Pentair 12 AMP Intellichlor breaker tripping

[deeMo]

I have Pentair EasyTouch control system with IntelliPH acid dispenser and Intellichlor IC40 SWG. I recently performed a pump head tube replacement on the IntelliPH. Shortly after doing so I noticed no power to my IC40. Upon further review I noticed the 12amp Intellichlor breaker was tripped. I reset and 10-20 minutes later it trips.

My system is about 4 years old now and the IC40 is only 10 months old. I checked voltage to the salt board inside the EasyTouch cabinet and it shows about 32 volts which is in perfect range. The small LED on the board is showing green. My repair tech thinks it's the IC40 but when I reset the breaker it (IC40) shows all green and passes the diagnostic test. At the same time he thinks the connector on the back of the IntelliPH is burnt. I really don't see where it's burnt. He's been wrong on other occasions and I think he's wrong this time. He insists that if the breaker is tripping it's the IC40. My gut tells me it's the salt board. I'm wondering what others think. BTW, I won't be using this guy anymore since he had no idea the IntelliPH and Intellichlor IC40 are all connected together.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum ---

I believe @Dirk can assist with some ideas to troubleshoot.

 

[Jimrahbe]

dee,

I suspect it is your ipH.. Disconnect the cell from the ipH and connect it directly to the EasyTouch and run if for a few days and see if the breaker pops again.

I doubt it is the Surge card (Cell power supply).

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

Hey dee, sorry for the IntellipH/IntelliChlor woes. There seems to be a rash of them these days. Follow Jim's troubleshooting step(s), and report back. While you're doing that, you can also examine your surge board (it's a small circuit board inside your EasyTouch), and the IntellipH board (inside the IntellipH). You're looking for a tell tale burnt connector, or parts close to the connectors that look melted or burnt.

Check out the images in this thread for things to look for:

Pentair ic40, surge board, intelliph and swg transformer.

First time poster, long time lurker. Ok I decided I’d do a sanity check real quick. I had an easy touch panel installed in 2019, along with the ic40 and the acid injector. It’s been working fine, I opened the pool, shocked it and ran the pool for 24 hours. This morning I noticed it wasn’t...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[deeMo]

Well darn, I bypassed the intelliPH and went directly to the EasyTouch. Upon startup, after 45 minutes of the IC40 running perfectly the 12amp breaker tripped. I reset and after 5 minutes the breaker tripped again. It's almost like it's something that takes time to warm up to trip the breaker.

I'm really trying to avoid replacing the IC40 as it's only 9 months old and according to the tech it only has a 60 day warranty since I bought it online. So where was I supposed to buy it to get a warranty? It's not like I got a great price, I think it was around $1100. My gut tells me it's fine since it works good and diagnostics are good when the breaker isn't tripped.

There are two things I'm hoping might be wrong. First, the breaker, they can go bad. Second, the surge board.

Dirk, I checked the surge board and there are no burn marks. See attached pic. It does appear the IntelliPH connector is burnt. See attached 2nd photo. Keep in mind this all seemed to start right after I changed the pump head tube on the IntelliPH. Could the motor have seized and burn out the IntelliPH board? And perhaps could that have caused the surge board to go bad? Obviously I need to replace the IntelliPH board but that's the least of my concerns. My priority right now is to get the IC40 up and running.

Here's a very well done video that explains why the 12amp breaker is tripping:

I checked the voltage to the board and it's about 32 volts which is within the limits so it's not an issue with the transformer.

This is so frustrating as my ex-technician wanted to do the shot gun approach and replace everything including the IC40 and intelliPH board. That's around $2300!

My last question, if it is my IC40 and the manufacture date is 7/2021, do I stand any chance convincing Pentair to replace it under warranty?

Thanks all for your help. Glad I found this forum!

 

[Jimrahbe]

according to the tech it only has a 60 day warranty since I bought it online.

dee,

Cells can be replaced by the owner and have a two year warranty. I'm pretty sure the original system has to be installed by an authorized installer, but if the original cell is bad, the owner can self install a replacement.

I'd try Pentair... the worst they can do is laugh...

I assume that you have looked in the cell and there is no scale and the plates look ok.

I also assume that your cell light is not flashing.

I'd try it again and this time measure the DC voltage going from the Surge card to the cell, between the large Red and Black wires. It should be about 35 volts DC when the cell is making chlorine (Cell light on) and about 40 Volts DC when the cell is at rest (Cell light off).

In the video, notice that they said the 12 volt circuit breaker popped without the cell connected. Did you try to let the system run for an hour or two with the cell disconnected and the surge card getting power??? If not your should try it and see what happens

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[deeMo]

dee,

Cells can be replaced by the owner and have a two year warranty. I'm pretty sure the original system has to be installed by an authorized installer, but if the original cell is bad, the owner can self install a replacement.

I'd try Pentair... the worst they can do is laugh...

I assume that you have looked in the cell and there is no scale and the plates look ok.

I also assume that your cell light is not flashing.

I'd try it again and this time measure the DC voltage going from the Surge card to the cell, between the large Red and Black wires. It should be about 35 volts DC when the cell is making chlorine (Cell light on) and about 40 Volts DC when the cell is at rest (Cell light off).

In the video, notice that they said the 12 volt circuit breaker popped without the cell connected. Did you try to let the system run for an hour or two with the cell disconnected and the surge card getting power??? If not your should try it and see what happens

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim, Good suggestion. I'll run it without the cell connected and see what happens.

 

[Dirk]

Keep following Jim's steps. But, yes, you're experiencing the same over-current problem (or a variation of it) that several of us are. It's either related to what you and Jim are working through, or in addition to that. You might want to follow this thread and/or help out if you want to get involved:

Pentair ic40, surge board, intelliph and swg transformer.

It’s hard to tell but it looks like in the bottom left a little chips might be burned Same chips that blew on my surgeon board. Right near d3 and d4. That’s why it’s not communicating with the ic40. Replacing the surge board fixed it. I can change the ic40 and it reports salt level back to the app.

www.troublefreepool.com

This is just one of many threads, where this issue is being reported. Some of us have fixed the burned connector problem, and there's threads about that, too. In the thread above we're discussing a work-around for the IntellipH problem, at least until Pentair fixes all of this mess once and for all. The pictures you've posted suggest they're aware of it, because there used to be a similar connector on the surge board, that was also charing (and melting in some cases!), but now it's gone and Pentair is soldering the big wires directly to the board (which is how some of us our fixing our IntellipH boards). You can read about that in post #3 of my thread:

Hacking IntellipH to work in cold water

As Pentair IntellipH (IpH) automatic acid dosing system owners know, the IpH depends on a Pentair IntellliChlor (IC) saltwater chlorine generator. The IpH uses the IC's power supply, and monitors its flow switch, so that it won't dispense acid if the IC is reporting low flow. Unfortunately, it...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

Oh, important, don't attempt any of our "fixes" until you've completely exhausted any and all possibilities that Pentair will replace things under warranty (which they should!). Our Frankensteinian efforts will definitely void any warranties.

 

[deeMo]

OK, I have now run the unit for about 3 hours with both IC40 and and IntelliPH disconnected. The 12AMP breaker has NOT tripped. Does this mean I'm screwed and have a bad IC40? Or should I spring for a new surge board and see what happens?

As for the warranty issue, what is the "correct" thing to say to Pentair since I bought the IC40 unit mail order? I did register it when I bought the IC40. This is my 3rd one in 4.5 years and 2 were replaced under warranty when all my equipment was new. Could it be the IntelliPH shortens the life of the IC40.

Dirk, I'll check out those previous posts. Thanks all for the suggestions. This is so frustrating.

 

[Dirk]

I'm not sure how Pentair handles the warranty when you buy an IC from Amazon. It shouldn't matter, but of course that'll be up to them. Be honest, but don't offer any info until asked. They're going to want proof of purchase, so it's going to come out one way or another. That said, if you get denied at first, call them tomorrow to get a different person on the phone. You'd be surprised how often that can work with customer service (not just Pentair). Sometimes they have some discretion, and sometimes it's just a matter of finding someone in the right mood!

