Serious help needed
- Thread starter richardc
- Start date
Last evening I added aprox. 34 oz of chlorine to the pool to bring the SLAM level to 23.5. That was at about 7:30 PM. I will test again this morning once it is light out, at about 6:15 AM CST. I am hoping that the color of the water begins to lighten up, but an wondering if I have a form of chlorine resistant algae? I vaguely recall years ago being told that my pool was picking up mustard algae, and that required a mustard algaecide? I have an old bottle of the stuff on my pool shelf?
This mornings test:
FC 21
CC 3
I will add chlorine to bring iot back to SLAM level of 23.5
The pool color remains mint green, little change.
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I have been doing some reading, since I have seen little change in the pool color. A few sources indicate that the shock level needs to be 10X the CC level.
I realize that it is early in the SLAM process, but since adding tons of chlorine I have seen little change in the color of the water. I am talking before I started the SLAM procedure.
Here is one reference:
https://www.in.gov/isdh/files/How_To_Shock_The_Pool.pdf
Thank you for all of your help.
FC 21
CC 3
I will add chlorine to bring iot back to SLAM level of 23.5
The pool color remains mint green, little change.
- - - Updated - - -
I have been doing some reading, since I have seen little change in the pool color. A few sources indicate that the shock level needs to be 10X the CC level.
I realize that it is early in the SLAM process, but since adding tons of chlorine I have seen little change in the color of the water. I am talking before I started the SLAM procedure.
Here is one reference:
https://www.in.gov/isdh/files/How_To_Shock_The_Pool.pdf
Thank you for all of your help.
You can find any number of articles that conflict with the TFP method if you want to look for them. You need to decide which path you want to take and stick with it. Basing your shock level upon CC gives no consideration to your CYA level. Does that make any sense based upon what you've learned here? What if your CC only measured .5 or even zero at this point? What would you do?
Well, of course this is the problem for those of us who are saddled with pool problems, and don't have the experience or expertise to seperate the "wheat from the chafe". We only know what we read or what we are told. It is a disconcerting position to be in.
Nevertheless, and responding directly to your point, one wonders about how or why, or for the basis on the SLAM chlorination levels. I asked that very question a while ago, but no one responded to it. So let me re-ask the same question. Assuming a CYA and corresponding shock level as set out in the chart, how is that level determined? Is say a FC shock level of say 12 that corresponds to a CYA of 30 a point wherein algae cannot survive? It would seem that the chart uses a static fixed level of chlorination based upon CYA, wherein, the aforestated reference works off a CC reference point that would fluctuate based on CC in one's pool.
If the chart indicates a FC level corresponding to one's CYA, why not adjust the shock level predicated on one's CYA to the level based on the reference's CC level?
Certainly yes, adjusting one's chlorine to the CYA seems to be most important.
These raise interesting questions, and again, being a novice, and lacking firsthand experience, one wonders. That brings me to that commercial or old TV program...? "Inquiring minds want to know"
Thank you
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More numbers after 2 3/4 this am:
FC 23.5
CC 3
I am attemting to vacuum. It seems like my filter is locking up, causing me to lose prime on my pump. I will vacuum to waste and see what happens, unless there are different instructions. Thank you
Vacuuming to waste: the good news and the bad news: first the bad news: I am expelling a large amount of brown particilized material that is sitting on the bottom of the pool. I assume this is a form of algae that has not been oxidixed. It appears to be the same brown color as always/particles without much in the way of solids. It seems to be capable of being vacuumed and discharged to waste. The good news is that so far I have picked up little if any leaves or other solids. The concentration of the brown material seems to be heavy. One wonders if the shock is having any effect on this material?
I am taking a break with the pump off to refill the pool to acceptable levels. Once completed I will return to vacuuming. Would it make sense to brush the brown material so that it interacts with the chlorine and gets a chance to filter out?
Thank you !
I am taking a break with the pump off to refill the pool to acceptable levels. Once completed I will return to vacuuming. Would it make sense to brush the brown material so that it interacts with the chlorine and gets a chance to filter out?
Thank you !
Your pool has the "muckies"...........stuff that has turned into a mucky mess on the bottom. Good for you for sending it to waste. I would have a hose in the pool adding water all the while you are sending the stuff out of the pool. Fill the pool up as far as you can then vacuum to waste some more.
What I would do is top off your FC once you cannot vacuum any more due to water level and then brush the pool to get the mucky up into the FC to maybe help break it down.
Thanks Jazza! Those were the purrfect links to answer his questions!
