Slam questions

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kimkats said:
Most of the PS chlorine starts at 12% but does lower with heat and time. I say mine is 10% just because I would rather go over than under.

Kim
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Thanks Kim for the info. I don't buy mine from the pool store, so I wasn't sure how theirs ran, but that's the only other thing I could think of that could be the issue on him getting the higher than expected levels when he adds what PM says to add. I think most people do just go ahead, and plug in the 10% for that very reason, don't they? I also agree that it's better to be over than under, especially when fighting algae, so just trying to keep him from being too much over, if he doesn't have to be. :)

Have a wonderful day, and I hope classes are going well.
 
It looks like you didn't lower the pH before adding chlorine for the SLAM. So the pH rose a lot so if you had metal in the water such as copper it could turn green (or if you have blue plaster then it could be iron where yellow on blue looks green). If your CYA is 40 ppm and you added 25 ppm FC (which is higher than SLAM of 16), then starting at pH 7.2 with TA 70 ppm your pH would end up at 8.2. Had you only gone to the SLAM level of 16, the pH would have only gone to between 7.7 and 7.8.

If your FC and CYA numbers are correct, the chlorine would bleach out the chlorophyll in the algae and the pool would be cloudy, not green.

Do you have a large white bucket where you can take pool water and if so does it have a green tint? If so, then try adding some acid to the water in the bucket and if the green lightens or goes away you probably have metals in the water. Since you came home and the pH was very high it may be that you mainly had metals in the water in the first place. If you had algae, you would likely have noticed a higher chlorine demand even overnight.
 
chem geek said:
It looks like you didn't lower the pH before adding chlorine for the SLAM. So the pH rose a lot so if you had metal in the water such as copper it could turn green (or if you have blue plaster then it could be iron where yellow on blue looks green). If your CYA is 40 ppm and you added 25 ppm FC (which is higher than SLAM of 16), then starting at pH 7.2 with TA 70 ppm your pH would end up at 8.2. Had you only gone to the SLAM level of 16, the pH would have only gone to between 7.7 and 7.8.

If your FC and CYA numbers are correct, the chlorine would bleach out the chlorophyll in the algae and the pool would be cloudy, not green.

Do you have a large white bucket where you can take pool water and if so does it have a green tint? If so, then try adding some acid to the water in the bucket and if the green lightens or goes away you probably have metals in the water. Since you came home and the pH was very high it may be that you mainly had metals in the water in the first place. If you had algae, you would likely have noticed a higher chlorine demand even overnight.
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Thanks. I will find a bucket. My plaster is blue-ish. It is more of a white/blue speckle. I did lower my ph prior to the slam to around 7.2. I have not attempted to test it since as I thought the numbers would be way off anyway due to the high fc for the slam. Should I try checking ph now as well?

If the bucket shows green and acid lightens it, how do I correct or get rid of the metals in the water?
 
No need to test pH while FC is over 10. "IF" you learn that you do indeed have metals in the water:
Ideally, the more “pre-filtering” of iron you can do to physically remove before treating chemically the better. Some folks have had decent success placing layers of dishrags, paper towels, or pillow batting in the skimmer to catch iron/rust particles. Others place socks or other products over the garden hose as they fill. Other methods have been used such as increasing the FC and/or PH levels to help separate the metal ions and then vacuuming and/or filtering-out the residual metal from the main filter media, but this can be risky if the metal is allowed to rest on the pool surfaces and may cause staining if not watched closely. Your best and most reliable bet is to add sequestrant to the water and replenish it periodically. Sequestrant is a chemical that binds to the iron in the water so that it can't form stains or turn brown. Unfortunately, sequestrant breaks down slowly, you need to add more regularly. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff (regular), the Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and the Purple Stuff (SWG) are some of the top sequestrants.
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These may come-in handy later as well:
Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
Green water and low ph
 
You said earlier you fill exclusively from rain water, so if it's not metals, that's a good thing. But yes, the pool store can confirm. When they ask, just say you're there for a standard free test and let them do their thing. Nod, smile, then leave with the results. :)
 
Blivit79, if the pool store DOES show copper or iron/or if you get a copper/iron kit, then you will need to use a good dose of metal sequestrant, but not until you pass the overnight chlorine loss test and bring the FC back down, as sequestrant doesn't work right at high FC.

The two recommended brands (by TFP) are Jack's Magic and Metal Magic. Jack's requires lowering ph to 7.2, Metal Magic prefers your ph is above 7.5.

Just for consideration...while you top up with rainwater, and are on city water, if you've only had the pool for 1 year it IS possible that the previous owner used products that contain copper and you have residual metals that never troubled you when you kept the ph well controlled ;)

Your water is starting to look "clear-ish" green to me, which can be suspect in terms of metals. But its also possible to have had BOTH conditions...algae plus tinting from oxidized metals.

Btw, re an earlier comment, while I have not personally needed to use the Slimebag, I have read several accounts of it helping in cases where circulation/filtration is underwhelming and water is cloudy or tinted from oxidization of metals...most often in above-ground pools. If you want/need to look into it, here's the link The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. . If you do decide to get one, get the version with the attachment to the return eyelet for your purposes.

Best wishes.
 
singingpond said:
Apologies if you have already answered this question, but what does the filter cartridge look like when you pull it out for cleaning? Color? Do you see a lot of stuff coming off when you wash the cartridge? Or not?
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I will try to take a picture of it the next time I take it out. Looking at it quickly, it looks rather clean. The pleats are still mostly white but there is a slight greenish tint in some areas. As I am hosing it off though, the water coming off is completely green. I rinse it until the water runs clear then reinstall. Every time I have cleaned it, it has had the same level of green.

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Swampwoman said:
Blivit79, if the pool store DOES show copper or iron/or if you get a copper/iron kit, then you will need to use a good dose of metal sequestrant, but not until you pass the overnight chlorine loss test and bring the FC back down, as sequestrant doesn't work right at high FC.

The two recommended brands (by TFP) are Jack's Magic and Metal Magic. Jack's requires lowering ph to 7.2, Metal Magic prefers your ph is above 7.5.

Just for consideration...while you top up with rainwater, and are on city water, if you've only had the pool for 1 year it IS possible that the previous owner used products that contain copper and you have residual metals that never troubled you when you kept the ph well controlled ;)

Your water is starting to look "clear-ish" green to me, which can be suspect in terms of metals. But its also possible to have had BOTH conditions...algae plus tinting from oxidized metals.

Btw, re an earlier comment, while I have not personally needed to use the Slimebag, I have read several accounts of it helping in cases where circulation/filtration is underwhelming and water is cloudy or tinted from oxidization of metals...most often in above-ground pools. If you want/need to look into it, here's the link The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water. . If you do decide to get one, get the version with the attachment to the return eyelet for your purposes.

Best wishes.
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The pool store I go to is really close, I have just never taken a sample in. I will try to get that done to get an idea of metals.

I have no idea how the previous owner took care of the pool other than using pucks. Those were gone by the time I moved in and I have never used them myself.

Most likely it's just the perfect storm....everything hit at once.

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8/24 am:

FC 16
CC 0.5

I did a lot of cleaning yesterday as I was home. Cleaned the filter twice and swept everything at least 3 times throughout the day.

FC is going down which is good.
 

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Blivit79 said:
I will try to take a picture of it the next time I take it out. Looking at it quickly, it looks rather clean. The pleats are still mostly white but there is a slight greenish tint in some areas. As I am hosing it off though, the water coming off is completely green. I rinse it until the water runs clear then reinstall. Every time I have cleaned it, it has had the same level of green...
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Green stuff washing off the filter does sound like algae (not ruling out metal problems; as pointed out by Swampwoman, the problems can co-exist). I don't know how all the various metal problems manifest on filtration. We, for example, have iron in our well water, and that shows up as a distinctive rust color on the filter cartridge (not green at all).

If I were you, I would be inclined to capture some of that green filter rinse water in your white bucket, in order to do an experiment (maybe a couple of experiments). The first thing I'd try (one water sample) is to gradually add small amounts of bleach, maybe by the spoonful, and see if the green color bleaches out at some point - if it is green from algae chlorophyll, the bleach should visibly break that down, which would be interesting to know.

This is not a part of normal TFP procedure, just a personal suggestion. Your pool is not really acting like a typical pool during SLAM, in the sense that it is still fairly vividly green, yet is not really consuming all that much FC. Also, it appears that you are being quite diligent in testing, maintaining chlorine levels, and brushing (pool owner sloppiness or misunderstanding of the SLAM process is sometimes a factor in keeping a pool green, but I think that can be ruled out, based on your posts).
 
singingpond said:
Green stuff washing off the filter does sound like algae (not ruling out metal problems; as pointed out by Swampwoman, the problems can co-exist). I don't know how all the various metal problems manifest on filtration. We, for example, have iron in our well water, and that shows up as a distinctive rust color on the filter cartridge (not green at all).

If I were you, I would be inclined to capture some of that green filter rinse water in your white bucket, in order to do an experiment (maybe a couple of experiments). The first thing I'd try (one water sample) is to gradually add small amounts of bleach, maybe by the spoonful, and see if the green color bleaches out at some point - if it is green from algae chlorophyll, the bleach should visibly break that down, which would be interesting to know.

This is not a part of normal TFP procedure, just a personal suggestion. Your pool is not really acting like a typical pool during SLAM, in the sense that it is still fairly vividly green, yet is not really consuming all that much FC. Also, it appears that you are being quite diligent in testing, maintaining chlorine levels, and brushing (pool owner sloppiness or misunderstanding of the SLAM process is sometimes a factor in keeping a pool green, but I think that can be ruled out, based on your posts).
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Good idea with the water runoff. I'll give that a shot.

I do not mind being diligent; especially once I get frustrated lol. Any time I have issues with anything it consumes me unfortunately until it is resolved. People here are much more knowledgeable on this topic than I am so anything that pops up here I am willing to try.
 
Hey Blivit79,
You have some really good and knowledgeable people following your thread now, so I think you will get to the bottom of this, glad to know FC is falling some. Been thinking a lot about this, I may be way off base but if I am, experts please jump in here and correct me, but I feel circulation is a big problem. So what if you took the filter out for a few hours and measured FC drop and compared it with similar time frame with filter in, both time frames start with same FC level. I am thinking filter is getting clogged quickly and decreasing circulation. Before you do this though, please be sure running without filter will not hurt your equipment. You will loose filtration time which I think is a second and co contributing factor. A test with a slime bag may be helpful testing filtration, but then again it is not my $100 buying the slime bag that may not help the problem in the long run. Also it may clog quickly also, so be close to watch it especially if you only have 1 return. But I like the idea of testing for metals first and foremost so you know better what you are dealing with. Hope things start turning around soon.
 
Pool Amateur said:
Hey Blivit79,
You have some really good and knowledgeable people following your thread now, so I think you will get to the bottom of this, glad to know FC is falling some. Been thinking a lot about this, I may be way off base but if I am, experts please jump in here and correct me, but I feel circulation is a big problem. So what if you took the filter out for a few hours and measured FC drop and compared it with similar time frame with filter in, both time frames start with same FC level. I am thinking filter is getting clogged quickly and decreasing circulation. Before you do this though, please be sure running without filter will not hurt your equipment. You will loose filtration time which I think is a second and co contributing factor. A test with a slime bag may be helpful testing filtration, but then again it is not my $100 buying the slime bag that may not help the problem in the long run. Also it may clog quickly also, so be close to watch it especially if you only have 1 return. But I like the idea of testing for metals first and foremost so you know better what you are dealing with. Hope things start turning around soon.
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It has to be based on the oddity of my situation. Maybe it's like a car accident...you don't want to look...but you feel you have to lol.

Prior to this I only watched the pressure gauge to judge when to clean the filter. It only went up once, cleaned the filter and it was fine again. Even now, the pressure is not going up yet the filter seems to be coated with green junk.

Time I have no issue with but throwing money at this is a little more difficult. Especially when I know my electric bill will probably be double what it is normally due to running the pump constantly. So, a slimebag (or 3 as I have 3 returns) is not really in the cards right now. A new filter I MAY do...we'll see...

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Question on my filter...

My filter housing is a Pentair 160316 which says is a 100 sq-ft unit. The current cartridge unit is a pleatco and has PAP200 on it. Wouldn't that be a 200 sq-ft filter? Is that a problem?
 
Yes, pap200 is a 200sf filter. Look closer at the filter label, Pentair uses the same label with multiple filter sizes on it and only one of the sizes is marked.
 
A light at the end of the...pool...

So today the pool is the clearest it has been since I started. I can see the bottom in the shallow end and can make out shadows of the vacuum etc in the deep end. It is definitely getting there. FC today was 15 so again it dropped. I added bleach to get it back up to 16-17. CC still 0. The bucket picture shows what I collected from cleaning the filter. Now, what can/should I do with this to see what it actually is? Try adding bleach to see if it gets clear?

Pictures from today:
20150824_155057_resized.jpg
View attachment 42057
 
YEAH, Looks like things are finally doing what they should be doing. Just keep on heading forward. You are doing great. :) The stuff in the bucket looks like plain ole algae slime yuck to me. So since you are finally make decent progress getting a lot of that out of your pool, perhaps you should just keep doing what you're doing, and not worry about testing the bucket contents with bleach to see if it clears or not, as I suspect that it will clear with enough added bleach.

****Other members with more experience then me may tell you differently because they know a lot more about the mineral issues etc. than I do, so if they do follow their advice as opposed to mine, but until then I say just keep on keeping on as you have been because you're doing an awesome job. *****

Have a nice day :)
 

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