Plumbing Schematic Review - Help?
- Thread starter Brant
- Start date
Hopefully this is my final request to have this reviewed. I REALLY appreciate everyone's willingness to help check this and provide feedback and insight into the workings of this pool design. It has been a lot more challenging than I realized.
Note that I understand I do not need a blower. I'm going to plan for it (from a layout and power needs perspective but test the spa without it). I can always install it later if we determine it needs it.
I'm also planning to keep the automated spa overflow bypass. This gives me the capability to overflow the spa while remaining in pool mode. I may not use it often but it's there if I want it.
Thanks again for the help! Please let me know if you see an error.
Note that I understand I do not need a blower. I'm going to plan for it (from a layout and power needs perspective but test the spa without it). I can always install it later if we determine it needs it.
I'm also planning to keep the automated spa overflow bypass. This gives me the capability to overflow the spa while remaining in pool mode. I may not use it often but it's there if I want it.
Thanks again for the help! Please let me know if you see an error.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Why are there hose bibs on the spa jet loop and the water feature loop? I get it on the main plumbing loop but seems redundant on the others.
Also, I think that using a TEE with a valve and 1 1/2" pipe with a threaded fitting is a better solution than a hose bib as it gives you more options for draining purposes.
Why not put the bubblers on the same pump as the sheer descents? That way, they can run when heating the spa.
Lastly, I would up size the spa jet returns from 2.5" to 3.0" and just make all that plumbing the same size. It improves performance by about 5% and it should not cost that much more.
Also, I think that using a TEE with a valve and 1 1/2" pipe with a threaded fitting is a better solution than a hose bib as it gives you more options for draining purposes.
Why not put the bubblers on the same pump as the sheer descents? That way, they can run when heating the spa.
Lastly, I would up size the spa jet returns from 2.5" to 3.0" and just make all that plumbing the same size. It improves performance by about 5% and it should not cost that much more.
Your vacuum line on the suction plumbing can be moved to Tee into the same line as your skimmers and main drain. That 3 way valve between spa and pool modes is designed NOT to isolate that line completely, i,e either pool or spa side will always be open. The valve rotates 180 degrees. So as you have it now, in Pool mode, you still will always need to manually turn off the skimmers and main drain to run 100% suction from the vacuum line. In spa mode you will need to manually turn off the spa isolation valve.
Some drains can be set up to have dual suction, but for the minor cost of a drain I would put in a second drain in the spa dedicated to the spa jets. You never know if a line breaks or gets plugged then both systems are down to circulate the spa. There was a post earlier that showed a spa with 2 sets of drains. If it were me, I would do that.
Some drains can be set up to have dual suction, but for the minor cost of a drain I would put in a second drain in the spa dedicated to the spa jets. You never know if a line breaks or gets plugged then both systems are down to circulate the spa. There was a post earlier that showed a spa with 2 sets of drains. If it were me, I would do that.
Good points. If I move the vacuum line, I still need to shut in the pool suction line valves (drain and skimmer). I don't see how moving upstream the 3-way eliminates me having to shut in those other valves.
I previously considered adding a manual valve downstream the 3-way and upstream the tee where the vacuum line ties in. At the time, thiss seems like the simplest operation to run the vacuum. Shut block valve downstream 3-way, open vacuum valve and turn pump on.
Is there a better way?
Good point. I updated the hose bib to connect to a 2.5x1.5 tee with 1.5" valve. We can terminate off the end with a threaded connection.
I took the bubblers off because of water volume needs to run both bubblers and waterfalls. Since I need to filter I would end up needing a very large cartridge filter to handle the flow. Plus I don't see a specific need to run the bubblers while in the spa. Seems like a minor compromise vs buying a massive filter. I can turn on the bubbler lights at anytime, right? I don't need to be flowing through them. The bubblers are more about lighting the splash pad at night anyway. Since they aerate the water, I'm not planning to run them a lot unless we are using the splash pad. I also don't see us using the spa a lot in the summer and I don't see us using the splash pad a lot in the winter. I see us using the bubbler lights often though.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
So tie in the bubbler line upstream of the filters rather than going through them. That makes sense.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
In your first drawing, you also had an auto 2-way valve on the sheers. That may be needed to balance the flow between the bubblers and the sheers. The bubblers will usually have more head loss than the sheers. Also, that will allow you to turn off the sheers while still having the bubblers if you wanted to.
It was previously mentioned by another person (ajw22) here...
quote:
It gets maybe too complex if you want three possible configurations of:
- Waterfalls on
- Bubblers on
- Waterfalls and Bubblers on
...........
I guess this comment seemed reasonable. Was it getting too complicated?
I'm under the impression that I can set the pump to operate at the correct rpm for the sheers only (and throttle each sheer's valve to balance flow) and then turn on the bubblers and increase rpm and throttle the manual bubbler valve to find the desired bubbler height with both the sheers and bubblers running. Note the two rpm settings and then set a normal (low) pump speed for waterfalls only and then set a second (high) speed for when the bubblers are also on.
Assuming the IntelliCenter has this programming capability.
I feel like I'll use the waterfalls more than the bubblers anyway so I'm fine with just having 2 options. (1) Waterfalls on and (2) waterfalls/bubblers on.
Last edited:
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You need two independent VGBA drains in the spa to the pool/spa pump and jet pump. Not one shared drain as you show.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
If you have a controller with enough valve ports, it shouldn't matter having an extra valve so I think you could do all three if wanted to.
The only issue is that without bubblers on, the sheers will have a bit extra head loss due to the valve positions being fixed which reduces pump efficiency a bit.
BTW, what really gets complicated is finding out you really wanted a particular control and not having it after the pool is built. Now is the time to take care of it.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Yup, and he needs two of them.
I dont understand. This would still be the case if I didn't have bubblers on the system.
I obviously don't understand pumps and head loss like you guys do so I'm not fully following what your referring to.
I originally wanted options to run one, the other or both. I like having options even if I don't use them.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You can physically put in the valves and actuators.
You may be limited in how the IntelliCenter can control what you installed.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
This about throttling (i.e. using fixed 2-way valves) to reduce flow rate. This increases head loss and reduces pump efficiency.
With the sheers alone, no throttling is necessary as you can use the pump RPM to control the flow rate.
However, when you have both the sheers and the bubblers running, you may need to throttle the sheers to balance the flow. RPM would need to go up anyway. But with an automated valve you can remove that throttling when not using the bubblers.
With the sheers alone, no throttling is necessary as you can use the pump RPM to control the flow rate.
However, when you have both the sheers and the bubblers running, you may need to throttle the sheers to balance the flow. RPM would need to go up anyway. But with an automated valve you can remove that throttling when not using the bubblers.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Not necessarily. Some channel drains can support dual suction lines: