Plumbing design

[manoweb]

Hello, I am planning to build a vinyl pool on my own and I am slowly coming up with all the requirements. The kit I am looking at has options for 1.5 or 2" schedule 40, flexible hose instead of rigid pipes. It is attractive to use flex hose, point to point connections instead of having to deal with many fittings, cuts and joins. However, is 2" considered enough by modern pool standards and/or are there negative aspects to flex hose that I'm not seeing? The alternative is I save the money for the plumbing kit and get my own locally.

Planned size for the pool is 18x36 feet, rectangular with auto cover, 3 to 8 ft deep.

 

[jtburf]

Our 15 x 30 fiberglass was plumbed with flexible 2" works great all plumbing past valves is normal PVC sch 40.

JOhn

 

[ajw22]

Rigid pvc pipe vs flexible pvc for inground pool plumbing

Hi all, run into some issues with plumbing with my inground pool install. I thought I discussed and insisted on rigid underground plumbing pipes because of all the discussion on this forum. So on the install date( today), surprise, its flex spa PVC hose 1.5". It's not specified in the contract...

www.troublefreepool.com

Flexible PVC is not as durable as rigid PVC. Long term you are more likely to have problems with it.

Flexible PVC can also be chewed by termites. Use your favorite search engine with “flexible pvc termites” for more on that.

 

[manoweb]

OK thanks. From the pictures I cannot understand if the internal part is smooth or not, this has an impact with the pump etc.
I was under the impression that schedule 40 defined a specific wall thickness, so why is the flexible less durable? I'll look into it. I also wanted to insulate the hoses/pipes, and I do not have any specific solution for that yet.

 

[ajw22]

I was under the impression that schedule 40 defined a specific wall thickness, so why is the flexible less durable?

Wall thickness does not determine puncture resistance. Insects can chew through flex PVC. Rocks can puncture it. The plastic material is different. See Flexible pvc hose for underground applications

 

[manoweb]

Interesting, thanks for sharing this. Speaking of regular, rigid PVC pipes, is sch 40 considered enough?

 

[ajw22]

Interesting, thanks for sharing this. Speaking of regular, rigid PVC pipes, is sch 40 considered enough?

Yes, make sure pipes are properly marked and don't use DWV fittings.

Types of PVC

Pool PVC (polyvinyl chloride) should be marked "Schedule 40". Schedule 40 PVC is made for water under pressure. If the pipe has ASTM D 1785 on the pipe, it's suitable for pressure applications. A rating of ASTM D 2665 means non pressure applications and should not be used for pools.

A pipe can be dual rated ASTM D 1785 and ASTM D 2665, but it has to say ASTM D 1785 if it's going to be used for pressure.

 

[manoweb]

Wow nice thank you. Good that I asked!

 

[manoweb]

Hello, here I am designing the pool subsystems. I intend to buy a vinyl liner kit and build it on my own, at times hiring the appropriate subcontractors. However, I plan to do the plumbing myself. Pool will be rectangular 36x18ft, 3 to 8ft deep, autocover.

The kit has few options, some more expensive than others, like aquagenie. I am kind of skeptical of these but I value some advice.
Otherwise the standard is 2 skimmers, 3 returns and 2 main drains; or 3 skimmers, 3 returns and 2 main drains.

How do I choose the number of skimmers? Are the main drains a good thing? I don't see myself draining the pool too often and if I must, I can always throw a hose in, but maybe I am missing the point

 

[ajw22]

Hello, here I am designing the pool subsystems. I intend to buy a vinyl liner kit and build it on my own, at times hiring the appropriate subcontractors. However, I plan to do the plumbing myself. Pool will be rectangular 36x18ft, 3 to 8ft deep, autocover.

The kit has few options, some more expensive than others, like aquagenie.

I woudl skip the AquaGenie. You don't want chlorine tablets in the skimmer becasue when your pump is off they create acidic water in the skimmer that then flows into your equipment when the pump turns on. If you use tablets put them in a floaetr in the pool. That said we discourage continuous use of tablets to chlorinate your pool because it adds CYA or calcium to the water.

The question is how do you intend to chlorinate your pool?

How to Chlorinate Your Pool

Before chlorinating your pool, you should know these simple tips. Learn the best way to add chlorine to your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

Otherwise the standard is 2 skimmers, 3 returns and 2 main drains; or 3 skimmers, 3 returns and 2 main drains.

2 skimmers, 3 returns and 2 main drains is fine. There is no reason for a third skimmer in your size pool.

Skimmer should be located towards the two prevailing winds directions.

You don't have 2 main drains. You have one main drain with two ports forming a VGBA compliant safety drain.

How do I choose the number of skimmers? Are the main drains a good thing? I don't see myself draining the pool too often and if I must, I can always throw a hose in, but maybe I am missing the point

The main drain at the bottom of the pool is not there for you to drain the pool. If you need to drain the pool we recommend you use a submersible pump instead of risking your expensive pool pump running dry and being damaged.

A main drain is not required. It can help in the circulation of water in the pool and ensuring the pump never runs dry if your skimmers get blocked by leaves.

Some people put the main drain on the wall in the deep end rather then the floor.

 

[manoweb]

I woudl skip the AquaGenie.

