Pool heater leaking

[Richard2020]

Presumably home warranty diagnosis is blaming salt system; you will notice the green tent on the heat ex-changer. That's a sure sign of chemical damage. . Warranty is denying replacement due to non-coverage attributed to secondary damage.

The pool heater is Hayward pool heater is 4 years old. Pool chemistry has been maintained appropriately. Maintenance records are available. See photo of my beautiful pool. I live in the Houston area; extreme weather, high humidity and very hot summer months. In my opinion this is just due to the weather and normal wear and tear. Finding outdoor, green mildew, mold and corrosion is usual (see for example photo of outdoor spigots). The presence of oxygen from air in combination with moisture is the culprit of corrosion, any metallic surface is prone to corrode, copper, chromium, any other alloys, etc. I would not jump into the conclusion that salt cause this type of damage.

Appreciate any thoughts regarding this matter? Normal wear and tear and weather condition vs. salt damaging the heater

 

[Poolbreh]

If salt systems did this kind of damage, they wouldn’t sell them. I would ask for any qualified literature that backs up their claims. It could be a bad thermal regulator that has increased condensation. What’s wrong with the heater that warrants a replacement? You said leak, but where?

 

[generessler]

Trust the experts. I'm not one. But blaming the salt system is probably baloney. Does the water have more than 5000 ppm salt? That's the max recommended in the heater manual. I'm thinking not. The cell turns off with the pump (at least it should), and the cell is after the heater. So the heater sees SWG output only if there's reverse flow after shutdown. I see a VSP. Are you running a 24/7 schedule? If so, that reverse flow can't happen. Even if you run a part-day schedule, chances of enough reverse flow to cover what looks like 4 feet of pipe from the cell back to the heater are small. Even if something reaches the heater, the corrosive effect is tiny. Chlorine concentration in the cell is at most 10 ppm more than the pool.

How about bonding? If the heater isn't properly bonded to the pool water, electrolysis will eat the exchanger copper. Proper bonding is the job of the installer.

 

[Poolbreh]

I think I brought electrolysis and impact on heaters in the past without the clause of bonding or no bonding with @JoyfulNoise. I believe he shot that down and impact would be irrelevant. The heater should be bonded.

 

[Richard2020]

Trust the experts. I'm not one. But blaming the salt system is probably baloney. Does the water have more than 5000 ppm salt? That's the max recommended in the heater manual. I'm thinking not. The cell turns off with the pump (at least it should), and the cell is after the heater. So the heater sees SWG output only if there's reverse flow after shutdown. I see a VSP. Are you running a 24/7 schedule? If so, that reverse flow can't happen. Even if you run a part-day schedule, chances of enough reverse flow to cover what looks like 4 feet of pipe from the cell back to the heater are small. Even if something reaches the heater, the corrosive effect is tiny. Chlorine concentration in the cell is at most 10 ppm more than the pool.

How about bonding? If the heater isn't properly bonded to the pool water, electrolysis will eat the exchanger copper. Proper bonding is the job of the installer.

Here is the narrative from the assigned vendor: You have a salt water pool and there should be a non corrosive check valve between the salt cell and the heater. One of the pictures shows you don't have one. A non corrosive stops the chemicals from back flowing into the heater when the system shuts off. Without this non corrosive check valve the warranty on the heater is not any good. Warranty only covers normal wear and tear. They have these pictures so they can see the damage to the heat ex-changer caused by chemical damage.

 

[Richard2020]

If salt systems did this kind of damage, they wouldn’t sell them. I would ask for any qualified literature that backs up their claims. It could be a bad thermal regulator that has increased condensation. What’s wrong with the heater that warrants a replacement? You said leak, but where?

Pool heater leaking from the bottom, drops, probably losing 1 gallon of water when circulating water with or without the heater functioning. I've added pictures of evidence of corrosion outdoors due to normal wear and tear as well as my 5 year old journal which is very detailed

 

[mknauss]

What corrosive fluid backflows from a SWCG? Answer, none.

