Pool greenhorn needs guidance

[clarkboy]

Most of it was undisturbed earth and will be solid. The 3 ft over dig around the pool settles alot. It's expensive here to use gravel and labor to make it solid so the companies doing tradional patios usually refuse to touch it for a year or more. With the slab, they tied it into the pool shell and it will support itself.

If they did a concrete patio, it would need the ground prep (labor $$) and more material to prevent cosmetic cracks. Mine can crack under the pavers and I'll never know. They didn't even use sand under the pavers because it was as flat as could be. They just laid them out and glued the perimeter edge and coping.

View attachment 458925

There's more detail in my build thread (in my signature) towards the end of it. Its kinda long because it was quite the adventure.

Funny you should phrase it this way. They used the Bobcat to move the pallets of pavers to where they needed to be. So any given area can evidentally support the pavers, and a Bobcat.

The rear of our houses look almost identical (minus the pool of course). When was your house built?

 

[Newdude]

The rear of our houses look almost identical (minus the pool of course). When was your house built?

2002. I like YOURS !!!

 

[clarkboy]

2002. I like YOURS !!!

Haha…Mine is 1993 so yours is a lot newer. That’s why I’m always running around fixing stuff. Not a money pit but I sure do spend a lot of money on it . My wife is the problem. She always wants to change something, .

 

[clarkboy]

Haha…Mine is 1993 so yours is a lot newer. That’s why I’m always running around fixing stuff. Not a money pit but I sure do spend a lot of money on it . My wife is the problem. She always wants to change something, .

She is the money pit

 

[clarkboy]

New pool estimate from PB we decided to go with.

1 PROJECT DESCRIPTION Qty Rate Total
Swimming Pool New Build Construction of swimming pool 18'x38'.
Approximate surface area: 684sq.f.
Features: Automatic Cover, Tanning ledge 9ft. radius Depth: 3.5'-8.5

2 EXCAVATION/SITE PREPARATION 1 7,800.00 7,800.00
Before the excavation process can begin, the site must be carefully examined to make sure there are
not any obstructions that could interfere with the process of work. All approved plans and drawings
should be presented at the site. Building permits as a minimum must be posted on a visible from the
main road location. Public utility locating company (Miss Utility) must mark all public utility lines (Gas,
Electrical, Sewer, etc) before excavation (Miss Utility will not mark private lines such as irrigation
pipes, well and septic pipes, etc. Customer is responsible to mark the on the worksite). Benchmark
has to be set, location and height of the pool must be approved by the customer. After the excavation
is completed a temporary fence, 4 feet in height, will install to surround the excavation site, designate
the area, or serve as a construction barrier.

Note: Silt fence, dewatering wells, interconnecting trenches, construction entrance, protection bunds,
gutter buddies, and drains could be installed to prevent runoffs and contamination.
Important: Using soil consultant companies to take samples prior to excavation from the designated
location and study, is strongly recommended. It provides information on bearing capacity, soil layers,
types, etc. For more information contact

3 HAULING AND GRAVEL 1 7,200.00 7,200.00

Hauling excessive materials(dirt), and delivering grovel, of approximately 170 cubic yards (17 loads)

Disclaimer: if we have to haul rocks or bad soil(clay or other) price will change

4 POOL FORMING AND REBAR INSTALLATION 1 7,050.00 7,050.00

Pool forming and rebar, mesh installation #4 rebar 12'' of center

5 POOL PLUMBING AND EQUIPMENT INSTALLATION 1 6,000.00 6,000.00

Installation of pool plumbing lines 2"/1.5" pipes and equipment
-Skimmer lines, including skimmer boxes
-Main Drain line, including Dual Drain or Channel Drain VGB
-Polaris Lines
-Return line
-Control valves

6 PLUMBING MATERIALS 1 3,600.00 3,600.00
Pipes 1.5"/2" schedule 40 solid PVC,
2-skimmers
2-return outlets
2-Main drain
3-Jandy/Pentair 3way valves

7 POOL SHELL INSTALLATION 53 530.00 28,090.00
-Shotcrete/Gunite at max 4000 PSI. Approximately 684sq. ft. top surface pool(up to 49 cubic yards of concrete)
- 11" beam, 7"-8" wall, and floor. Depth 3.5'-8.5'

