Pool greenhorn needs guidance

[clarkboy]

Greetings everyone,

My wife and I are looking to have a pool built at our northern Virginia home. We've settled on getting a rectangular gunite pool 18x36. We are in the preliminary phases of collecting estimates from pool builders. Boy, is this a very overwhelming process. My head is swimming with the sheer number of facets to consider and discuss with a builder upfront before signing a contract. I've read enough on the TFP forums to know that everything needs to be in writing to ensure we get what we ask for without any surprises.

Friday, we had our first builder out for a site survey. We walked the yard and discussed the vision we have for our pool. We received an initial estimate I would like to share with the community to see what you think. All thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Pool package
• 18' x 36' 648FT 2 Rectangle swimming pool
• Pool Lay Out, County Building & Electrical Permits
• Electrical permit and hook up with up to 80 amps.
• Crushed Stone base with 3 relied plugs for hydrostatic control
• Commercial steel reinforcing & Bonding
• Transferable Lifetime structure—Above and below the water line warranty
• 2" schedule 40 rigid PVC Plumbing with 2.5" rigid SUCTION individual valves
• Larger size step entry • Pool depth from 3.5’-6.5'
• 3 Floor returns for maximum water flow
• 2 Color Animated LED pool lights
• 2 Deluxe Skimmer
• 2 Safety Anti-Entrapment Main Drains
• Jandy Fusion with Chlorine erosion feeder
• Jandy JXI 400,000 BTU propane heater
• Jandy RS-PS8 smart phone automation system
• (2) 6' deep end swim-out benches with corner step
• 8'x4' poured concrete equipment pad**
• 1.85HP VSP Jandy Flo-pro pool pump
• Dev 60 D.E. filter with multiport valve
• PB-460 .75 hp Cleaner pump
• Polaris 280 in pool cleaning robot
• 12 X 24 INCH travertine coping stone (silver upcharge)
• 6" band of Frost-proof ceramic Tile
• Diamond Brite brand plaster interior finish (Not Pebble Finish)
• Initial Start-up instruction lesson
• Pool Maintenance equipment (Pole, Brush, Skim Net & Test Strips)
• Weather damage protection while under construction o *Maximum run for electricity from House electrical panel to Pool equipment 100' 80 amps o **Maximum distance from pool equipment to pool no more than 20 feet from pool

Initial Options
1) Autocover- $16,500.00
2) 6’ Diving board installed- $4,800.00
3) Add 2' depth to deep end to 8'6" deep- $4,200.00
4) 9’ x 9’ tanning ledge- $5,600.00
5) 825sq ft of pavers @$26 per sq ft- $21,450.00
6) Heat Pump- $4,000.00
7) 15 Loads of Dirt removal, haul and dispose @$600 per load- $9,000.00
8) Jandy Fusion Salt system with mineral cartridge- $4,995.00
1) Autocover- $16,500.00 2) 6’ Diving board installed- $4,800.00
2) 6’ Diving board installed - $4,800
3) Add 2' depth to deep end to 8'6" deep- $4,200.00 4)
4) 9’ x 9’ tanning ledge- $5,600.00 5)
5) 825sq ft of pavers @$26 per sq ft- $21,450.00
6) Heat Pump- $4,000.00
7) 15 Loads of Dirt removal, haul and dispose of @$600 per load- $9,000.00
8) Jandy Fusion Salt system with mineral cartridge- $4,995.00

POOL OPTIONS TOTAL – $70,545.00
POOL & PATIO & OPTIONS TOTAL – $152,545.00

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP.
It is great that you have been reading on the forum so you may already have an inkling as to some recommendations.

It is best to grow with a straight up salt system. Jandy makes the AquaPure 1400. It is actually part of the optional Jandy Fusion Salt system with mineral cartridge however you really do not want the mineral cartridge. So just get the AquaPure 1400. Your saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) should be 2x the volume of your pool. The AP1400 is rated to 40k gals so your pool should be around the 20k gal est. volume. However I see you have an option to go deeper and add a diving board - so verify with the PB what the volume will be before committing to the size of the SWCG.

Great that you the AquaLink RS-PS8 automation system as that has the most versatility for Jandy system.

A cover is great if you have lots of debris or you wish to keep the heat in.

A de filter is great but a cartridge filter is easier to maintain. Your choice as either is good.

The Polaris 280 cleaner is a pressure side cleaner and requires a booster pump As noted. It may be best to delete that and just go with a robot that you can purchase on your own.

