- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Nope, diverter can be opposite the intake pipe so both output pipes are open.
Plumbing Schematic Review - Help?
- Thread starter Brant
- Start date
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
A 3-way valve is completely variable so you can set it up in multiple ways.
Port A 100% Port B 0%
Port A 0% Port B 100%
Port A 100% & Port B 100%
X% Port A, Y% Port B
The actuator can then be adjusted for whatever split you need in the two valve positions. In this case, it is 100% A and 100% A + 100% B.
Port A 100% Port B 0%
Port A 0% Port B 100%
Port A 100% & Port B 100%
X% Port A, Y% Port B
The actuator can then be adjusted for whatever split you need in the two valve positions. In this case, it is 100% A and 100% A + 100% B.
ok, i didnt know that. i think the way i have it drawn seems best...
assuming i automated both the 3-way and 2-way valves....
1) 3-way flow going up, 2-way valve shut= full flow is diverted to sheers (lower RPM)
2) 3-way flow going down, 2-way valve shut= full flow diverts to bubblers (lower RPM)
3) 3-way flow going down, 2-way valve open (pre-throttled position)= full flow to bubblers and throttled flow to sheers (higher RPM)
this also eliminates the pump having blocked flow because both paths are open.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
The drawing I did would also prevent blocking the pump as well. The 2-way valve never shuts off.
so i wouldn't need to actuate it? i could get away with 1 actuator on the 3-way valve?
fully open left
fully open right
both open
basically, 3 positions and the actuator will do all those? i had no idea!
can i get the pump to automatically change speeds between those three positions?
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
No, the actuator can only position to two locations. It is just that those two locations can be any two locations not just on/off.
Manually, the valve can go to any position.
The reason you would want to actuate the 2-way is that you don't want restriction when it is only the sheers running. So for that valve, the settings would be 100% on or partial off. Unless you don't care about efficiency.
Manually, the valve can go to any position.
The reason you would want to actuate the 2-way is that you don't want restriction when it is only the sheers running. So for that valve, the settings would be 100% on or partial off. Unless you don't care about efficiency.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You can manually move valves to multiple positions.
Pentair actuators only have two set positions. Think of A and B. There is no C.
You can set where A and B are on the valve.
doesn't this layout essentially do the exact same thing? but the 3-way valve is in a more traditional operation (flow left, flow right)?
1) 3-way flow up to sheers (fully open path)
2) 3-way flow down to bubblers (fully open path), sheer valve closed
3) 3-way flow down to bubblers and sheer valve opened (w/ sheers throttled)
or does your layout make it simpler in how it would operate? i really don't see a difference but i've never programmed the IC.
1) 3-way flow up to sheers (fully open path)
2) 3-way flow down to bubblers (fully open path), sheer valve closed
3) 3-way flow down to bubblers and sheer valve opened (w/ sheers throttled)
or does your layout make it simpler in how it would operate? i really don't see a difference but i've never programmed the IC.
i'm also looking at this from the perspective of how i get them to install it and it make sense. this is confusing as it is. i wonder how many people know that the 3-way valve can be on to one side or on to both sides? i guess this is why they call them diverter valves. lol
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Again. You draw 3 positions and the actuator only has two.
I suggest you take a break from drawing and download all the equipment installation manuals and review them.
Look at pictures of a 2-way and 3-way diverter and see how they work.
Look at how stop points are set on an actuator for A and B positions.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
A plumber will look to install things as simple as possible and make it as idiot proof as possible.
I hope you and the plumber are fluent in the same language.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
2-way needs to be in off position as well or you will get bubblers at reduced flow.
Correct, for bubblers only.
Sheer valve is not 100% open but most likely partially open.
As I said before, this setup will probably work but so will the one I showed. They are equally valid.
If you re-read what I said, #2 and #3 are the same 3-way position (open down flow). The difference is the 2-way valves position in each.
Everything you stated is what I was thinking when I wrote that. I'm understanding the points you guys are making. Thanks
- May 3, 2007
- 18,095
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I ran some more head calcs on your latest version.
Targeting 60 GPM for the bubblers, and without adding any extra head loss for the sheers for balancing, the sheers would be running at 75 GPM which is only about 4% more than the 72 GPM target. Since the sheers require a little more flow rate than the bubblers, it almost works out perfectly.
Keep in mind that these estimates are based upon a theoretical model for the sheer and bubbler head loss since I do not have any head loss data for the exact versions you are using. But there might be a possibility that you may not need any adjustments for the sheers.
Targeting 60 GPM for the bubblers, and without adding any extra head loss for the sheers for balancing, the sheers would be running at 75 GPM which is only about 4% more than the 72 GPM target. Since the sheers require a little more flow rate than the bubblers, it almost works out perfectly.
Keep in mind that these estimates are based upon a theoretical model for the sheer and bubbler head loss since I do not have any head loss data for the exact versions you are using. But there might be a possibility that you may not need any adjustments for the sheers.
That would be nice to not need to throttle the sheers. Thanks for looking at this.
Hello!
I took a break from this plumbing schematic and just now coming back to it.
So that automated 3-way valve we were talking about that is feeding the sheers and bubblers... it can be aligned for 3 positions like you have listed:
Port A 100% Port B 0%
Port A 0% Port B 100%
Port A 100% & Port B 100%
Is this valve actuator programmable for these 3 positions in the IC? How does this work to program? Is it as simple as A, B, C valve positions? And as simple as hitting a button on your phone? If so, can each valve position have it's own pump speed setting?
Trying to wrap my head around what I'll be dealing with to automate this and get it working like I need it to.
Thanks for your expert help!
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
We went through this earlier in the thread. Valve actuators can only have two set positions they move between.
OK, that's what I thought. So in order to use more than 3 positions on this valve, I would need to run it manually. Thanks
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,634
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