8 POOL EQUIPMENT SUPPLY 2 300.00 600.00

Supply and Install Equipment Pad

INTELLIFLO VSF VARIABLE SPEED & FLOW PUMP 3HP 230V I 1 1,997.00 1,997.00
PENTAIR INTELLIFLO VSF FILTER PUMP 3HP 8-SPEED SETTINGS/TIMER 230V

CLEAN & CLEAR PLUS 420 1 1,407.00 1,407.00
PENTAIR CLEAN & CLEAR PLUS 420 CARTRIDGE FILTER

EASYTOUCH 4PSC-IC40 SINGLE BODY 1 2,388.00 2,388.00
Pentair EasyTouch 4PSC-IC40 Single Body Pool Or Spa Control System, Includes SCG Integration
& IC40 Cell

SCREENLOGIC2 WIRELESS INTERFACE 1 713.00 713.00
Pentair Screenlogic 2 Interface & Wireless Connection Kit

ZINC ANODE 1 134.00 134.00
POOL TOOL ANTI-ELECTROLYSIS 2"
IN-LINE ZINC ANODE

HEAT PUMP H/C 140K BTU 1 5,931.00 5,931.00
140K BTU 230V ALMOND ULTRATEMP 140 H/C HEAT PUMP 460958

GLOBRITE COLOR LED W/100' CORD 5 610.00 3,050.00
12V 100' 1.5"MPT COLOR MICROBRITE LED LIGHT (AMP-30-1310)

Pool light installation 5 515.00 2,575.00
Labor and materials to install pool light fixtures in the new pool/spa. Materials include: el. conduits, Jboxes,
Transformers, etc.

Electrical and Bonding work
Pool electrical and bonding: 1 5,300.00 5,300.00
Installation of supply line with sub-panel box up to 100 AMPS, including all the necessary breakers,
one outlet 5'-20' away from the pool, and bonding grid. Does not include a pool lights installation and
it will be a separate line item.

Tiles 144 48.77 7,022.88
Water Line Tile
Installation of 6" wide band of frost-proof waterline tiles, selected
Tile Manufacturer:NPT
Tiles Model: PARIS GLASS MOSAIC 1.05SQ/SHT Tiles Type:Glass

COPING STONE 114 65.00 7,410.00
Pool Coping Stone Installation of pool coping stone perimeter: 110 ln. f.
Coping stone Manufacturer/Distributor:
Coping stone Model/size: Coping stone Material type: Slate/Travertine

New Pool Plaster 1 15,224.00 15,224.00
Interior Pool Surface of a New Pool:684 sq.f., including water delivery
Manufacturer: SGM 90B Type: Diamond Brite
Color: Cobalt (Mix of 6 Mid blue + 4 Onyx )

Thoroughly prepare the concrete shell surface to properly receive the interior coating. This shall
include chipping and filling any voids and around all fittings and light niches using hydraulic cement,
modified grouts, etc.. Pressure wash and Acid treatment are required as the following step. The
surface must be clean, sound, and free of dirt, oil, grease, and scale deposits. MiraPrime Aqua-Blok
XL or AQURON® CPSP will be used to treat pool shells. Applying a cementitious bond coating agent
designed for the chosen interior surface. Cover the entire pool with a 3/8* to 5/8* thick coating of
marble dust and white Portland cement(White pool plaster only, other surfaces may require different
thickness and application). The new surface will be hand-trowelled smooth. The pool must be filled
with water immediately after the surface allows. For exposed aggregate surfaces, exposing and Acid
treatment has to be done before filling.

NOTES: NPC Startup Procedures MUST Be Followed. Surface damage such as stains, streaks,
erosion, etching (pitting), mottling (discoloration, and hairline cracks) Damage Due to
PoorWaterChemicals are NOT Covered Under Warranty. THE OWNER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
REFILLING THE POOL UNLESS THE CONTRACT STATES OTHERWISE

PRICE IS SET BASED ON THE TOP SURFACE AREA OF SQUARE FEET.
PAVER PATIO/POOL DECKING INSTALLATION 1,200 20.00 24,000.00
Installation of concrete pavers over 4"-6" 21A base with under base stone dust or quartz sand.
Polymeric sand is to be used to seal pattern joints. Installation only (Pavers to be provided by the
Client. Not Previous pavers ) IF WE NEED TO INSTALL DECK DRAIN PROVIDED BY THE CUSTOMER
WE WILL CHARGE $15 PER LN FT

