Pentair Ichlor30 and Automation

[Jimrahbe]

B,

I went back and looked at a pic of your pool equipment pad, and re-listened to the video..

My guess would the noise is caused by the fact that you have a sand filter and running at a low rpm.. Nothing wrong with the sand filter, just the fact that to get there you have to go straight up about 100 feet... On my system, the output pipe makes an almost immediate horizontal turn and then into my filter.

I don't have that noise on any of my three IntelliFlos, that run at 1200 rpm, but none of them are plumbed like yours.

Is this a loud or bothersome noise? If not, I doubt it is a problem.

There is no law that says you have to run at 1200 rpm.. If it works better with the heater in the loop and/or running a little faster then do it...

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to test my theory..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bluthgg]

It's not too bothersome, but it's different sound compared to the SuperFlo (then again I wasn't running that low as I couldn't hit the GPM requirements for the salt cell). I will say, the flow is great though.

I'm also thinking I might need to change the pentair 3 way valve that they installed for the bypass. I can either restrict the filter or the heater now...it should be the heater or the bypass right? I think that can be done by unscrewing the top and re-arranging it. Or maybe it's not an issue.

I am also positive there is some suction side air leak - that bubble increasing below the lid after several hours of running. Also I can't seem to get 0 bubbles in after it primes as well. Maybe I need to increase the priming speed as I have a bit more flow with the bypass now? Can't believe how much more there is with the bypass.

 

[Bluthgg]

@Jimrahbe

So I shut the pump off and I can hear a weird noise coming from the filter -> Filter Noise with Pump Off

I can not for the life of me remembering hearing a noise like that previously. I'm wondering when they first turned on it blew something in the filter?

 

[Jimrahbe]

B,

I have DE and Cartridge filters, I don't have any experience with sand filters.. Sounds like air to me...

Does the water in the pump basket drain back into the pool when the pump is shut off??? It should not.

Let's see what @JamesW has to say about it..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

Probably air getting sucked in from the waste line due to a bad multiport spider gasket.

Disconnect the waste line at the union to see if you can hear the sound better.

Where is the sightglass that screws into the hole?

 

[Bluthgg]

It was in my hand I put it back in. Was trying to figure out where the noise was coming from.

I didn't see water rush back out of the pump basket to the pool. I did continually hear that noise as well as some occasional gurgling from the filter. Right now it sounds like the multiport valve has rocks or something in it. Very annoying.

After priming as a much higher speed the air bubble in the pump basket is much smaller - still there and slightly increasing (though looks like outgassing). Will keep an eye on it.

 

[JamesW]

Probably need to replace the multiport gasket and clean and lubricate the rotating parts and O-rings.

You should limit the flow rate for the filter to 15 gpm per square foot of filter surface area, which should be on the filter label.

 

[Bluthgg]

I will do that. Now interesting note, I backwashed at a higher RPM and now i'm not fully hearing that first noise. I still get some gurgling in place.

I do wonder if I just don't have enough back pressure at the lower RPMs (though flow is good ~30 or so GPM with bypass).

I'm not following about limiting the flow rate - I think the SD80 is designed for 75 or so. I'm running around 20-30 right now.

 

[Bluthgg]

I switched the orientation of the bypass valve to actually be a....bypass (previously restricted flow of the filter and heater not the bypass line) and restricting a little bit of flow to the bypass fixes the noise issue since the backpressure increases. While something I COULD live with, the noise was pretty noticeable and I would probably drive myself nuts. Also since a second backwash, I do not hear that weird sucking in noise from the filter.

On the other topic of bubbles in the lid with the IntelliFlo VSF: I can not for the life of me see what I'm missing. My SuperFlo got a pretty good rolling bubble in after 11-12 hours that I would purge by increasing the RPM. But when I increased the RPM I would almost always clear out all bubbles from the pot. The intelliflo seems to suck in air much faster and doesn't fully clear once I increase the RPMs.

IntelliFlo Bubbles

In the first part the water is below the lid but above the suction port. This was after running at ~1600 RPM for 12 hours or so. I don't believe the pump re-primed overnight. The second clip is running at 3000 - always see a few bubbles up top.

• I have saran wrapped the pipes/joints as a test
• Tried shaving cream
• Tried soap bubbles
• Tried running water over the lid
• Took out the drain plugs and wrapped in teflon tape and lubed the small o-ring
• Lubed the o-ring for the filter basket (and cleaned the area)

I do not seem to lose water when I shut the pump off. I don't seem to lose water in the pool. I can't seem to find any water leaks when shut off.

