Pool in limbo-new liner, water delivered, then....nothing

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Ok, I have no idea how to get the laterals out. I thought the two little screws on the side of the elbow would allow me to slide it out of the pipe that goes out to the returns but it’s not budging. I didn’t want to force it in case that’s wrong and there’s a seal there. Since it’s a side mount, I’m having trouble locating videos of how to take this apart.
It’s freezing outside now, and my hands are cold, so I’m calling it quits for tonight. Darkness is on its way too.
I guess emptying it and cleaning out the inside is enough for one day.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,017
Tallahassee, FL
That kitty is like one we used to have. Her name was Gabby (guess why LOL). This pic is one another MOD found for me............my BLING KAT! LOL Ragdolls are a very special breeed for sure! I also have a Maine Coon who is just as "special". She cannot get enough attention. All she wants is to be held. I love when it is cooler so I can wear a small jacket and zip her up in it to carry her around. She is in heaven when I do this!
 
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EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Morning TFP community! I am off to the pool supply store today (hopefully with my laterals for an expert opinion) to get sand, and see about a cover. The owner told me when I was there that he does a free closing with the purchase of a cover, and installs the cover. I think I’m gonna go for it. He seemed sympathetic to our situation, and keen to help, but not in a greedy oh-boy-here-comes-a-sucker kind of way.
The PB didn’t call or show on Saturday, or Sunday, and frankly I have lost faith in him that he’ll get us a cover before 2021.
It’s been really cold here at night so we need to do something soon about getting water out of the lines.

No one has commented on the condition of our pump, after all Ive posted about my “diagnostics”. Is it broken? Why is water leaking out of it so rapidly? (Or, at all?) If you need more info or want me to try something else lmk. My teenager doesn’t have school today so I can send him out with instructions to do more tests. (I showed him everything I know yesterday.)

I will discuss the pump issues when I’m at the pool store and get some recommendations for a new pump, which is what I suspect is the inevitable answer. Then I’ll run them by you all so I can make a much more informed decision than I’d make on my own.
 

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Your poor hands and arms.............they have worked hard and been in some NASTY stuff! Go soak them in a nice, hot bath!

I don't know if this will help but I found your filter manual: https://hayward-pool-assets.com/assets/documents/pools/pdf/manuals/Manual136.pdf
Thanks Kim! I already have the manual saved as a bookmark, lol. I’m one of those nerds that saves ALL the manuals, and has lists of model #s and measurements saved in her phone. Nerd alert!! When we moved out of our old house in July, the new owners walked into the kitchen to find a giant stack of manualson the island (even some I didn’t get from previous owners but located online and printed out) along with every key to every door (it was an old house w/skeleton keys) and a map of where the spring bulbs/out of season perennials were located in the yard. A little OCD about that stuff I’d say.

I digress...From looking at the filter manual, and from another post I found here on TFP, I know what I have to do now to get the laterals out. I’m just waiting for it to warm up a bit. I have a bad wrist, and it hurts worse than ever when I try to use it when its cold outside. It also renders my hand useless. Sucks to get old. I will probably need a bionic arm by the time I turn 40.

TTFN!

*I may or may not have carefully removed the page in the dishwasher manual about how to turn off the loud, obnoxious “Samsung song” it plays at the end of a cycle, after I reset it back to factory default settings because the buyers of our old house made our lives living ****. They were rude, selfish, inconsiderate, and unreasonable from the time we entered a PSA until and on the day of our closing, which they delayed, forcing us to have to rent our new house ($$$$$) for a week to avoid being homeless. Petty? Maybe. But it made me grin to think of all the trouble they’d have figuring out how to turn it off, in return for me having to figure out how we’d pay for our new house without the funds from the old one bc they forgot to bring a check to the closing. 🤨
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,017
Tallahassee, FL
A person after my own heart! We have folders for all of these important papers and such as well! We also left the ones at the old house along with the keys labeled for what they went to ALONG with notes about how you HAVE to drip this one outside faucet as it liked to freeze up.

Sucks to get old. I will probably need a bionic arm by the time I turn 40.
You are not old yet!!! LOL 40 was a while ago for me! It only gets *better* as you age :roll:

*I may or may not have carefully removed the page in the dishwasher manual about how to turn off the loud, obnoxious “Samsung song” it plays at the end of a cycle, after I reset it back to factory default settings because the buyers of our old house made our lives living ****. They were rude, selfish, inconsiderate, and unreasonable from the time we entered a PSA until and on the day of our closing, which they delayed, forcing us to have to rent our new house ($$$$$) for a week to avoid being homeless. Petty? Maybe. But it made me grin to think of all the trouble they’d have figuring out how to turn it off, in return for me having to figure out how we’d pay for our new house without the funds from the old one bc they forgot to bring a check to the closing. 🤨
WHAT???? UNREAL!!!! gurrrrrrrrrrrr and hehe you and I both know it is driving them nuts each and every time it "sings"! Well done!