Kim
What I would do is top off your FC once you cannot vacuum any more due to water level and then brush the pool to get the mucky up into the FC to maybe help break it down.
Thanks Jazza! Those were the purrfect links to answer his questions!
Kim
Observed waste discharge from vacuuming, and it looks like sand with some black spores on it....mustard algae???
I think what you are seeing is partially decomposed leaves, dirt, and other organic material. Mustard algae grows on the shady sides of the pool and is yellow to yellowish green in color. Even if it were mustard algae, you would continue to slam, and when you had reached all 3 criteria for the end of a slam, you raise the pool to mustard algae levels for 24 hours. We can talk about that more if it appears you do have a mustard algae problem at the end of your slam.
Try taking a photo of the pool at the same location around the same time each day. Over the course of a few days you should be able to see the small changes in clarity and color as you slam. Taking a picture at the steps is a good indicator of progress as the steps become clearer each day when you compare pictures. This is the stage where POP (pool owner patience) kicks in. It will feel like not much is happening and then it seems like suddenly the water is much improved from the day before.
Try taking a photo of the pool at the same location around the same time each day. Over the course of a few days you should be able to see the small changes in clarity and color as you slam. Taking a picture at the steps is a good indicator of progress as the steps become clearer each day when you compare pictures. This is the stage where POP (pool owner patience) kicks in. It will feel like not much is happening and then it seems like suddenly the water is much improved from the day before.
Just a quck check - can you confirm that:
A) you're filtering 24/7
B) that you're backwashing after psi increases 25% or more
C) that you presently have the skimmer valve open wide but the drain valve part way shut to allow upper layer clearing and debris collection?
Re:
The exact percentages, which I posted earlier as 7.5% of cya for regular sanitation and 40% of cya for slam derive from scientific research conducted by founding members of the forum. This information, which was an extension of research from 40 years ago, is now slowly filtering into mfg literature, but not consistently. To adopt TFC methods more or less requires an acceptance of the tenets of the FC/CYA ratio
But you don't have to take our word for it...just comb through the forum for explanations from ChemGeek in particular.
Mustard slam level is 55% of CYA. We recommend staying below that number to avoid fading liners. However, as I intimated in my first post I think, for very old swamp water, dosing between mustard level and slam level may expedite.
If you are not seeing color change of water, I feel there is something not going quite right and would like to see some fresh pictures and maybe have you hold a white piece of cloth in front of a return to determine if the water coming out of return is clear or has sand in it.
We've recently helped someone with a no-progress swamp resolve by determining they had broken laterals in their sand filter. So this may be a good check. It would help us to know if visibility has cleared at all as well.
A) you're filtering 24/7
B) that you're backwashing after psi increases 25% or more
C) that you presently have the skimmer valve open wide but the drain valve part way shut to allow upper layer clearing and debris collection?
Re:
The exact percentages, which I posted earlier as 7.5% of cya for regular sanitation and 40% of cya for slam derive from scientific research conducted by founding members of the forum. This information, which was an extension of research from 40 years ago, is now slowly filtering into mfg literature, but not consistently. To adopt TFC methods more or less requires an acceptance of the tenets of the FC/CYA ratio
But you don't have to take our word for it...just comb through the forum for explanations from ChemGeek in particular.Mustard slam level is 55% of CYA. We recommend staying below that number to avoid fading liners. However, as I intimated in my first post I think, for very old swamp water, dosing between mustard level and slam level may expedite.
If you are not seeing color change of water, I feel there is something not going quite right and would like to see some fresh pictures and maybe have you hold a white piece of cloth in front of a return to determine if the water coming out of return is clear or has sand in it.
We've recently helped someone with a no-progress swamp resolve by determining they had broken laterals in their sand filter. So this may be a good check. It would help us to know if visibility has cleared at all as well.
Just a quck check - can you confirm that:
A) you're filtering 24/7
B) that you're backwashing after psi increases 25% or more
C) that you presently have the skimmer valve open wide but the drain valve part way shut to allow upper layer clearing and debris collection?
Re:
The exact percentages, which I posted earlier as 7.5% of cya for regular sanitation and 40% of cya for slam derive from scientific research conducted by founding members of the forum. This information, which was an extension of research from 40 years ago, is now slowly filtering into mfg literature, but not consistently. To adopt TFC methods more or less requires an acceptance of the tenets of the FC/CYA ratio
Mustard slam level is 55% of CYA. We recommend staying below that number to avoid fading liners. However, as I intimated in my first post I think, for very old swamp water, dosing between mustard level and slam level may expedite.