My understanding is that the aquagenie is both a skimmer and a return - that makes plumbing somewhat easier but I have read it has poor decoupling between skimmer and return, meaning not all pool water gets easily filtered. However, the marketing material of the aquagenie says the opposite. Oh well

The question is how do you intend to chlorinate your pool?

Oh sorry for not having made that explicit, a salt water generator. I just assumed that is the most modern way to chlorinate. In fact my wife demands a SWG she loves the concept and she drives to her friend that also has a SWG and she absolutely loves the water there. I am leaning towards a pentair integrated system with salt water, pump, filter. I will buy those independently from the pool kit.

2 skimmers, 3 returns and 2 main drains is fine. There is no reason for a third skimmer in your size pool.

Skimmer should be located towards the two prevailing winds directions.

Is that relevant with an autocover kit? I do not see why the pool shouldnt' stay covered pretty much 95% of the time

You don't have 2 main drains. You have one main drain with two ports forming a VGBA compliant safety drain.

Yes understood. Thanks for the reference. Your style that provides meticulous references and attention to detail reminds me of somebody that worked in aerospace before.

The main drain at the bottom of the pool is not there for you to drain the pool. If you need to drain the pool we recommend you use a submersible pump instead of risking your expensive pool pump running dry and being damaged.

A main drain is not required. It can help in the circulation of water in the pool and ensuring the pump never runs dry if your skimmers get blocked by leaves.

Some people put the main drain on the wall in the deep end rather then the floor.

Very good explanation. I have heard of "deep heat" that uses returns at the bottom of the poll (I plan to install solar heaters) - how would they fit in this case, are these typically deemed worth it? Maybe I should open my design/plan/build thread.

 

[ajw22]

My understanding is that the aquagenie is both a skimmer and a return

I think best flow is obtained by returns on one side of the pool and skimmers on the other. Skimmer and return in the same location is not able to get the water flowing around the entire pool.

Oh sorry for not having made that explicit, a salt water generator. I just assumed that is the most modern way to chlorinate.

Agreed SWG is the best way to chlorinate. Get a SWG that is at least 2X your pool volume.

Salt Water Chlorine Generators

Salt Water Generators are designed to produce small amounts of chlorine continuously. This is perfect for day to day use and reduces work for the homeowner.

www.troublefreepool.com

I am leaning towards a pentair integrated system with salt water, pump, filter. I will buy those independently from the pool kit.

Lots of us here are Pentair fans.

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Is that relevant with an autocover kit? I do not see why the pool shouldnt' stay covered pretty much 95% of the time

You need to open the cover and let the water breath and the suns UV burn off CCs. Otherwise your pool will start getting that chlorine smell. So you need to open your cover every day or so for an hour or two.

Very good explanation. I have heard of "deep heat" that uses returns at the bottom of the poll (I plan to install solar heaters) - how would they fit in this case, are these typically deemed worth it?

Some folks feel that they get more even heating from warm water from the heater when they have returns in the bottom of the pool. I don't think it makes that much deiffernce in a small pool. And more returns in the bottom of the pool involve more piping, a stronger pump, and more holes in your liner. You can decide if the added complexity is worth marginal benefits.

Maybe I should open my design/plan/build thread.

You can open a build thread in Under Construction or ask the Mods using the Report button on the lower left to move this thread to Under Construction and then build on it.

 

[manoweb]

Agreed SWG is the best way to chlorinate. Get a SWG that is at least 2X your pool volume.

I will have to make a model of the pool to calculate the approximate volume.

You need to open the cover and let the water breath and the suns UV burn off CCs. Otherwise your pool will start getting that chlorine smell. So you need to open your cover every day or so for an hour or two.

Opening the cover will have the side effect of evaporation and (I should run the numbers) but even a couple of hours per day might cool down the water quite a bit. I will do some research in this - however as you pointed out, I can already mitigate the situation by using best practices and install the skimmer in the right position.

You can open a build thread in Under Construction or ask the Mods using the Report button on the lower left to move this thread to Under Construction and then build on it.

I think a proper thread with introduction, explanation of my ideas and constraints is better than recycling this thread. thanks!

 

[ajw22]

I will have to make a model of the pool to calculate the approximate volume.

You just need dimensions of the pool and average depth. See Calculators - Estimating Pool Water Gallons

 

[manoweb]

You just need dimensions of the pool and average depth. See Calculators - Estimating Pool Water Gallons

Oh I realized the dig sheet of the pool already specified it's going to be just shy of 24,000 US gallons.
According to the link you gave me, I need a cartridge that is at least 480sq ft and a salt generation system rated 48,000 US gallons.
The biggest pentair cartdridge filter I have found is 520sq ft and they also have a 60k gal SWG.
My understanding is that for this type of pool 2in pipes are OK (no water features, no hot tub). I will open a design/plan/build thread tomorrow.

 

[ajw22]

520 sq ft cartridge will be good. IC40 cell will work. IC60 will be better. 2” pipe for suction line and eq pad. Returns can be 1.5”.

Will you have automation?

 

[manoweb]

Yes I intend to have automation, in a way or the other
I do automation stuff myself but I may go with a vendor's system unless it relies too much "on the cloud" or stuff like that. What I mean is, I'd prefer it to be able to work without an Internet connection.