Try honey first, if that doesn't work, then start escalating. Ask to speak to a manager and, respectfully, point out that you're experiencing a well known issue, and you'd like some consideration because of that.

Keep in mind, though, that if you're on your "nth" warranty replacement, you can't expect to get two years each time. Reasonably, the two-year clock starts with the purchase of the first one.

Just some ideas...

Frankly, Pentair sells these things claiming about a 10000 hour life span. THAT should be the warranty. The IC even keeps track of its usage hours internally. If your unit fails before 10000, then you get a new one, or at least you get a prorated price on a new one, whether it's been running for six months or ten years. THAT would be fair. And we all know, life is fair, right? But for some reason they don't call me to ask me my opinion!

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Dirk]

OK, I have now run the unit for about 3 hours with both IC40 and and IntelliPH disconnected. The 12AMP breaker has NOT tripped. Does this mean I'm screwed and have a bad IC40? Or should I spring for a new surge board and see what happens?

Sorry, I didn't answer that part. No, that's not what that means. If the breaker was bad, or just weak, and was tripping under load, it would very likely do nothing while not under load, so that's not a legit troubleshooting conclusion. Jim has suggested to another here that you could go about this cheapest first.

Replace the breaker first.
Then the surge board.
Then the IC last.

The other way to look at it, is if you replace the IC first, and that isn't the problem, that's not money lost. You'll have a new one, and a backup. You'll still get all the chlorine you paid for out of each. You'd use the new one first, until its warranty expires, then plug in the old one until its done, then go back to the new one. The only possible loss is if the ICs come down in price after supply chain issues resolve. But it's just as likely their price will continue to rise, so that's a roll of the dice. See what I mean?

I had suggested to another here, having the same issues, to temporarily replace the breaker with a cheap 12 amp auto fuse. You'd have to be handy with such things (it's an unorthodox solution, that would require some klugie wiring), but it'd only be a few dollars. Those breakers aren't cheap. But if you're more of a plug-n-play sort, and wiring is not your thing, the replacement will be the much simpler option.

Sorry, I didn't mean to step on your troubleshooting with Jim. Too many cooks. He's our Pentair expert, so I defer to him...

 

[Jimrahbe]

dee,

My gut says that if the surge card was bad, it would pop the CB when run by itself, most likely almost immediately. But my gut has been wrong many times before. There is no way for me to know for sure, it is just my "guess" based on past troubleshooting experience.

I suspect the that the cell is bad...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[deeMo]

Thanks Jim and Dirk, it really helps to hear all possible sides to the problem. I believe my ex-tech was totally wrong about my IC40 unit only having a 60 day warranty because I bought it online.

I'm not sure how Pentair handles the warranty when you buy an IC from Amazon. It shouldn't matter, but of course that'll be up to them. Be honest, but don't offer any info until asked. They're going to want proof of purchase, so it's going to come out one way or another. That said, if you get denied at first, call them tomorrow to get a different person on the phone. You'd be surprised how often that can work with customer service (not just Pentair). Sometimes they have some discretion, and sometimes it's just a matter of finding someone in the right mood!

Try honey first, if that doesn't work, then start escalating. Ask to speak to a manager and, respectfully, point out that you're experiencing a well known issue, and you'd like some consideration because of that.

Keep in mind, though, that if you're on your "nth" warranty replacement, you can't expect to get two years each time. Reasonably, the two-year clock starts with the purchase of the first one.

Just some ideas...

Frankly, Pentair sells these things claiming about a 10000 hour life span. THAT should be the warranty. The IC even keeps track of its usage hours internally. If your unit fails before 10000, then you get a new one, or at least you get a prorated price on a new one, whether it's been running for six months or ten years. THAT would be fair. And we all know, life is fair, right? But for some reason they don't call me to ask me my opinion!

Good luck, keep us posted.

I haven't called Pentair yet but did find some interesting information on the Pentair site about warranties. First off, my ex-technician is wrong about the IC40 only having a 60-day warranty because it was bought online. It's true, there are many Pentair products that if bought online or mail order only qualify for a 60-day warranty. Those products are known as TradeGrade. The IC40 is not one of them.