Auto safety cover 1 15,170.00 15,170.00
Auto safety cover under mount cover -Cover Star pool cover
Eclipse Pool Cover System -WALK ON STONE LID
All meet the ASTM standard for safety covers as
specified in ASTM standard F 1346-91 when they are installed and maintained properly according
to the installation and homeowner instructions which have been provided by Coverstar

Pool drawings package 1 2,000.00 2,000.00
Creating pool structural/architectural drawing package for building permit only. Note: Not Include grading plan

Items&Parts 1 500.00 500.00
Extra cost for building the benches

Items&Parts 1 750.00 750.00
Extra cost to run an aerator line and install jet fittings + control valve

Items&Parts 1 420.00 420.00
Extra charge for plastering extra bench

Items&Parts 1 1,426.00 1,426.00
FLOOR COLORVISION BUBBLER GUNITE NICHE + LIGHT KIT WITH SUPPLY LINE AND CONTROL VALVE

New Pool Start-up
Perform initial pool start-up and balance of chemicals. The customer is responsible for maintaining
pool chemistry up to code and according to the requirements of the NPC for new plaster
finish after the initial treatment is performed.

Payment schedule:
10% Down On Signature
20% On Excavation
40% After Gunite Install
20% After Plaster Install
10% After Completion

Total $157,892.88

 

[HermanTX]

Payment schedule:
10% Down On Signature
20% On Excavation
40% After Gunite Install
20% After Plaster Install
10% After Completion

This seems reasonable, especially compared to some of the other threads where there were 40% to start and remaining 60% paid prior to Plaster.

EASYTOUCH 4PSC-IC40 SINGLE BODY 1 2,388.00 2,388.00
Pentair EasyTouch 4PSC-IC40 Single Body Pool Or Spa Control System, Includes SCG Integration
& IC40 Cell

SCREENLOGIC2 WIRELESS INTERFACE 1 713.00 713.00
Pentair Screenlogic 2 Interface & Wireless Connection Kit

Have you asked for the IntelliCenter package? It would include all of the above and probably for not that much more $$$. The IntelliCenter is substantially more robust going forward compared to the ET system that came to market over a decade ago.

Pipes 1.5"/2" schedule 40 solid PVC,
2-skimmers
2-return outlets

Ask that each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.
Not sure why you only have 2 returns. I would ask the PB to explain why as to get proper circulation I would expect a minimum of 3 and up to 5.
Post a graphic of your pool that this PB is proposing.

To say the least, this is a substantial investment and wish you the best for a good construction process.

 

[HermanTX]

One last item - I calculate a pool volume of approx. 30,500gals. It would be better if you requested the IC-60 SWCG as that would be rated at 2x your pool volume.

 

[clarkboy]

This seems reasonable, especially compared to some of the other threads where there were 40% to start and remaining 60% paid prior to Plaster.

Have you asked for the IntelliCenter package? It would include all of the above and probably for not that much more $$$. The IntelliCenter is substantially more robust going forward compared to the ET system that came to market over a decade ago.


Ask that each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.
Not sure why you only have 2 returns. I would ask the PB to explain why as to get proper circulation I would expect a minimum of 3 and up to 5.
Post a graphic of your pool that this PB is proposing.

To say the least, this is a substantial investment and wish you the best for a good construction process.

I’m just learning about the Intellicenter right now. I thought what I was getting was a top of the line product. Now you’re telling me it’s 10 year old technology, ugh. But that’s the reason I’m here to get advice from people that know a lot more about this than myself.

Yes, I was happy with the payment schedule. Couldn’t imagine having to finish paying for the pool before I can see the quality of work.

I will definitely make sure to ask about the skimmers. Is this something you would demand to happen? Do the returns also need to be independent runs? When I initially spoke with the pool builder he said that two would be plenty if they are placed correctly. We also have multiple spa jets in the pool. Those will be on the benches in front of the tanning ledge. Would those count as some type of return?

Yes, this is a huge investment. I’m already a little over budget, but I think getting the foundational elements in the pool is worth the extra money. I’m trying to keep it from ballooning anymore.

