More like a bag of jalepeno’s. What you agree to today might make your a** bleed tomorrow.
Significant Builder Delays
- Thread starter uvavi8r
- Start date
I can't say that I agree in my case. Sure I gave my pool builder a huge chunk of change but any time I have needed to speak to him, he has made himself available to me for up to a half hour of texting. He's been good n I feel like he will deliver me the best pool experience and product.
That is your PB fault. I dont understand how he can dig a hole and expect to walk away from it for 6 months and not have a cave in. AND I'd be sure to tell him that too! He's lucky I'm not his client. My PB hasn't touched my ground n I signed in March. I dont need an 8ft hole in my yard.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,202
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Wow! What does your contract have to say regarding contractor performance? This thread describes some of the issues that make the bidding and selection process so important. When most (if not all) potential pool owners are completely focused on the specification for the job it's at least as important to have agreed in advance that the following are acceptable:
So what do you do in the situation described? You have a couple choices:
Chris
- The capability and experience of the builder
- A milestone payment plan that is fair to both parties and is close to "work in place" costs, not advance payment with no requirements on how payment funds are used
- A quality plan for the project
- Terms and conditions that are complete and fair to both parties
- Clear warranty definition and obligation of builder for warranty
- Performance test and with-holding that is not released until the test has been successfully completed
- Hidden conditions
- Delays (foreseen and unforeseen)
- Release of liens provisions to protect you if subs are not paid even after you pay the builder
So what do you do in the situation described? You have a couple choices:
- Sit down one-on-one with the builder and modify the contract to be complete and fair to both parties. Agree on a path forward that is NOT you just keep paying for his mistakes and failure to plan, rather one that is fair to both parties.
- Based on current cost increased cost and schedule the job re-forecast the job to anticipate similar delays and cost increases for the entire remainder of work and decide if it may be best to stay with the current contractor. Sometimes it is but not usually when there is a lot of remaining work. Also, check your contract carefully for termination rights. Consult an attorney if you are unsure. Sometimes termination can be way more difficult and costly than you may think especially if the contract was written by PB's attorney without modification.
- If termination is the best answer and possible at cost acceptable to you, select a new contractor using a process that addressees the items above and look forward to a great construction job and a pool you can enjoy for years to come.
Chris
That is an ADULT WORD NO!!! That is all on him!! IF he and his crews had done their job right the cave in would not have happened. AND it will happen again if their is nothing on the dirt to hold it in place!! GURRRRR and BAD PB!!!
Same here. I’m grumbling to myself about no updates, but PB was crystal clear to call his cell at any time. He has answered on the 2nd ring the 5 times I did call. So a lot of my radio silence is me not calling just to hear that he is waiting on XYZ parts still.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,202
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Every construction contract I've entered into requires a defined minimal amount of reporting. Pool contracts and contractors are not and should not be as sophisticated as required for a mega chemical plant. For one thing most of the time you can see progress by walking back to look behind your house. Also reporting costs money so the requirements should not be extreme but they should not be zero. After what's happened in the last 18 months with covid and lingering impacts I would strengthen my requirements around equipment and materials procurement in the contract and in the selection process. Most contractors are well-versed in equipment and materials procurement. Prior to covid it was simple. You order and they deliver everything within a couple weeks. It's way different than that now and probably won't be back to the old way for at least another year. Procurement optimization, it's impact on execution planning, and procurement expediting is something the pool building industry seems destined to learn about the hard way.
Chris
Chris
Our contract was signed in March, still waiting for the dig. I at least get a weekly update from the builder letting me know where I sit on the wait list. So that is nice I guess.
We were also "lucky" in that case with our build. Our builder was excellent at communication and was on schedule with every phase of the build. The Supe was at our build at least 3 times a week "doing his job". Our sales guy even showed up a few times during the build just to see if we needed anything and if the build was going the way we intended. But this was also pre-COVID.
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Our builder was awesome also but I knew him since I was a kid and my grandmother spent the last 8 urs of her life above his pool place in an apt he built so she could actually be close to my parents. He got all of his deadlines on time but that might have been due to the fact that each deadline was agreed with delivery of a different recipe my grandmother used to make for him various times of the week and he hasn’t had her cooking in years. My wife said finish this phase by this date and you get sauce. This phase you get the soup you liked. Lol. Bribery worked wonders. Lol. He would have anyway but it did make him really happy to have her cooking again.
Right now during covid he is struggling with material. He has a million jobs going and they are moving as they get material. It’s as simple as that. He said I want these pools done also cause obviously he wants to get paid but parts are rough.
Right now during covid he is struggling with material. He has a million jobs going and they are moving as they get material. It’s as simple as that. He said I want these pools done also cause obviously he wants to get paid but parts are rough.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,202
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
The last two posts happen when you end up with a great contractor that's also a great fit for you. It a great experience when owner and builder can look back with pride and have fond memories about it forever.. If you don't have a best friend that's also a great builder, a focus on best practices for contracting gives you a very high probability of getting a great builder that's a great fit even if you don't know anybody in the industry.
Chris
Chris
Yah my build was not typical mold. My whole family and circle of friends are contractors so every person on my build was there to help me not there to make a buck. Same when I built. My whole home I can say is a labor of love and the few people I didn’t know who worked at my property were under the mama bear watch of my dads buddies. You messed with me you would end up in the dumpster by them.
