Signed contract Last NIGHT ...What should I look out for on my PB? bait and switch stuff..........

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T

Tunesmun

0
Jul 10, 2018
25
NJ
OK ...We just signed last night!.........659ConceptSketch.jpg.nervous & excited

I'd like a check list of stuff that I can check as the project moves along .....I want to make sure we are getting what we paid for (ie Hydrazzo plaster finish(how do I make sure they don't give me a Generic or something close so they make more money on me) Does anyone have what the bags look like ? anything else we can check you guys can think of
 
Hmmmm....not trying to be rude here but you’re already worried about your PB’s ethics :unsure: not a good way to start a relationship.

First thing is to relax. Your in for several months of almost daily intrusion by workers and contractors on your property, best to try to make peace with that now or else you’re going to be a very unhappy camper. Yes, there are horror stories out there but, like most anything that is an extreme event, they get amplified and exaggerated well beyond the factual circumstances. And you’re only hearing one side of the story.

As for hydrazzo, great choice (and very expensive). I love that finish. It’s very easy to determine what plaster you are getting. Simply go outside on plaster day and look at the bags that the installers shows up with. Verify that they are Hydrazzo, that the color is clearly specified and that it matches what is in your contract. Then get out of the way and let the plasterers do their job.

You have to be part of this project, not just a bystander. I highly suggest that you go over the schedule with your pool builder and that you plan to be there everyday that workers are on site. Does that mean you’ll be inconvenienced and possibly need to take lots of personal time off to oversee things? YES. Is it worth it? Absolutely.

Feel free to post your contract details for the guides here to look at. They’ll let you know if they spot anything hokey...
 
T-man,

From my time here at TFP, what you are suggesting just does not seem to happen.. Not that mistakes are not made, but I don't remember any reports of pool builders selling one thing and providing something else.

I also suggest that you relax.. if not, you will be dead before the pool is finished.. :mrgreen:

Jim R.
 
Please remember this is NJ... I sell commercial roofing materials to roofing contractors they all collude etc.
85% of them are bad guys...they would switch anything to put more money in there pockets

So this is why I’m nervous
 
Do a something for me...........do some looking around in the Under Construction section of TFP. There are more good stories than bad. Are their hiccups? Mistakes? Yeppers just like in any part of life.

What can you do to make your build a good build is to share every thing here. Start off with a complete list of your equipment. Let us look in over and make sure it is what your pool will NEED. I am willing to bet there are some things listed that are needed or too small.

I will also tell you that you will have to spend quite a bit of time and effort on your build. NO one is going to care as much as you so you will have "jobs" to do for each part of the build. If you do a search for my name you will notice I have helped build a couple/few pools. I can/will guide you on your build as well. (Oh I was told I say the word poop a lot :roll: LOL)

Kim:kim:
 
One of the biggest problems from my observations, is that owners do not understand construction methods or how to tell quality workmanship from poor workmanship. Then when things start happening the owner doesnt understand what is happening, or the product being installed isnt what it looked like in a picture and they panic.

And its also true that some PBs price expensive stuff but then the workmanship of the workers may not meet the home owners expectations and may actually be poor. Maybe the PBs preferred contractors arent available for a month and so he takes what he can get to keep the project going? Those things can and do happen.

Communication with your PB and even the crew on site is critical for a good nights sleep.
If you see something which concerns you just ask them, but in a nice way. If you make accusatory comments or seem offensive its the worse thing you can do.
 
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here's my Pool contract details ...please let me know your thoughts on equipment that I should loook out for them doing the bait and switch...also which items you see that there is a newer better technology out now...thanks Scott
 

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Scott,

You are currently getting the IntelliTouch automation system.. I suggest that you look at Pentair's new IntelliCenter which is a much better system for just about the same amount of money.. Here are only a couple of the improvements... The IntelliTouch allows you to have 12 programs.. the IntelliCenter 100. The IntelliTouch requires the additional ScreenLogic system, where a similar is built into the IntelliCenter. If the IntelliTouch needs new firmware, a tech has to come out to your house. With the IntelliCenter, you can just download it from the internet.

Don't get me wrong, the IntelliTouch and ScreenLogic will work just fine.. But, the IntelliCenter will work better.

Using water power to clean your pool is 1960's technology. It is like using an old black rotary-dial phone instead of a cell phone.. Yes, they both make phone calls, but.... I suggest that you dump the booster pump and pressure side cleaner and move into this Century and buy a robot cleaner.. Robot cleaners work off of low voltage DC and do a much better job of keeping your pool clean without having to run your pumps.

I normally say to dumb any UV system as they are mostly magic, but without the rabbit... :mrgreen: But with an autocover, it may be just helpful enough to keep.

One final thing.. I may have missed it, but how big is the pool going to be in gallons? I ask, because I want to make sure that your IC60 salt system is going to work for you.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
A few comments:

Remove the UV system (not needed in outdoor residential pools - get credit). So long as you don't keep the cover closed all the time.
Remove the booster pump (get credit).
Remove the Kreepy Krauly clenaer (get credit).
Budget $750-1,000 for a Dolphin robot.
Coping - What is the surface of the bluestone? Thermal (most expensive) or natural cleft - not smooth but...natural. Mine is natural. I suspect a Hampton's pool is thermal which is more expensive and more uniform.
Autocover - I know you are in NJ, but it seems like you are getting raked over the coals on this one. Almost $30K!! Ouch. My favorite line item is getting charged for building a pool that is in square. I get that is not required otherwise, but to charge for it? My cover a few years back was $13K - all in, with bluestone coping just like yours. But if that's the market, it is what it is.
Autocover - I don't understand their verbiage about caulking and sanding the autocover stones. Why would they do this? What happens each time you remove them to clean the cover pit or address an issue? Do you recaulk each time? There is no purpose to it that I see, but it would be good to get their explanation before saying "don't do it".