 

[generessler]

Here is the narrative from the assigned vendor: You have a salt water pool and there should be a non corrosive check valve between the salt cell and the heater. One of the pictures shows you don't have one. A non corrosive stops the chemicals from back flowing into the heater when the system shuts off. Without this non corrosive check valve the warranty on the heater is not any good. Warranty only covers normal wear and tear. They have these pictures so they can see the damage to the heat ex-changer caused by chemical damage.

TFP threads have debated the check valve thing. They're certainly necessary for tab and acid feeders. The consensus here is that for the SWG - due to the low concentration of chlorine - they're okay but not needed.

But yeah... Hayward probably owns you for warranty purposes. Looks like the manual clearly requires the check valve - if you count a SWCG as a "automatic chlorinator." If you run a 24-hour pump schedule, I'd argue it anyway. That's equivalent to a check valve: backflow is impossible.

 

[Richard2020]

Thanks; it all now makes sense since the salt chlorinator system is located after the pool heater. I have a second vendor tomorrow to provide a second opinion. Any additional recommendations... appreciate it as well other forum members!

 

[mknauss]

Did you maintain the pool water chemistry or did a pool service? For this to occur, low pH is typically the culprit. Have chemicals been added directly to the skimmer? Tablets in the skimmer?

 

[ajw22]

Here is the narrative from the assigned vendor: You have a salt water pool and there should be a non corrosive check valve between the salt cell and the heater. One of the pictures shows you don't have one. A non corrosive stops the chemicals from back flowing into the heater when the system shuts off. Without this non corrosive check valve the warranty on the heater is not any good. Warranty only covers normal wear and tear. They have these pictures so they can see the damage to the heat ex-changer caused by chemical damage.

The fact is that a leaking heat exchanger almost always comes from chemical corrosive damage of the heat exchanger. The salt in the pool or the chlorine produced by the SWG cell is not at fault.

Heat exchangers are damaged by acidic pool water or high flow rates that erode the copper.

Heaters tend to build up a thin layer of calcium carbonate on their internal surfaces over time. This thin layer acts as a barrier to physical metal erosion (from high flow rates of water) and chemical attack (from accidental pH drop). However, this film is not indestructible and it can come and go over time depending on CH and pH levels. Low CH inhibits this film formation and leaves the internal metal surfaces more exposed to pool water. And acidic water can strip the protective calcium scale layer away.

You say pool chemistry has been maintained appropriately and maintenance records are available. Care to share actual data? As well as the chemicals that have been put in the pool over the 4 year life of the heater?

I wish you a good fight but the colors on the heat exchanger show it was damaged by some chemicals and not normal Texas wear and tear.

 

[Richard2020]

I do maintain the pool chemistry. Testing both pH and chlorine levels on a weekly basis. With the salt system, the pH of the pool is normally drifting to the basic side pH > 8; my pool is 20k gallons of water; normally add about 64 oz of muriatic acid, in portions around the pool; that bring the pH in 7.6-7.8 range. Regarding chemicals, i add a pool floating dispenser that can hold up to 4 tablets of CYA, Cyanuric acid (ppm) levels around 60 ppm. Because of pollen and the forest, i do have to replace the DE from the filter almost every 2 weeks (backflush). Water hardness is about 300 ppm. Alkalinity within the recommended parameters. The pool salt setting is adjusted as needed to keep the available chlorine in the 1-4 ppm range for disinfection purposes. I added a few additional pictures from the first vendor for their diagnosis.

 

[mknauss]

What test kit do you use?

 

[Richard2020]

If salt systems did this kind of damage, they wouldn’t sell them. I would ask for any qualified literature that backs up their claims. It could be a bad thermal regulator that has increased condensation. What’s wrong with the heater that warrants a replacement? You said leak, but where?

Pool heater leaking from the bottom, drops, probably losing 1 gallon of water when circulating water with or without the heater functioning.

What corrosive fluid backflows from a SWCG? Answer, none.

 

[Richard2020]

Second company inspected the pool and concluded that no internal corrosion inside the heat exchanger; thickness confirmed; internal leak not readily found;