I can relate to many of the post here. My builder was so patient and easy going prior to the contract being signed that I never even checked with any other builders. My situation isn't as bad as some here but my pool was supposed to begin on Mar 1 with a 12 week timeline given pending bad weather. The started June 1, the day it should have been completed. The builder's communication is excellent,....when he wants a check. He came here the first day during the dig. He came after the pool was shot, to get a check. I have become the project manager notifying him of mistakes that were made, on and on and on, with no results. Been waiting for over a month to get an issue repaired so they can proceed. I send emails, text, make phone calls and today he finally said someone would come out and look at the current issue. At 6p I texted him to see if they were still coming and he says no, he will check tomorrow. I have been trying to hold my frustrations because I think it is both of our interest to get this thing finished. Like a poster above, if they would just tell me what they were going to do and when, I could deal with it. But the project that should have been completed almost 2 months ago is no where near being finished. I'm seeing Thanksgiving in my mind. But I don't think all of his customers get this special service. In fact, I saw a post on FB from someone who is delighted with him as I think many are. For whatever reason, the service he has provided has been poor at the best. I feel like I'm approaching an overload moment. Plans are to send him a detailed email tomorrow expressing my dissatisfaction if they don't show again. Getting tired of trying to get them to do their job.
Sorry for the long post but it does help me relieve my frustrations. And I know I'm not in lone company.
Sorry for the long post but it does help me relieve my frustrations. And I know I'm not in lone company.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,202
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
What does your contract say regarding schedule performance and milestones for payment? Sounds to me there's a very good possibility that he has front-loaded the payment schedule and/or he's run into material/labor delays. This is why it's so important to pay for work in place as close as possible. If it were me I'd send a formal letter certified mail and request an in-person meeting. Document everything. Not that you plan to sue (rarely successful) but it tells him you are serious. It would be very helpful if you can also tell him he's in breach of contract but I doubt he is unless you negotiated the terms of the contract as most must do to get a fair contract.
If he explains clearly what the problem is with schedule performance and there is no leverage for you in the contract, best option is usually to work with him to solve the problem. If you have termination rights that could be a alternative but it's rarely your best option. One thing I would do is to try to talk with his subcontractor's owner. Ask them if they have been paid on time. If they have not been this could be a big warning sign he's using your payments to pay for work on other jobs. If this is the case you should not make final payment until you get release of liens documentation.
Wish I could be more helpful but once the contract is signed there isn't much you can do to change it.
Chris
My contact does not have any time schedule listed. It's a very basic contract, has payment schedules, description of work to be done, size of pool w/ depth, how much decking, what equip but no model numbers, and a list of cost for extras like more decking, deck spouts, kool deck, retaining walls. I do have a recording of him stating that it usually takes 12 weeks dependent on the weather. I had another recording but deleted and wish I knew what was said on that one. After being stood up yesterday, after over a month of repeated attempts to get them out here to fix a problem so work can continue, I sent a polite but honest account of my frustrations with the build. I pointed out that I have been put into a position of project manager, finding and reporting issues, because there is NO ONE out here supervising or inspecting work afterwards. None of the quoted time-lines have been met, sloppy workmanship, etc. I told them that I am sure that their workers are out there everyday doing new work and I wanted them to fix my work that should have been taken care of prior to starting new jobs. No response as of yet but before anything escalates, I felt it was my responsibility to give him a direct, honest and polite detail of our unsatisfactory experience. I know of some who are delighted with this builder but for whatever reason it seems that we have been neglected. Will see if they step up.
Without a timeline, I don't know what we could do legally. At some point I would say that even without any deadlines that they are bound to fulfill the contract. If it were shown that other builds were started and completed afterwards, I would think that would speak volumes. BTW, I have a retired and bored brother in law that is a retired prosecutor. Being an attorney was his passion, he would probably enjoy pursuing something like this for enjoyment. But I fully expect that in the end everything will be taken care of and would not ever expect legal action to be necessary. Just frustrated and want it over!
Without a timeline, I don't know what we could do legally. At some point I would say that even without any deadlines that they are bound to fulfill the contract. If it were shown that other builds were started and completed afterwards, I would think that would speak volumes. BTW, I have a retired and bored brother in law that is a retired prosecutor. Being an attorney was his passion, he would probably enjoy pursuing something like this for enjoyment. But I fully expect that in the end everything will be taken care of and would not ever expect legal action to be necessary. Just frustrated and want it over!
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,202
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
You definitely have a lever that most don't with your brother. I would think the builder may be smart enough to realize the last names are the same so your threshold due to legal costs may be lower than most. But I think you're smart to hold off on this and continue to work with the builder. Weird that he seems to have satisfied clients, I would ask him directly why is your pool so far behind and others are not. I would also check to see if any liens have been attached to your pool. Your brother should be able to point you in the right direction to get this done. It's not hard to do.
Chris
He's my brother in law, lives in a different town and the builder would not know. I would never expect it to get to that point though. The builder showed us two pools he built and one of them is a friend of my sister. I got my sister to ask her about him and she said from her memory, that they had no issues. The other one was a very large house and they built one for them as well as their neighbor. My gut feeling is if he thinks he may get referrals, he may do a better job in staying on top of things. I recall he said he remembered the gate combination to their house which tells me he had been there enough times to remember. I gave him the code for our gate but they have never been here. Plus I am newly retired and he may know that I am here most of the time and not feel like he needs to come. Other than that, both of those pools the permits were pulled in the Fall which was probably a slower time plus the homeowners were probably more at ease since they wouldn't be able to use it until the next spring. Mine was requested late March but wasn't issued until early May. One I saw on FB where someone seemed delighted was permitted early Oct and they may have gotten an earlier start. So potential factors that may account for my experience versus a happy customer may be related to the time of year construction was occurring, the perceived potential for referrals from other high income people, the location of the job or the market demand. Mine is a little more involved due to the amount of retaining wall that will have to be built along with a pool house basement wall. If it were in flatter ground, it would have been a simpler job not having to deal with the elevations. The builder has been doing this for 40 years so his reputation seems to be pretty good from what I can tell. I think he needs a review afterwards to give a more balanced view of his work.