not an expert. Since it's not new, I wonder if it sound OK to experts.
6. The surface is uneven. It seems like pipes moved, there's about 1mm of space betwen the horizontal pipe and the pump. There's no leak, but if I see air bubles under the stainer cover lid I can I assume it's coming from the horizontal connection? Can I use 2 union rings there?

new motor noise + pictures

Thanks!

P.S. is it better to have a new post with all these question I have?

Heater is shot, that's the heat exchanger and its been leaking quite a while and the heater is beyond repair. Best to cut it out now. You need a new O ring on the check valve lid unless someone overtightened a screw. But you don't need that valve anyway. Standard motors typically run that hot, but if your impeller is oversize for the motor it will burn it out. Those wires are supposed to be a single 8ga. wire hooked to the pool bond grid. But, the bond lug on that motor, if it is still there, is under the locking ring that holds the pump together. Its inaccessible. Piece of hose, hose washers, wood shim, doesn't matter, if it lasts it will run for years without it.

 

[nikon5400]

Heater is shot, that's the heat exchanger and its been leaking quite a while and the heater is beyond repair. Best to cut it out now. You need a new O ring on the check valve lid unless someone overtightened a screw. But you don't need that valve anyway. Standard motors typically run that hot, but if your impeller is oversize for the motor it will burn it out. Those wires are supposed to be a single 8ga. wire hooked to the pool bond grid. But, the bond lug on that motor, if it is still there, is under the locking ring that holds the pump together. Its inaccessible. Piece of hose, hose washers, wood shim, doesn't matter, if it lasts it will run for years without it.

I think I found the source of a leak (pic below). I tighted it a bit and it seems to be better now. Pump is running, will check in a few hours
I detach these when I close my pool to blow the water out of the heater. Do I need take apart this part? I also remove 3 heater plugs on 2 sides of the heater, blow the lines and put plugs back in.

Any idea how much it'd cost to bypass the heater? I added pictures (also below) with inlet outlet connections. Is there an off the shelf PVC part which can be used to connect the two pipes?

I have 2 bond wires, not one. One runs from the heater, so I guess once heater is out I'll only be left with one wire. Also, the 2 wires are connected and that connection is what get attached to the motor (pic below). Since I don't use heater, can I just get the bond connection from the heater and connect to the motor now, before disconnecting and bypassing heater? This way I'd not need to get an extension wire.

thanks