I’ll upload an overview picture that I submitted to the HOA for approval. I don’t have the high end design yet. I’ll get that when the PB moves forward with the county.

Thanks, I greatly appreciate the advice!

 

[HermanTX]

I will definitely make sure to ask about the skimmers. Is this something you would demand to happen?

It makes balancing your suction of each more manageable. Mine are on a single line and the far one has a lot less suction then the skimmer closest to the pump. Also, you want a 2 way diverter valve (such as a Jandy Never Lube Diverter Valve) on all 3 suction lines - skimmer 1, skimmer 2 and main drain. This provides the best control.

Do the returns also need to be independent runs? When I initially spoke with the pool builder he said that two would be plenty if they are placed correctly. We also have multiple spa jets in the pool. Those will be on the benches in front of the tanning ledge. Would those count as some type of return?

The common design if for return lines is on a single loop. The spa jets would count as additional returns, but are they functional when the pool is in standard circulating mode? Are the spa jets independently controlled? I only see one pump (Pentair IntelliFlo) so that would tell me that either they are all on or there is a separate run for those spa jets. It is best to ask for clarification from the PB how it will function so you can either accept it or make changes.

I did notice one other item - there is mention of a Polaris Lines which could indicate special lines for your spa jets. However, it also could indicate a cleaner line. However, I see no mention of the cleaner and if it is a pressure side cleaner there is a requirement for a booster pump which is not listed. So ask what is this "Polaris lines"

Installation of pool plumbing lines 2"/1.5" pipes and equipment
-Skimmer lines, including skimmer boxes
-Main Drain line, including Dual Drain or Channel Drain VGB
-Polaris Lines
-Return line
-Control valves

 

[HermanTX]

I’m just learning about the Intellicenter right now. I thought what I was getting was a top of the line product.

Good reading

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[clarkboy]

Good reading

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Oh gosh, there’s a lot of information in that post to process. I tried reading last night when I was tired, and don’t think I got much from it. I’ll reread again today. Thanks for another dissertation about pool equipment .

 

[gingrbredman]

thought what I was getting was a top of the line product. Now you’re telling me it’s 10 year old technology, ugh.

I think the Easy Touch system may actually be older than 10 years. It is a "fine" system, but if you are building a pool today, and have enough time in the process to spec out the Intellicenter now, it is a much better system for a modern pool. And it really should be cost neutral. The cost of the Easy Toch plus Screen Logic 9app control) should be about the same as the Intellicenter bundle, which really should be combined with an ic60, NOT an ic40.

It would be better if you requested the IC-60 SWCG as that would be rated at 2x your pool volume.

Herman is right, you can get the Intellicenter bundled with the ic60, and should be cost neutral. They have been harder to get these days, but as far ahead you are in this process, should have no issues by the time you need it.

Auto safety cover under mount cover -Cover Star pool cover

Excellent choice! I love mine, its a huge cost, but love it!

GLOBRITE COLOR LED W/100' CORD 5 610.00

Speaking of older tech, the Globite is Pentairs oldest light, and has a propietory niche for installation that will make it more difficult to replace in the future. When they fail, and these do seem to fail the fastest of all Pentair lights, you have to use another Globrite because of the special niche. The Microbrite is Pentair's newest light, uses an industry standard receiver for installation, will last longer, and is easy to replace when needed down the road with another Microbrite, or even an aftermarket light that works with the Intellicenter.

Love the details of the latest proposal, and your committment to do the research and find the best builder and pool for you and your family. Can't wait to see s rendering when you have one.

 

[clarkboy]

Herman is right, you can get the Intellicenter bundled with the ic60, and should be cost neutral. They have been harder to get these days, but as far ahead you are in this process, should have no issues by the time you need it

I spoke with my PB about the Intellicenter upgrade. So there’s a $950 difference between the equipment. And he couldn’t locate a IC60 option, but he said he would reach out to the Pentair rep for more information.

Excellent choice! I love mine, its a huge cost, but love it!

That’s great to hear, because it’s definitely not cheap. Just reading reviews and literature from the Coverstar site it seems like a quality manufactured unit. We don’t have little kids anymore so it wasn’t purchased out of concern for their safety. We have lots of trees and animals behind our house, and we are hoping it helps with that.

