Pool Rebuild Disaster?

arlomiller

Member
May 19, 2019
14
Renton, WA
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
I hired a local company, (Edit by Jim R.) from Shoreline WA to replaster, retile, and redo the coping around my in ground pool and hot tub. I got their name from a couple of other local pool companies.

They started back around January 1st. Progress has been painfully slow, they just finished grouting the coping yesterday. They come and work for 2-3 days, then I won't see them for weeks.

Meanwhile, my cement contractor says that this is the worst pool installer that he's ever seen. They chipped out the old plaster and repaired several cracks in the pool, by chipping them out about 6 inches in both directions and affixing a thick steel mesh. It was almost 3 months before they covered that mesh with mortar and it looks like there is rust there now.

The pool had a set of side entrance steps that we had blocked off to make the pool a perfect rectangle so that we can have a motorized cover. When they made the wall to block off the steps, they chipped out to attach rebar. Then, instead of using shotcrete, they basically hand formed the wall with cement. As in, they used some kind of thick cement mix that they mixed onsite in small batches, and hand formed the wall by trowel. They would lay down about 8 inches of it, let that set overnight and then add another 8 inches or so each day until they reached the top.

They used the same technique to build these steps. On some of them I'm now seeing rust coming through the concrete from the rebar below.

They built the pool cover box out of square and didn't follow the specs, so it wasn't deep enough, so they chipped and ground it out to make it the right size.

They capped old returns and put in 3 new ones. The mortar around the new returns is showing cracks just 2-3 weeks after it was placed.

There are a variety of other issues that I can list.

However, we're now at the point where I'm going to tell them to stop working and I'm going to have a different builder come in to assess their work, probably take over the job, and most importantly try to tell me if they've caused significant damage (i'm mostly thinking about the crack repair).

It is almost May and I can't imagine there being a scenario where this pool can be re-plastered and still used this summer.

Which brings me to ask a question, to which i'm sure the answer is no, is there any way that I could still use my unplastered pool this summer and resume this project in the fall?

IMG_1701.jpeg
 
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I would strongly consider discussing with an attorney before you do anything.
If you tell the first group to stop, hire another, and start work... well, it can get really messy.

You hopefully have a contract with the first company. Contract law is well-established, and your state and contractor boards can help. But absolutely don't rush trying to save the swimming season, because you risk getting to pay twice.
 
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I would strongly consider discussing with an attorney before you do anything.
If you tell the first group to stop, hire another, and start work... well, it can get really messy.

You hopefully have a contract with the first company. Contract law is well-established, and your state and contractor boards can help. But absolutely don't rush trying to save the swimming season, because you risk getting to pay twice.
already in progress. Once I have received an outside opinion on the work quality, i'll be able to make much better decisions. I've already assumed that I'll be turning it over to my attorney. My kids, though, would really really like to know if there is still any chance of using our pool this summer.
 
So sorry you're going through this. Can't help with the problem other than to say folks here give great advice.

Definitely consider it a teachable moment for the kids: the virtue of competence and the misery its lack can cause. They may remember this "lost summer of '23" lesson when lots of others have faded, then become truly competent in their chosen paths because of it. A silver lining...

Otoh, maybe they'll grow up to be lawyers after observing who always makes a buck even when everyone else loses... :p
 
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Still waiting to get our 2nd opinion from another contractor.

Meanwhile, I've wondered - would it possible to line the pool with pond liner and fill it? Would take a bit to seal things up around the drains and returns, and would be pretty ugly, but it might be the best/only way for us to be able to use our pool this summer.
 
You’d be better off just buying an Intex pool and setting that up for the summer. Then sell it at the ends of the season. You’d be amazed at how much of the original purchase price you’ll get back as there are always people looking for cheap pop-up pools.
 
You’d be better off just buying an Intex pool and setting that up for the summer. Then sell it at the ends of the season. You’d be amazed at how much of the original purchase price you’ll get back as there are always people looking for cheap pop-up pools.
I hear you, problem is that i'm on a mountain, so the only large flat area I have is occupied by my inground pool.
 
Well, I went ahead and filled the pool up about 3 weeks ago. My pool deck guy fixed the diarrhea steps (before and after pictures below). They look fantastic now. We had to demo the cover box. 3 attempts at repair and 2 months time and the pool builder was still unable to give me a box that met the specifications for the pool cover. Pool deck guy demolished the box, made proper forms, and in 2 days made a cover box that completely matches the specs and looks dramatically better. He also contacted another pool builder friend who showed him how to install water stops on the new plumbing (the pool builder doesn't know what these are). Did a bunch of other things to clean things up. And then, I filled it up! So far, so good! We installed water stops on the new penetrations that they installed so that those areas don't leak. I reconnected all of my plumbing. We don't have lights, but who cares. Girls have swam in it a bunch of times already.

Its been holding water just fine. Notably, they did NOT do a full chipout. There really aren't that many areas of bare gunnite or concrete. 90% or more of the surface still has some amount of plaster on it. The majority of it is pretty much full thickness.