Pump-it does need to be replaced with all that is going on with it. The evidence of past tries at fixing it says it needs to be replaced :( Get at least a 2 speed pump. Do NOT get a single speed pump. There are Veri Speed pumps but I don't think you need one of those since you don't have a lot of extra stuff like waterfalls or scuppers or such. Saying that you might be able to get a rebate from your power company if you do get a VS pump. Worth looking into.
 

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Well, it’s a good thing I never got the pump running after all. You know, if I’m going to be a bright side kind of person....

I had the local pool company (that I got my chlorine from) out at my house today to close the pool. They also measured for a mesh safety cover. While they were blowing out the lines, they noticed the liner bulging out in the deep end, about 3 feet from another return. As it turns out, the “return” was actually another Polaris port, and the return was actually covered by both the liner AND the foam.

This pool co and the employees know my PB, and they said initially that he does good work, and they work with him by providing water deliveries, parts, chemicals, etc. They didn’t want to “step on his toes” by taking me on as a client until he stood us up the last time. Today, when the guys discovered the concealed return, they seemed disgusted, surprised, and a little concerned. My husband, on the other hand is MAD.

They wanted to walk away, I could tell, and have me call the PB to fix his mistake (there was risk they’d tear my liner, since it was cold today.) However, I think they knew that he’d leave me hanging. They didn’t come out and say so, but they sort of insinuated that this was a “rookie” mistake, and one that had the potential to be really bad. I can understand their reluctance (you break it you buy it.) I was really grateful for their excellent customer service and professionalism (they could have smack-talked but they didn’t.)

The guys performed what appeared to me to be pool “surgery.” They used a heat gun CAREFULLY to warm up the vinyl to make it more pliable, then gently peeled the liner back, lined it with cardboard to protect it while cutting the foam, then carefully cut out the return, inserted a gasket (I think?), put the liner back, cut out the return, and put a new frame around it. They checked it for leaks, and then sealed it up like the others.

The guys warned me that the PB may have misidentified which port was a return vs Polaris when he (the PB) pressure tested the lines, and not tested the return. He said he thought it seemed ok. He said if all the others were ok, it wasn’t likely that one wasn’t also. He told me not to worry about it or the small amount of water that got between the poly and the foam bc it would just seep through the vermiculite. He said to just be thankful and relieved they found it, and that I had a busted pump. 🙃

So, now I have a “closed” (yet still cover less) pool and winterized lines, and a leftover Polaris port I can use in the future if I choose, but still no pump, no filter, no patio, and no transformer for my pool lights (PB has yet to get that to me).

Oh, and I learned why the two ports on my stairs are different than my returns. Because they *aren’t* returns after all...they are some kind of “spa-like” feature that you can add air to by opening a valve at the top of the steps to create pressure and simulate the jets in a jacuzzi. I just need to get the special attachments that go into the ports. Excellent!

And! When they blew out the lines we found my slide supply buried in the soon to be patio. We dug it out, they winterized it for me, and I can now have my patio poured around it.

The two sets of random pipes coming out of the ground...still no idea. Lol. We have all winter to think about it I guess.
 

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
:shock: I got nothing....................Just glad you found these guys that stepped up and helped you out.
I’m VERY grateful for these guys. They were very impressed by my TF-100 test kit, btw. It def earned me some “street cred” lol. They know I’m not a complete ignoramus.

Kim, in one of your posts above you said not to get a single speed pump...can you please elaborate, bc I just told the pool co yesterday to give me just that.

I’ll tell you my reasons and I’ll hear you out. They haven’t installed it yet, so I can change my mind but I’d like to have a better understanding...

reason #1: COST. After a thorough inspection, this new pool company found bad valves, bad seals, a crack in our filter tank AND the laterals...so, we have to replace everything above ground. It’s expensive. *sigh* We’ve dumped about 12k into the pool repair already, plus another 12k on the patio, and about 9k on essentials in our house to make it livable. We need a roof (next year) a furnace (now, but we’re waiting) a whole house dehumidifier (now), 9 new windows (yesterday), a portion of our deck replaced...OMG, and the cover!!! I’m breaking a sweat just thinking of it all. We’ve started running out of the money we set aside for this house and have to prioritize.

I realize after all this spending, the difference between a DS pump and a SS pump is “only” $400 and seems inconsequential. However, $400 buys us all the coal we need to heat our house w/our coal stove for the winter since our furnace is about to blow up and flood our basement. You feelin me? We can always purchase a VS pump in a year or two when we’ve tackled some of these more important projects, and then keep the SS for back up.

Reason #2: Simplicity. The single speed pumps are just mechanical. In relation to reason #1, I can work (or learn pretty quickly/easily) to repair a pump on my own, get my uncle to do it for me in exchange for baked goods, or pay a small amount to a repair shop if it breaks. I used to do ALL the repairs on my ‘85 Regal bc it was alllll mechanical stuff and was so easy to troubleshoot and fix. My 2013 Golf TDI? Scary. Repair shop. The VS and DS pumps, from what I’ve been told, have a chip (or whatever) and that complicates repairs. I’d have to always pay for repair. Once the pool is in use, I’m not gonna be able to leave it for days w/o a pump while I attend YouTube University to work on my pump.