Speaking of older tech, the Globite is Pentairs oldest light, and has a propietory niche for installation that will make it more difficult to replace in the future. When they fail, and these do seem to fail the fastest of all Pentair lights, you have to use another Globrite because of the special niche. The Microbrite is Pentair's newest light, uses an industry standard receiver for installation, will last longer, and is easy to replace when needed down the road with another Microbrite, or even an aftermarket light that works with the Intellicenter.

The estimate is a little misleading because it was changed after the original was received m. It’s been changed about 20 time already, is that normal? The heading for the lights say Globrite, but right under that it states we are getting Microbrites. I did a little reading on the two. Decided to go with the latest version of Pentair lighting. So we are definitely getting Microbrites. It’s just a bit more than the others, but I’m hoping their longevity can offset the upfront cost.

Love the details of the latest proposal, and your committment to do the research and find the best builder and pool for you and your family. Can't wait to see s rendering when you h

Thanks I appreciate it. I couldn’t imagine not preforming my due diligence with this type of investment. I haven’t won the lottery yet, so I need to make sure this is right the first time . Once I get renderings I’ll definitely post them.

Ask that each skimmer is independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.
Not sure why you only have 2 returns.

PB was going to tie the skimmer lines together. Told him that’s not what I wanted and that they needed to be independent runs with their own valves at the equipment pad. Of course I’m being charged for it, but what’s $700 in the big scheme of things?

 

[mknauss]

And he couldn’t locate a IC60 option, but he said he would reach out to the Pentair rep for more information.

Pentair IntelliCenter 5PIC60 Kit - Pool only with Load Center and IC60

 

[HermanTX]

PB was going to tie the skimmer lines together. Told him that’s not what I wanted and that they needed to be independent runs with their own valves at the equipment pad. Of course I’m being charged for it, but what’s $700 in the big scheme of things?

$700 for 60-100ft of 2inch PVC is pretty high. I would try to negotiate that as there is very little additional labor. You already have the trench and the time to lay that line is probably under an hour.

 

[HermanTX]

I’ll upload an overview picture that I submitted to the HOA for approval. I don’t have the high end design yet. I’ll get that when the PB moves forward with the county.

Post these when you have time.

 

[clarkboy]

Pentair IntelliCenter 5PIC60 Kit - Pool only with Load Center and IC60

I’ll forward this link. Thank you!

 

[clarkboy]

$700 for 60-100ft of 2inch PVC is pretty high. I would try to negotiate that as there is very little additional labor. You already have the trench and the time to lay that line is probably under an hour.

I just got the new estimate and it’s $450. While we were on the phone he said $700. He said PVC right now is running $90 a tube after tax.

 

[Newdude]

He said PVC right now is running $90 a tube after tax.

They have their suppliers and have to take what they can get, when they can get it. Its rough as a consumer because in 3 weeks you may find it for $38 each at Home Depot and you can't help but feel cheated. You won't even realize that HD only has 2 pipes on the rack and it wouldn't have helped anyway.

FWIW my second pool has independent skimmer lines and the first one was tied together. I liked the T better because it had alot more pull. Now I need a higher RPM to keep the skimmer baskets from floating and even then there is bugs / sunblock / pollen that justs floats without being pulled down.

I'm happy to have options in case of a future plumbing failure, but at the same time, I doubled my chances with 2 pipes. There's a 50/50 shot that the extra leg is the one that fails. It's not all roses.

*edit that both pools had a main drain leg so I used to have 2 pipes and now it's 3. 2 skimmers with no drain would still have lots of pull.

 

[clarkboy]

They have their suppliers and have to take what they can get, when they can get it. Its rough as a consumer because in 3 weeks you may find it for $38 each at Home Depot and you can't help but feel cheated. You won't even realize that HD only has 2 pipes on the rack and it wouldn't have helped anyway.

I’m constantly feeling cheated. Prices are out of control in pretty much every aspect of life. Nothing surprises anymore.

RPM to keep the skimmer baskets from floating and even then there is bugs / sunblock / pollen that justs floats without being pulled down.

Well I’m glad I took the advice given and had them make that change. If an extra $450 prevents this issue, it’s money well spent.