Be sure to purchase your own test kit. Test Kits Compared

 

[clarkboy]

Hi Herman,

Thanks for taking the time to reply it is greatly appreciated. It’s been a pretty hectic process trying to get all of this stuff in order. We are taking your advice with some of the pool equipment.

We’ve decided on getting a cartridge filter instead of the DE. Like you my builder said it’s much easier to maintain than a DE filter.

We scrapped the Polaris cleaner and will purchase a robot.

The cover is needed because we back to green space with lots of trees, and between the leaves and varmints I think that’s the best option to keep the pool clean. It is a lot pricier than we anticipated however we think it’s the right decision.

Now we are trying to decide between chlorine and UV vs SWG. I’ve done a little research on both sanitation options, but not enough to make an informed decision. My builder is recommending going the chlorine direction. He said by us having a pool cover it will require less chlorine which should help with eye and skin irritation. Not sure how accurate his statement is so I need some advice from the experts. I just want a safe, simple to maintain pool that my family can enjoy.

 

[mknauss]

UV Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to Chlorinate Your Pool

Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[HermanTX]

Now we are trying to decide between chlorine and UV vs SWG. I’ve done a little research on both sanitation options, but not enough to make an informed decision. My builder is recommending going the chlorine direction.

Marty provided you some good reading material. Think of UV being an additional layer of protection, but it still requires chlorine to provide the primary sanitization. The SWCG will provide your sanitization on a consistent basis. Ultimately there is a cost factor and also a peace of mind factor which you need to consider for your situation.

Hope those articles are helpful and if you need any clarification please come back to the forum and ask.

A cover can provide several benefits, such as safety, reduce debris in pool, maintain heat in the pool and affect your chlorine usage.

 

[Newdude]

. He said by us having a pool cover it will require less chlorine which should help with eye and skin irritation. Not sure how accurate his statement is

You are welcome to come dump *6* gallons of 10% bleach in my pool right now. It will be entirely safe and you won't smell/feel a thing. You will raise my FC to 28, from 8, and it will be properly buffered by my 70 CYA.

If you dump *1* gallon in an unsanitary pool, the irritations happen immediately as the chlorine sanitizing produces CCs. It is too late at that point and 1 gallon won't cure it so it persists and the industry equates the irritations as too much chlorine. 'Less chlorine won't have that problem' they say, when they needed LOTS more, not less.

We'll get there when the time comes.

I would also like to say that after having a SWG and moving, I bought my new one before I inked the new build contract. The SWG was more important than the pool itself.

 

[ccbill]

7) 15 Loads of Dirt removal, haul and dispose of @$600 per load- $9,000.00

I've never seen or contemplated a contract for building a pool but it seems odd that the dirt removal is an option and additional cost.

 

[Newdude]

I've never seen or contemplated a contract for building a pool but it seems odd that the dirt removal is an option and additional cost.

It varies by location, if there is local demand for clean fill. It's either a commodity to be sold, or waste to be disposed of.

 

[clarkboy]

I've never seen or contemplated a contract for building a pool but it seems odd that the dirt removal is an option and additional cost.

I thought the same, but like Newdude said it depends on the location. In this area there’s a lot of rock and clay, so they are probably factoring that into the overall cost.

 

[clarkboy]

Marty provided you some good reading material. Think of UV being an additional layer of protection, but it still requires chlorine to provide the primary sanitization. The SWCG will provide your sanitization on a consistent basis. Ultimately there is a cost factor and also a peace of mind factor which you need to consider for your situation.

Hope those articles are helpful and if you need any clarification please come back to the forum and ask.

A cover can provide several benefits, such as safety, reduce debris in pool, maintain heat in the pool and affect your chlorine usage.

Read what Marty sent and decided to go with SWG. I don’t think the benefit from the UV justified the initial or future maintenance cost. The cost to make the change was pretty much a wash. The bioshield UV system was 1485, and to add Intellichlor IC40 was about the same price. Consistent chlorine in the pool from the SWG sounds more appealing to me.

What do you think about adding a Intellichem with acid tank and pump to keep the ph balanced? I know that there’s no real easy button for any of this, but if I can get anything to help I think is worth the money.

Now my wife and I are trying to decide on pool finishes. We viewed samples of Diamond Brite and a lot of different NPT finishes. Jewel scape was a big hit with the wife. She loved the smoothness along with look of the reflective beads. We were quoted 11,500 for the Diamond Brite. I think Jewelscape might be double that cost. I’m not sure I would be able to stomach that cost though. I am of the motto that you get what you pay for and buy once cry once, but this maybe stretching it. The finish is very beautiful though based on the samples and videos I’ve seen. What do you all think? Has anyone looked into this finish before?