Being in sales/construction, I suspect you don't have any reservations about speaking up. As mentioned above, it's your pool. Don't let them talk you into anything because "that's how we do it", etc. There are a few ways to do things right, and many opportunities to do it the way they've always done it. And many times the don't align. So tell them what you want and not vice versa.
 

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i konw i'm getting crushed on the auto cover...I've been figgting them since day one that they are HIGH ...i got quotes all 10k less , but they claim they do it different etc....I can still fight after I signed correct?
 
You can always use a robot. I have a pressure port (for a cleaner) that I have never used from day one.

The biggest thing with pool builders, as with all builders, is they will follow the letter of their contract. I would not worry about bait and switch accept from the salesguy to the contract. But once you have your contract, they will adhere to it. You are paying a lot for some things but it is what it is at this point.
 
Wow holy smokes your prices are ridiculous! Were all builders the same as this? My bluestone coping was $0 extra. My sunshelf was like $1000 extra. $10k extra for plaster? $1800 for startup? And not to mention your prices alone for each step. Doesn't even include a fence or decking it seems. Are you doing that yourself?
 
I guess my question would be have they been in business for at least a decade or two? I’m sure you did your due diligence on this important part. Also, from my experience, that smiling, affable salesperson you dealt with, you’ll never see again. In that case, you need to make the construction Forman/Supervisor your new, best friend. Really, get him on your side and let him surmise that you’re going to be involved in every aspect of the project, so he might as well take good care of you from the start.

My recent build was complicated, because it involved the PB and a contractor for the pool house. The PB had to travel 1:30 to get to my place, so scheduling, etc. became an issue. But he’d been in the business for 30+ years and had done a lot of higher-end pools, so I took the bad with the good. Another thing I learned is that once the job is done and they drive away, the manual they give you or the ground school someone provides just before they leave will be woefully inadequate. You have taken the most important step toward enjoyment and care of your investment by being here and asking questions.

Good luck on your project, and decide if you’re comfortable with your PB quickly. This is when you can bail, but soon, it will be too late.

Bill
 
Mackhatter said:
I guess my question would be have they been in business for at least a decade or two? I’m sure you did your due diligence on this important part. Also, from my experience, that smiling, affable salesperson you dealt with, you’ll never see again. In that case, you need to make the construction Forman/Supervisor your new, best friend. Really, get him on your side and let him surmise that you’re going to be involved in every aspect of the project, so he might as well take good care of you from the start.

My recent build was complicated, because it involved the PB and a contractor for the pool house. The PB had to travel 1:30 to get to my place, so scheduling, etc. became an issue. But he’d been in the business for 30+ years and had done a lot of higher-end pools, so I took the bad with the good. Another thing I learned is that once the job is done and they drive away, the manual they give you or the ground school someone provides just before they leave will be woefully inadequate. You have taken the most important step toward enjoyment and care of your investment by being here and asking questions.

Good luck on your project, and decide if you’re comfortable with your PB quickly. This is when you can bail, but soon, it will be too late.

Bill
Click to expand...
Thanks Bill , I'll be all over the project manager and making sure they know I'm not going to be a jerk, but I will want to befriend them with (water , Snacks etc... haha
 
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Are they charging 350 per load to remove material from the site? Dirt, gravel, etc? Glad my buddy owns an excavation company.

Why is the startup so expensive? I don’t get that at all.

I would not get the uv like others have said. Also deff a robot.

I’m so confused. So is that price also for all the other stuff that is in the drawing from the designer or just the pool?

My cousin lives in Chatham New Jersey which I know is an expensive area and his plaster pool prices were no where near that.

What were the other estimates like that you got?

The design is pretty cool. It will look awesome when done. But man expensive.
 
On Hydrazoo plaster finish which I have. Resources - CL Industries says:

A valid warranty should be a 3 part form – white to CLI, Yellow to applicator and Pink to pool owner. Each form should have a unique number printed on the upper right corner. The applicator should complete his/her name, address, telephone number, date pool completed, finish (product name & color), and batch #. The home owner should sign and date the forms and send by certified mail to CLI at address listed on warranty. Warranty claim procedures are on back of warranty along with chemistry parameters.

Confirm that you will be getting the manufacturers warranty. I didn't. And when I had problems and asked my PB about it he said they never do the forms. Now he fixed the issues so I didn't escalate it. But I was unhappy. I suspect that installers pay to get warranty coverage and so they don't file the forms.

Also read the resources on this page to know what to watch for as they apply the plaster - Resources -

On the robot vs. pressure cleaner debate - I like a pressure cleaner. I am not going to get into the pros and cons here. On a new pool do the plumbing for the cleaner line and also install an outlet in a location where a robot cleaner can be plugged into and where the robot cleaner can be stored. Technology changes and what is the best today may not be 10 or 20 years from now. Keep your options open.

With that said, I would not get a Kreepy Krauly cleaner. There are better pressure cleaners and that is why folks are so down on them. If you want to get a pressure cleaner get the NEW POLARIS QUATTRO SPORT REDEFINES PRESSURE-SIDE CLEANING | Zodiac Pool Systems, Inc.

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