Pro Logic Automation Question - Overlapping timers possible?

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
This site rocks. I learned a ton. My PB bailed on the contract, stole my money, and didn't finish my pool. I'm finishing plumbing, elec, and automation myself. (Plus I have a leak somewhere...)

Anyway, I have a question on this Pro Logic controller. It doesn't seem very flexible, so I had a question on overlapping timers.

I have a 20,000 gallon pool plus 8 foot round spa. I'm using a 3HP Hayward EcoStar as a filter pump (plus 2 more for water features). I was going to run around 65% for about 5 hours a day and at 10% the rest of the day so my UV is always running. I was going to split my 5 hour run into two, 2.5 hour runs. The reason to split my 5 hours is because I have a ton of live oak trees and I want my skimmers to clean leaves out morning and evening.

For example:
8AM - 10:30AM - 65%
10:30AM - 2PM - 10%
2PM - 5:30PM - 65%
5:30PM - 8AM - 10%

If I use all 4 timers, it takes all 4 of my preset speed settings on the ProLogic, and I can't ever have one at 100% for when I want to kick it up manually.

QUESTION:
Can I just set T1 to 10% for 24 hours?
Then set T2 and T3 to 65% for 2.5 hours?
Then I could set my speed 4 to 100% and run it manually when needed?

Will that work? Will the two timers at 65% override the 10% setting? Will that mess up any other settings such as freeze mode, heater extend, manual SPA mode, etc?

Thanks!
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
17,965
Bedford, TX
r,

Welcome to TFP.. A great place to find the answer to all your new pool questions... :shark:

We are a little slow this time a year, but my post should bring yours back to the top of the pile...

Since there are a number of Pro-Logic and EcoStar versions, it would be important to know which specific models you have.

I am not a Hayward "guy", but only having 4 pump speeds does not seem right to me. If you can provide the model numbers we should be able to tell for sure.

Unless you have zero sunlight in Houston, your UV systems is not really ever going to do anything helpful for your sanitization. I like to say they are all "magic" but without the rabbit. :p

Running your pump to run the UV system is not really worth the effort. (I am assuming this is a outdoor pool!!)

Let's see if we can get some more members to chime in...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
Thanks for the welcome and the reply.

Pumps are SP3400VSP
Pump Display Software is r3.11R
Pump Drive Software is r1.21

Pro Logic Gold is
Main Revision 4.46
Display Software is Local-08 r4.00


The Pro Logic controller lets me program 4 "speeds" which then match up with the 4 buttons on the pump.
Then, the timers, just coordinate to the 4 "speeds" it seems.

Thanks for advice on UV. I can run it less. I'm a big hiker/traveller and love UV sticks to sanitize drinking water. Hence, I felt like this must be doing more of the same.

In any case, I'd love to break out my energy intensive cycle into two separate ones so I can balance leaf skimming with power consumption.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
19,456
I would suggest just pick a minimum speed that gives you good skimming and let it run continuously.

Set a higher speed for when the heater needs to run.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
Spa speed is already at 100%, so heather isn't an issue.

Running continuously doesn't address the issue. That's how I set it already. My question was in regards to overlapping timers for energy efficiency and split cleaning time.

Thanks
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
13,517
Pleasanton, CA
Running continuously doesn't address the issue. That's how I set it already. My question was in regards to overlapping timers for energy efficiency and split cleaning time.
What James was suggesting is that you don't really need overlapping timers. There is no need to run at higher speeds. You only really need one speed for general cleaning and circulation. The other higher speeds would only be needed for the heater, solar, water feature, cleaner, etc. So pick the lowest speed where the skimmers still work properly (i.e. water flows over the weir door) and just run at that speed. If the pump isn't needed for skimming, shut it off. No reason to run it if it isn't doing something.

I doubt running the EcoStar at 10% is accomplishing anything at all. 10% is only 345 RPM and the pump loses efficiency at very low speeds as measured by gallons pumped/watt-hr. With most VS pumps, running below 700 RPM (~20%) is not advisable because the energy used stays about the same but the flow rate decreases so there isn't much point to run at such a low speed.

Also, for the ProLogic, you should be able to set start and stop times for each of the timers so they don't have to be overlapping. It is all in the manual.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
What James was suggesting is that you don't really need overlapping timers. There is no need to run at higher speeds. You only really need one speed for general cleaning and circulation. The other higher speeds would only be needed for the heater, solar, water feature, cleaner, etc. So pick the lowest speed where the skimmers still work properly (i.e. water flows over the weir door) and just run at that speed. If the pump isn't needed for skimming, shut it off. No reason to run it if it isn't doing something.

I doubt running the EcoStar at 10% is accomplishing anything at all. 10% is only 345 RPM and the pump loses efficiency at very low speeds as measured by gallons pumped/watt-hr. With most VS pumps, running below 700 RPM (~20%) is not advisable because the energy used stays about the same but the flow rate decreases so there isn't much point to run at such a low speed.

Also, for the ProLogic, you should be able to set start and stop times for each of the timers so they don't have to be overlapping. It is all in the manual.
I appreciate the response, but it does not address my issue.

I understand that only one speed is needed for cleaning. In Pro Logic controllers, you have to "preset" 4 speeds that you want your motor to be able run at. Then, in the timer, you can have one timer per speed. I understand I can just run it for 5, 8, 10 or "whatever" hours straight. I have no issues with that.

The easy method is to set a speed to your cleaning speed and run that for 5 hours straight...I get it.

In the original post I explain that I am trying to split my necessary cleaning into two cycles so I can skim leaves in morning and evening, without wasting unnecessary energy cleaning during middle of the day. To accomplish this, it would require me to set all available timers, which would require me to set all 4 "presets" to either "Cleaning Speed" and "Not cleaning Speed". This would eliminate me having a speed like "100%" to do vacuuming or whatever.

Also, thanks for your advice on the 10%. I'm recording average watts for my particular setup to calculate the most efficient setting between 10 and 25%. I will use that as my non-cleaning setting.

I will also assure you I have read the manual many times, and searched the internet extensively. Neither discusses what I am trying to accomplish. At this point, since the community doesn't seem to know, I will set it up and watch to see how it behaves under different settings. I was just hoping this extensive community would have an answer so I didn't have some unforeseen consequence of trying overlapping timers.

Thanks,
Ry
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
13,517
Pleasanton, CA
No need to get upset. We are just trying to understand your objective in order to help you. This is the first time I have heard anyone wanting to do this. It really isn't necessary to overlap the timers. Just set the start time of one timer at the stop time of the previous timer. There is no need for overlap. What does the overlap buy you?

But the reason, I asked if you read the manual, it tells you what happens when you overlap timers. See page 14:

For a variable speed pump, this setting will be the period of time when the pump will run at the speed
selected for speed1 in the settings menu. If there is an overlap in any of the timeclocks, then the lower
number timeclock/speed has priority.
http://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/PLTPM-PL-P-4OperationOct08&Later.pdf
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
29,926
Laughlin, NV
I attempted to search for "ProLogic Gold" and do not get any hits. ProLogic comes in various forms. So not sure exactly which one you have.

Most automation systems will run the program with the highest RPM scheduled for the pump if overlapping schedules exist. So in your case, if you want to run 24 hours at a low rate, that would be one schedule. Then you would have two schedules at the higher rate (however, normally that is not necessary as long as your overall rate is enough to lower your skimmer weir) then you would have one setting left for your manual setting.

Your manual should show this. I also am a Pentair owner and that is how the EasyTouch automation works.

Good luck.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
No need to get upset. We are just trying to understand your objective in order to help you. This is the first time I have heard anyone wanting to do this. It really isn't necessary to overlap the timers. Just set the start time of one timer at the stop time of the previous timer. There is no need for overlap. What does the overlap buy you?

But the reason, I asked if you read the manual, it tells you what happens when you overlap timers. See page 14:



http://www.hayward-pool.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/PLTPM-PL-P-4OperationOct08&Later.pdf
Thank you! I did't see that line. I will change all my speeds and timers so the lower number timeclocks are cleaning and higher number is "not cleaning". Thank you very much!
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
Issue Solved: Thanks to mas985 for the solution. If others have same issue, here is what I did below. This setup allows the pump to run at a slow speed for a large part of the day, and then a cleaning speed for short period in morning and evening. This is to split my high-energy cycles to allow leaves to be skimmed for day swimming and evening swimming. It also allows you to reserve a speed for vacuuming as well.

VSP speeds 1 and 2 were set to cleaning speed (currently at 60% for new build)
VSP Speed 3 to 100%
VSP speed 4 to 25% (68 watts, 2.5 PSI)

I set T1 to 9-11:30 AM
I set T2 to 3-5:30 AM
I left T3 empty for vacuuming.
I set T4 to 6AM to 11:15 PM

T1 and T2 take priority over 3 and 4, so the overlapping successfully meets goals.

Thanks!
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
13,517
Pleasanton, CA
I know this is a new build but long term, that is probably way more run time than you really need.

If speed 4 does not clean the pool properly and it really should, then why run at that speed at all?

Also, speeds 1 & 2 are very high. Skimmers should work properly at much lower speeds. I have two skimmers and can run at about 40% (equivalent to your 30%) and they still collect debris. Slower mind you than at higher speeds but the net result ends up saving much more in energy costs.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
I was running longer to keep UV running more hours. Is UV really not effective at all?

And thanks for advice on speed. Is it advisable on most days to completely shut off main drain suction and only do 100% suction from skimmers?
 

mas985

TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
May 3, 2007
13,517
Pleasanton, CA
And thanks for advice on speed. Is it advisable on most days to completely shut off main drain suction and only do 100% suction from skimmers?
Not a 100% but 99% would be sufficient. MDs do virtually nothing but you want to have a small amount of water running through them so they stay chlorinated. By running most of the water through the skimmers, you can generally run on even lower speeds. The lowest speed possible for a skimmer is where the water still travels over the weir door without debris collecting at the door.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
Got it. I was about 75% closed. I'll move to 98.5% closed and reduce speed and run time. Thanks again for the money saving advice!

Now I'm off to figure out how to get my control wires hooked up right on my single SP32900VSP since my PB left it stand alone...
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
29,926
Laughlin, NV
As I see no SWCG in your signature I assume you are adding liquid chlorine as needed.

Do you have a test kit? Adding that to and how you chlorinate your water is great to have in the signature.

Take care.
 

rsquaredatx

Member
Jan 23, 2018
13
Austin, TX
I have that Rainbow 320 in-line feeder in my signature. I just bought a test kit today. I'm going to test and then throw in tablets/adjust dial based on results. Hoping to do that this afternoon. Had a friend that runs a large pool maintenance business keeping my PH and chlorine right until now with liquids. He did drop 2 tablets in my 320 about 10 days ago. I'm new to all this, so I assume it will just be a learning curve next couple months.