BTW-I did check out INYOpools.com to compare prices between the pool co quote and online price and the difference was within reason considering shipping and the warranty the pool co offeron their installations. I did ask if they will install equipment supplied by homeowner and the answer is No. Not even if I waive the warranty.

Considering I need so much work done out there (not just a pump install, or putting in the laterals) I am not confident I can tackle all that before it snows (forecasted for tomorrow, actually😬) or, at all given my complete ignorance to pool plumbing/mechanicals.

I feel like I sound like one of my coworkers that I can’t stand because when you tell her something she ALWAYS says “I know but” and then continues to do things wrong. So to clarify, I’m not disregarding the advice here, I just need a better understanding of it. I promise I’m listening. (Also, I need to be able to explain to my husband, who needs a LOT more convincing to spend extra $$, yaknowwhatimean?)

One last thing-since I discovered I have those jet-thingies on my stairs, is that another reason to get the DS or VS pump?
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,017
Tallahassee, FL
Single speed pump VS 2 speed pump- I would not worry about a VS pump right now.

The difference is down the road...........the single speed will cost you more in electric. How much more I really can't say as I have not really studied it too close. I almost always ran my pump on low.

Get a pump you can afford now and still stay warm this winter! Take in account YOUR power costs. Some areas have tiers for the cost of the electric. Some of the go by time of day.

Do what is right for you. You asked and listened and are making an informed choice! THAT is what TFP is all about.......we give you info with facts and let you decide what fits your life and wallet! :hug:

Kim:kim:
 

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Howdy! It’s been a while since I posted. It snowed here last week so I haven’t been thinking “pool.” It’s gonna be warm for a stretch now tho so I’m hoping the pool co will be out here to install my new pump and filter, and maybe my patio can get poured.

which leads me to the remaining loose end/mystery...

The “mystery” pipes. I posted pics of them earlier in the thread. Someone suggested maybe they were for some kind of deck lighting, but I’ve been doing some digging (on the internet, and here) and am wondering if they are for deck JETS? Maybe one of them (since they are configured differently)? Anyway for me to check?

I’d like to know what they are so I can properly set them up in the concrete. Don’t they require some kind of canister or something to be set into the patio so they are flush? And, won’t I need to make sure they are hooked up at the pump?

Here’s my ignorance showing again...I have no idea if I’m phrasing these questions correctly (or if I’m even on the right planet, lol). Forgive me folks. I haven’t had my coffee yet. :coffee:o_O
 

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Can you reshare some pics to remind us what ti looks like.
Sure thing. I took some fresh ones earlier today.

The clusters of pipes are about 6-8 ft away from the edge of the pool. One is almost directly behind where the diving board was and the other behind where I believe a slide was located.

The pair with black caps say “UL listed” on them and the white pipes all say “Lasko” on their caps.A5D6B8BF-5A7C-4983-A052-C6FDC41E6B3D.jpeg
E44AFDB0-95E0-4016-BC05-1141265D8C76.jpeg
4637A65B-F61F-4290-B6AB-1C05DED42898.jpeg
CB64B40F-B70D-4AC9-804C-21F5A4FCDD3A.jpeg
The pool co owner asked me if we have or had lights in the pool, and I said no. We def didn’t. We have them now because we paid to have two fitted into our old vacuum ports. She thought the two UL listed ones might be for a “box” for lights in the pool.

I await the wisdom which shall poureth in!

~Jax
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
2,926
Morris Cnty NJ
The 2 grey pipes next to eachother are electrical conduit amd likely for a UL listed pool light junction box. All the rest of the piping would need to be traced using air to know what goes where and what's tied together.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,017
Tallahassee, FL
So Jimmy they would take the tops off and find a way to blow some good strong air into them while someone watches for where the bubbles come out? That might be fun!
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
2,926
Morris Cnty NJ
Yup schrader valve plugs and trace the lines out. Can dump some rv antifreeze in to get a pink spurt out to make it easier to spot. Can use food dye too if working solo
 

EzriJax

Bronze Supporter
Oct 10, 2020
36
Northern RI
Well I think I’ve reached the end of my journey with this pool restoration/renovation for the season...or just about. Our cover will be in next week. It’s been winterized, and now that the patio is done I’ll clean it out one more time so it’s not ultra swampy in the spring.

The concrete contractor finished the patio this week and it looks awesome!! We had him go around all the mystery pipes until we have more time and better weather to experiment and investigate.

We have a new filter, new pump, some new plumbing, valves and seals have all been checked. All we have to do now is wait for spring.

Here are some pics of the final result:
B30B6D55-27AF-4285-B10A-735EE409DC46.jpeg
7D255EB1-15F2-4CCE-B05D-DE93E3D46726.jpeg
And for contrast, let’s have a flashback to how this looked when we began:
8861EC61-F3E8-4121-ACDB-27A22CB57E4F.jpg
I’m sure I’ll be back in the spring/summer when I have to start maintaining water chemistry, taking the filter and pump on its maiden voyage, and vacuuming a pool for the first time. And then, if I survive all that I’ll be looking for advice on restoring our antique Aquaslide N Dive Queen.

Thanks everybody!

(When and if I do ever figure out what the pipes are for I’ll post it here I guess, for other people’s benefit)