 

[clarkboy]

UV Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to Chlorinate Your Pool

Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks for the very useful information. It definitely helped me make the decision to go with the SWG. I’m so thankful for this community to help someone who has very little knowledge of pools make informed decisions during this process.

 

[KevMo]

5) 825sq ft of pavers @$26 per sq ft- $21,450.00

What type of pavers? Are they being set on concrete or a sand base? I don’t know what prices are like in your part of VA, but $26 / sq ft seems high. It is well above the quotes I recently got in my area (Houston) for travertine on a concrete slab and a lot more than the travertine on sand quote. You may may want to call around to see if the PB’s quote is in line with decking contractors.

 

[clarkboy]

What type of pavers? Are they being set on concrete or a sand base? I don’t know what prices are like in your part of VA, but $26 / sq ft seems high. It is well above the quotes I recently got in my area (Houston) for travertine on a concrete slab and a lot more than the travertine on sand quote. You may may want to call around to see if the PB’s quote is in line with decking contractors.

Welcome to Northern Virginia, everything is extremely expensive here. My wife would love to be where you are just for the travertine. We were out looking at decking materials today and the only thing she really liked was the travertine. I had to keep redirecting her away by bringing up the cost…haha.

We are installing Unilock concrete pavers. It’s a 6”gravel base 3/4 crushed over a quartz sand base. I think I got that right . I’ll have to ask the pool builder again.

I like the idea of contacting local decking contractors. But my pool builder made suggestions like there’s something different about installing decking around a pool. That most decking contractors wouldn’t be familiar with installing decking around the pool. Almost like it was a specialized process. I took him at his word because he started talking about damage to the pool and warranties. That’s the last thing a homeowner wants to hear about their new pool.

 

[Newdude]

I took him at his word because he started talking about damage to the pool and warranties. That’s the last thing a homeowner wants to hear about their new pool.

Smells like he gets kickbacks for funneling business to his buddies to me.

FWIW, my patio guy said that they gave up doing the compacted bases here years ago for the labor involved. It was cheaper and easier to have a slab installed and then lay the pavers. The concrete company took two days to lay the slab and the patio took one day to lay out and another day to cut/lay the partial bricks. For $16 a foot I basically got 2 patios. (Local prices not withstanding)

The added bonus besides the time saved was that the slab was rebar'd to the pool shell and house and when settling occurs, it will support itself. Nobody would touch the patio immediately here the traditional way due to the amount of settling we get.

 

[HermanTX]

Read what Marty sent and decided to go with SWG. I don’t think the benefit from the UV justified the initial or future maintenance cost. The cost to make the change was pretty much a wash. The bioshield UV system was 1485, and to add Intellichlor IC40 was about the same price. Consistent chlorine in the pool from the SWG sounds more appealing to me.

Great. You will be very pleased over the long term with a SWCG. I estimated your pool volume to be 24 to 25k gals. So the IC40 should serve you well. However, I am a little confused - you mentioned earlier that you had the Jandy Fusion system and Jandy AquaLink automation. The IC40 is from Pentair. If you want to control your SWCG via your automation then you should match the same mfg. did you change to Pentair IntelliCenter automation? Refer to post #2.

What do you think about adding a Intellichem with acid tank and pump to keep the ph balanced? I know that there’s no real easy button for any of this, but if I can get anything to help I think is worth the money.

There are mixed reviews on the forum regarding the use of the IntelliChem. Again. this is a Pentair product.

We viewed samples of Diamond Brite and a lot of different NPT finishes. Jewel scape was a big hit with the wife. She loved the smoothness along with look of the reflective beads. We were quoted 11,500 for the Diamond Brite. I think Jewelscape might be double that cost. I’m not sure I would be able to stomach that cost though. I am of the motto that you get what you pay for and buy once cry once, but this maybe stretching it. The finish is very beautiful though based on the samples and videos I’ve seen.

I have a smooth polished finish by Wet Edge. See my signature. We love it. We put it in prior to COVID and the crazy pricing over the last several years. Again, search the forum and look at the feedback.

 

[clarkboy]

Great. You will be very pleased over the long term with a SWCG. I estimated your pool volume to be 24 to 25k gals. So the IC40 should serve you well. However, I am a little confused - you mentioned earlier that you had the Jandy Fusion system and Jandy AquaLink automation. The IC40 is from Pentair. If you want to control your SWCG via your automation then you should match the same mfg. did you change to Pentair IntelliCenter automation? Refer to post #2.