I've been reading everything I can find about concrete pools. Every reference I've found talks about finishing concrete with paint, or vinyl, or plaster. But, I haven't found much out there about what happens to a bare concrete pool. Granted, mine isn't bare concrete. I just can't help but wonder why you can't just have a cement pool? When I was kid, all the houses in my neighborhood were on septic, but we did not have wells. Everyone had a large cistern and we had water delivered every month (or something like that). Our cistern was a giant fiberglass tank, but I know that several of the neighbors had giant concrete tanks, usually underneath their garage. We're they lined with anything in particular? I have no idea. But, I know that concrete can be made to hold water.

More importantly, what I'm really trying to find out is whether doing this for a season is going to hurt anything. I am running a salt water pool and chlorinator. I also have a Rolochem system to manage pH and Chlorine, but I haven't installed it yet. I also have a sacrificial anode that I'll be installing this weekend. Overall, I think I tend to be pretty anal about my chemistry. So far, with opening the pool in this condition it seems like it was a lot easier to establish my alkanine buffer. However, the last time I filled the pool was 3-4 years ago and I've also learned a LOT since then (mostly reading this forum) so its also very likely that i'm better at it now. I do feel like the pH drifts higher more quickly, which I think makes sense - the areas of exposed concrete are donating alkalinity. Still, back to the question of whether i'm hurting anything right now? Pool holds water. I can get it balanced and have been able to keep it that way. I'm probably pulling alkalinity out of the areas of new concrete as well as the small areas of old concrete that are no longer covered in plaster. But, does this compromise the concrete? Will 4 months of this exposure be significant?

I'm still in limbo with the pool builder. Got a 2nd opinion, they pretty strongly felt that the construction methods used were at least 20 years out of date and that my pool builder is a hack at best. They said that the patches the builder installed were completely unnecessary and that proper prep of the surface was all that was necessary to prevent the superficial cracks from showing through to the new plaster. They also said that the patches need to be removed because they will quickly fail. They also strongly recommended that I halt any further work since most of the work they had done so far would need to be redone. The list of problems found went on and on and on, and the impression I was left with is that the workmanship was very amateur at best, but some things were egregious. We sent a stop work order and are now letting the attorneys sort it out.

The 2nd opinion was right about the patches, many of them are giving way, even before filling the pool. the builder had chipped out the plaster and some concrete, then fastened some kind of coarse steel mesh to the surface using small concrete anchors and then tried to hand trowel concrete over and through that mesh. This left huge air gaps behind the mesh and concrete. The mesh is also corroding pretty quickly, even before I filled the pool there was rust on the mesh.

Diarrhea Steps.jpgAwesome Steps.jpegRusted Patch Repairs.jpegGaps behind patches.jpegAnother Rusted Patch.jpeg
 
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You're really brave. If I was legal counsel for the hack pool builder, you just made my life a lot easier.
Is your legal counsel aware you're currently using the pool unfinished?

Curious how much of the total contract did you pay to original pool builder?
 
lawyer is totally aware. saw no problem with it. it’s still my pool. just needed to photograph everything possible before filling.

paid 1/2 upfront. $46,000. their work isn’t remotely close to 50% complete right now.

moreover, sounds like it is going to be about $150k to have someone else repair the damage they caused and finish the job.
 
New steps look really well done.

Glad the kids get to swim. Funny how us adults can obsess over tiny variations in finish, kids are just like 'is it full of water yet?'.

Good luck with the rest of this battle, keep us posted. I have a morbid fascination with work like this.
 
New steps look really well done.

Glad the kids get to swim. Funny how us adults can obsess over tiny variations in finish, kids are just like 'is it full of water yet?'.

Good luck with the rest of this battle, keep us posted. I have a morbid fascination with work like this.
no kidding. when i look at it now, i do think waterline tile would look cool, but it really makes me question plaster. the previous plaster was almost the color of gunnite anyway. and we planned to change it to something a little bluer, but still pretty dark. why cover the gunnite with such a finicky, laborious, and expensive surface like plaster?
 
The issue with water in there now is that long term water saturated gunite can start to weaken and get crumbly. I’ve got a spot in my gunite that has been cracked for a while and allowing water to penetrate. Once I removed the plaster, it was almost like sand consistency that I had to dig out and patch. I for sure wouldn’t leave water in it any longer than necessary.

I’ve been having trouble finding someone to take on the plaster work and I suspect that once they see a homeowner has been messing with it, they don’t want to deal with it. Hopefully you can find someone to finish it.
 
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There are numerous reasons why bare concrete isn’t used as a finished pool. The main reason being that concrete is porous and will not hold water. Granted, there is a lot of water in the pool and the saturation rate is not severely high so you may not lose water in a noticeably short amount of time, but you will lose water at a constant rate, at least until the concrete and the surrounding soil becomes fully saturated. Also, the rebar in the permanently saturated concrete will begin to rust and slowly disintegrate. Other reasons include the fact that permanently saturated concrete will lose a significant portion of its’ strength and this can cause major cracks and even crumbling and general weakening of the structure. Other issues include the fact that it will be very difficult to balance (and more difficult to keep balanced) the pool water. There are many other reasons I can not think of off the top of my head. At the very least the concrete needs to be sealed with some sort of epoxy sealant.
 
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Its not a different material. Its all based portland cement and aggregate.
 

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