"TRADEGRADE WARRANTY: TradeGrade products (identified by footnote “2” in the table below) must be purchased from a retail store (brick and mortar), pool builder or pool service company. If purchased online (via internet) the product will only receive a sixty (60) day limited warranty."

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Jim and Dirk, it really helps to hear all possible sides to the problem. I believe my ex-tech was totally wrong about my IC40 unit only having a 60 day warranty because I bought it online.

I haven't called Pentair yet but did find some interesting information on the Pentair site about warranties. First off, my ex-technician is wrong about the IC40 only having a 60-day warranty because it was bought online. It's true, there are many Pentair products that if bought online or mail order only qualify for a 60-day warranty. Those products are known as TradeGrade. The IC40 is not one of them.

"TRADEGRADE WARRANTY: TradeGrade products (identified by footnote “2” in the table below) must be purchased from a retail store (brick and mortar), pool builder or pool service company. If purchased online (via internet) the product will only receive a sixty (60) day limited warranty."

That Pentair warranty page, which I must have read a dozen times by now, is confusing as all get out. But I think your take is correct. Besides, one could argue, that the IC cell is a consumable part, and is user replaceable. You shouldn't need to hire someone to slip in a new one, so the warranty shouldn't depend on who does it, or who sold it to you. That'd be like saying the warranty on your new TV is void because you bought it at Costco and brought it home and plugged it in!

 

[deeMo]

I called Pentair and now have their "approved" technician coming to take a look. I'm thankful when I registered the IC40 that I told them it was installed by a professional. I got the impression had I installed it myself it would only come with a 60 day warranty. It's like buying a computer then having a professional come in to plug it into the wall. I understand their wanting to protect their technicians but its ridiculous to not allow an owner a simple procedure. I'll let you know what this guy thinks.

 

[Dirk]

Have a cool drink ready for the guy! The tech that Pentair sent to my house to replace my IC40 definitely used his own discretion, whether he was allowed to or not. Pentair wanted him to replace the flow switch, but he said "Nah, I never do that, I just swap out the whole thing." Which is what he did!

The second time* Pentair just mailed me one and I swapped it in, but they never asked for the old one back (which still produces chlorine, but doesn't report correctly to my EasyTouch). Point being, both the tech's at Pentair and the guys they send out have some amount of discretionary powers. As I implied earlier, it's a bit of a roll of the dice: who you get on the phone and what they feel like doing for you at the time. Same goes for the house call. Here's to yours going well.

* Hopefully I've used up all the bad luck I've had with Pentair ICs... and my IntellipH... and my IntelliBrite... and my EasyTouch... and the plaster... whew... The pool sure looked like a good idea when the realtor first showed it to me!!

 

[Jimrahbe]

I'm thankful when I registered the IC40 that I told them it was installed by a professional. I got the impression had I installed it myself it would only come with a 60 day warranty.

Dee,

That is just not true.. While most Pentair items only have a 60 day warranty for a self-install, that is not true for the SWCG cell. You can install a replacement IC 40 yourself and still get the two year warranty.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[deeMo]

Dee,

That is just not true.. While most Pentair items only have a 60 day warranty for a self-install, that is not true for the SWCG cell. You can install a replacement IC 40 yourself and still get the two year warranty.

Thanks,

Jim R.

You're absolutely correct Jim. When looking through the Pentair site it does say the IC40 can be owner installed, but when I asked the tech at Pentair (via phone) the hypothetical question "What if I had installed this myself" his reply was, "It would have a 60 day warranty". I don't think anyone at Pentair really know exactly what the warranty really is.

 

[deeMo]

OK folks, the Pentair warranty technician came out and he was great! First thing he did was check the power supply before and after the transformer. He replaced the IC40 (no charge) and it works perfectly. I had him check out the IntelliPH and apparently the board is toast. I didn't want to say anything but I have a feeling the IntelliPH may have contributed to the IC40 going bad. He checked voltage coming out of the transformer and it was 31volts but oddly, the voltage coming out of the IntelliPH to the IC40 was 40 volts. How could the incoming inettliPH power be 31 volts and the power coming out of the IntelliPH to the IC40 be 40 volts? Seems odd.