Sorry for the confusion and not updating my initial quote from the builder. Yes a lot of stuff has changed since my initial post. We’ve settled on a PB and the builder we selected works with Pentair products. I’ll post a updated estimate later today.

There are mixed reviews on the forum regarding the use of the IntelliChem. Again. this is a Pentair product.

I’ll search around and see what I can find. Based on the cost I’m being quoted we may have to scape this and add it on in the future. I can discuss with my PB about leaving enough space on the equipment pad to accommodate the add on.

I have a smooth polished finish by Wet Edge. See my signature. We love it. We put it in prior to COVID and the crazy pricing over the last several years. Again, search the forum and look at the feedback.

I’m sure it’s a beautiful finish. You get what you pay for that’s for sure.

I’m having trouble pulling up your sig picture.

I watched a few videos from a Wet Edge product manager explaining color, quality of product, and how the finishes give off different colors depending on water depth and lighting in the area.

 

[clarkboy]

Smells like he gets kickbacks for funneling business to his buddies to me.

FWIW, my patio guy said that they gave up doing the compacted bases here years ago for the labor involved. It was cheaper and easier to have a slab installed and then lay the pavers. The concrete company took two days to lay the slab and the patio took one day to lay out and another day to cut/lay the partial bricks. For $16 a foot I basically got 2 patios. (Local prices not withstanding)

The added bonus besides the time saved was that the slab was rebar'd to the pool shell and house and when settling occurs, it will support itself. Nobody would touch the patio immediately here the traditional way due to the amount of settling we get.

That could be the case. I’m going to reach out to a decking contractor like it was suggested and see what they have to say.

That’s sounds like a very stable patio and it’s built like a tank. You shouldn’t have any problems with it anytime soon. How much settling do you expect from year to year? And did you hire a decking contractor separate from your PB to complete that work?

 

[HermanTX]

I watched a few videos from a Wet Edge product manager explaining color, quality of product, and how the finishes give off different colors depending on water depth and lighting in the area.

Wet Edge does a good job in explaining the differences between regular plaster, quartz, pebble, etc. which is really applicable to any mfg - just the terms and name of product is different. The Primera Stone is what I installed which is a polished smooth finish. A comparable alternative is called Hydrazzo which has good reviews as well. Ultimately it comes down to preference and budget. Also, each has its own shades of color which IMO there is too much focus on a specific shade of color rather than product type.

 

[Newdude]

How much settling do you expect from year to year?

Most of it was undisturbed earth and will be solid. The 3 ft over dig around the pool settles alot. It's expensive here to use gravel and labor to make it solid so the companies doing tradional patios usually refuse to touch it for a year or more. With the slab, they tied it into the pool shell and it will support itself.

If they did a concrete patio, it would need the ground prep (labor $$) and more material to prevent cosmetic cracks. Mine can crack under the pavers and I'll never know. They didn't even use sand under the pavers because it was as flat as could be. They just laid them out and glued the perimeter edge and coping.



There's more detail in my build thread (in my signature) towards the end of it. Its kinda long because it was quite the adventure.

That’s sounds like a very stable patio and it’s built like a tank.

Funny you should phrase it this way. They used the Bobcat to move the pallets of pavers to where they needed to be. So any given area can evidentally support the pavers, and a Bobcat.

 

[clarkboy]

Wet Edge does a good job in explaining the differences between regular plaster, quartz, pebble, etc. which is really applicable to any mfg - just the terms and name of product is different. The Primera Stone is what I installed which is a polished smooth finish. A comparable alternative is called Hydrazzo which has good reviews as well. Ultimately it comes down to preference and budget. Also, each has its own shades of color which IMO there is too much focus on a specific shade of color rather than product type.

We definitely want a smooth finish and those product sound fabulous. And from the pictures and videos I’ve seen they also look really good. I’d be willing to pay more for a foundational features of the pool and subtract from other places. We just have to find that right balance.

Not sure if my PB offers any of those products though. We were given the options of white plaster, Diamond Brite, or Riverrok. I checked the area for Wetedge contractors and found a few applicators. Wondering if the PB will allow someone else to plaster the pool. For a 18x38 rectangle with a depth of 3.5 to 8.5 my PB wants 11,500 of DB and another 2,300 for Riverrok. I doubt he would be willing to lose that money. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to ask.