If you are not seeing color change of water, I feel there is something not going quite right and would like to see some fresh pictures and maybe have you hold a white piece of cloth in front of a return to determine if the water coming out of return is clear or has sand in it.
We've recently helped someone with a no-progress swamp resolve by determining they had broken laterals in their sand filter. So this may be a good check. It would help us to know if visibility has cleared at all as well.
Well I held a kitchen towel held up to the return, and that is now at the bottom of the pool. I was certain to hang on to the next one. No sand but lots of tiny dirt/algae/leave particles that do not appear to being filtered out. That being said the towel had no particles on it but became mildy dirty from the pool return water. I see no change in the pool water color.
I am having trouble uploading pictures to photobucket or flickr. If someone could walk me through the process that would help.
I am quite frustrated and wonder if I should have partially drained the pool, and attempted to start over. Something is not making sense, and I don't have the experience or knowledge.
I don;t understand how I can be dumping all of this chlorine in the pool without much of a dent. However, visually it appears I can see down about 2 feet......
I await your advice, and thank you !
The main drain is partially closed and the skimmers wide open.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/rcatty/IMAG0203_zps7lf4acm2.jpg
I believe this picture is from June 27th.
If you compare this picture to the one above it does appear to show improvement with respect to visibility of the second stair.
Please forgive me on the pictures as I am having a heck of a time uploading and trying to get a date on my pictures.
I believe this picture is from June 27th.
If you compare this picture to the one above it does appear to show improvement with respect to visibility of the second stair.
Please forgive me on the pictures as I am having a heck of a time uploading and trying to get a date on my pictures.
6PM CST FC 31.5
CC 2.5
CYA 35
I vacuumed to waste earlier and found lots of sand like sediment, some with what looked like black spores on the sand like material. Thereafter, I brushed and brushed the floor of the pool. No substances rose to the surface. At 6 PM I decided to rake to determind if any substances would rise, and to see if gook/leaves debris were still there. I raked about 25X thtroughout the entire pool. Nothing was stirred up, except for a few small leaves (less than a handful). If there is algae in the pool it is circulating and not on the floor. The filter is running 24/7.
I did not add any Chlorine as the FC level is fairly high given my lower CYA level, and that the FC level exceeds the 60% level, if indeed I had or have Mustard Algae. I believe it is Mustard Algae based on descriptions I have read: i.e. sand like, brown color, and the fact that years ago my pool guy at that time told me I had mustard algae, and indeed, I found an old bottle of yellow out on my shelf. But who knows!
In sum, the good news is that I think I am "debris free". Now it's the color.....BTW, my pool guy put in a copper based algaecide a few weeks ago. Could that be a factor??
Have a safe and festive 4th !!!
CC 2.5
CYA 35
I vacuumed to waste earlier and found lots of sand like sediment, some with what looked like black spores on the sand like material. Thereafter, I brushed and brushed the floor of the pool. No substances rose to the surface. At 6 PM I decided to rake to determind if any substances would rise, and to see if gook/leaves debris were still there. I raked about 25X thtroughout the entire pool. Nothing was stirred up, except for a few small leaves (less than a handful). If there is algae in the pool it is circulating and not on the floor. The filter is running 24/7.
I did not add any Chlorine as the FC level is fairly high given my lower CYA level, and that the FC level exceeds the 60% level, if indeed I had or have Mustard Algae. I believe it is Mustard Algae based on descriptions I have read: i.e. sand like, brown color, and the fact that years ago my pool guy at that time told me I had mustard algae, and indeed, I found an old bottle of yellow out on my shelf. But who knows!
In sum, the good news is that I think I am "debris free". Now it's the color.....BTW, my pool guy put in a copper based algaecide a few weeks ago. Could that be a factor??
Have a safe and festive 4th !!!
I would not drain 100 percent of it but if you got a trash pump.....hmmmm okay follow me here .....fill up the pool as far as it can go without going behind the liner. Let it settle over night. Put the trash pump in and let it take as much of the muck as it can out.
While the pump is working you deep clean your filter.
While the pump is working you deep clean your filter.
I might be crazy but I think I have 99 percent of the muck/debris removed. I vacuumed and later on I brushed, then raked. Nothing came up with the brush or leaf rake. Now I suppose stuff could settle overnight but I think I got most of it.There are small particles in the water that are not filtering out, but again I brushed the floor and I'm sure that kicked stuff up. What about the copper algaecide that my pool guy used a while back. It caused an immediate color change to what I have now. Could I be seeing copper?