The pool company keeps telling me to backwash. I'm saying hogwash to that - I've backwashed a few times already. That and going to re-circulate gives the same issue. Am I missing anything? Is the pump too much for my system? I see 2 inch lines coming from the skimmer and main drain. I would think running at a lower RPM would be fine though - enough for it to keep up.

At least now that the PC100 is connected to the IntelliFlo (SmartSense) I feel better about shutting the pump off over night or few hours at a time. That way it reprimes and is ready to go again. I can schedule increases in RPM when it's running to purge some air and have it run rest of the day - just seems to odd that I can't get rid of all the air.

 

[Bluthgg]

I'm wondering how much all of this is worth chasing. At least with the intelliflo I don't need to run 24/7 so I can schedule to run at lower RPMs (for SCG) then bump it up to clear some air, and then back to lower RPMs.

Interesting enough though, I set the priming range to 2 (had at 3 previously) and it gave me a priming error after running for the prime duration. Is it possible I just don't have enough flow? I just can't see how given the relatively short run and having the skimmer/drain installed. I must be missing something, just don't know what. I ordered another o-ring and some magic lube and will try that next week.

Flow seems good, SCG is happy, filter pressure seems fine.

 

[Bluthgg]

@Jimrahbe is there anyway to remove these threads and put on unions? I did ask the pool company for unions (I even ordered ones myself). Unfortunately he installed so fast I missed it. Or maybe put unions after the connection?

 

[Jimrahbe]

B,

Yes, just cut the pipe and remove the old threaded part and install the union threaded end.. I'd cut right at the end of the fitting and then again on the pipe itself once you figure out how much you need to cut to make the new unions fit correctly.

It should be illegal to install a $1200 pump without pump unions..

I assume you have actual Pump unions and not the stuff they sell at home depot..

Like these.. https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai...ix8Km--tXvAhVFQ6wKHfgVCg0Q9aACegQIARBC&adurl=

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bluthgg]

Yep I have those exact ones. How easy is it to remove the old threaded part? I'm guessing I need to get rid of all that silicone or should it just slip off with some force?

I'm thinking of re-doing some of the plumbing they did as it's just not....clean. The 3-way they put in coming to the pipe (as they had to adjust for the intelliflo height compared to the SuperFlo) is kinked as they used the wrong elbows. That and the connection to the inlet of the multiport is not exactly...straight. If I wanted to re-do that as well, do you know what that union is called for the multiport valve? It's a 2 inch one but I'm having a bit of a hard time finding the exact one to get.



Still fighting two-ish issues:

• Air in the pump lid (I have tried...ALMOST everything) - would a higher flow filter help? I know that's the pressure side but I just can't see any air leaks whatsoever
• Noise when PSI/back pressure is low - if I increase the back pressure a bit it goes away (though flow is reduced) - not sure if worth pursuing further or really an issue - more of an annoyance

 

[Jimrahbe]

How easy is it to remove the old threaded part?

B,

Easy.. Just use a pipe wrench or a pair of plyers... and unscrew it..

The threaded adapter that is there now uses Teflon tape or pipe dope to prevent leaks.. If you look at the threaded end of the pump union, you will see an O-Ring that prevents leaks.. If you put too much tape on a pump union it will not screw in far enough to crush the O-Ring..

That said, unlike a useless threaded fitting, you can take a pump union off and on and tighten it at any time.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mknauss]

Use a blade to cut through the really unnecessary silicone sealant used. You will have to work to get that cleaned off for the pump union Oring to seat.

 

[Bluthgg]

Thanks Jim and Marty! I'll get to work removing that silicone sealant.

 

[Bluthgg]

While I’m in the process of cleaning things up, should I cut this coupler out and put a check valve here? The pb put one AFTER the salt cell previously.

The bypass was just installed by another pool company, wasn’t sure if the increased flow when I either bypass the heater (or partial bypass when not in use) would cause issues on the outlet port of the heater.

 

[ajw22]

Without that CV your heater bypass will not work if your heater is leaking or removed.

 

[Jimrahbe]

B,

Your by-pass will work just fine without a check valve.. But, it will not work, if the heater is removed as Allen points out.

I suspect the builder put a check valve there because you had a tab feeder which requires a check valve between the heater and the feeder.. A SWCG does not need the check valve.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Bluthgg]

Ok, lots of fun work lately. Added the hi-temp unions, changed filter to ccp420 (I did not like dealing with that sd80 and wanted a filter to better match flow rate of new pump), added a few inches to the inlet pipe while still having the space requires in the back for the pump.

I am not an expert on pool plumbing but did my best to make it work. Letting it sit overnight because I’m beat from cutting/changing the pipes. Fingers crossed!