Our pool has been black for a month

[SpongyMothKilledOurPool]

Hi folks, hope I picked the right spot to post this, & apologies for rudely hopping into the community just to desperately cry for help.

I'm not really the pool-knowledgeable-person in our household, but my husband seems to think he's already doing everything he reasonably can about this problem; and I just hate to give up when past experience has shown that some creative internet research can turn up some fabulously useful, but less-well-known, advice. My Google skills are coming up short, though--all my various keyword combos are turning up the same stupid fact-sheets & local news blurbs about these dang caterpillars, with all the information that I am already perfectly familiar with.

So, our problem: Many of you are probably familiar with the blight of the Spongy Moth Caterpillar (formerly Gypsy Moth). They suck, we hate them, the population explodes for a few years every once in a while and they defoliate oaks and make it highly unpleasant to be outdoors in areas they've infested. Yadda yadda.

Well, last year (year one of the outbreak in our area) the explosion of caterpillars didn't happen till a little later in the season, after our pool had already been opened. They still made the pool exponentially harder to take care of, but it remained swimmable, with daily skimming and almost daily swapping out & hosing down the pool pump filter.

This year, the caterpillar population exploded right as the pool was getting opened, and we watched as the poolwater, after getting shocked & running the pump constantly, turned from emerald green to swampy brown to black over the course of the next week or two. All the frass (caterpillar poop) & caterpillar hairs/bodies from the oak trees overhead have been more than the filter can handle, even with swapping it & cleaning it (rotation of 2-3 different filters) daily or every other day, running the pump most of every day.

They seem to have almost all pupated as of a week or two ago, but we still haven't seen any improvement in the appearance of the poolwater. Husband still has to shower those irritating caterpillar spines off his arms after each filter cleaning, because there are still that many in the water.

Anyone have suggestions or wisdom to offer? Many thanks.

 

[PoolStored]

HEY!!! Welcome to TFP! We have some super smart folks here that can likely help.

Can you post some pictures of your pool and equipment?

Also, if you fill out your signature, that will really help us...

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Wow. Just wow. I can't imagine how frustrated you must be by now!

Let me get a better picture of this- is your water clear but black with bug debris? Or has the water also gone black?? When you net the little buggers out, how does the pool water look?

I think one problem is that you're dealing with a cartridge filter, right?? Do you know how bit it is?? How big is your pool??

How do you sanitize your water?
What do you do to test the water?
Tell us about your pool size, what type of pool, blah blah blah.... that stuff really helps us get a fuller picture. Pictures welcome too!

Maddie

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP.
There is a wealth of knowledge by all the contributors across the USA.
Not sure I have seen any with the Spongy Moth Caterpillar but hey, I am sure someone has an answer.
It is best to describe your pool equipment such as type of filter, type of pump, etc.
Post pictures always helps - include your equipment pad and your pool.

 

[Dirk]

apologies for rudely hopping into the community just to desperately cry for help

It wasn't rude, it's why we're here, to help, and it's pretty much why most of us "hopped in" too! Welcome to TFP!!

 

[Dirk]

After you've solved for the water (or while you're solving)...

I've never used these, but many here swear by "hair nets." Some use the specific kind for pools, and others literally use hair nets because they're cheaper. You fit them over your skimmer basket and they keep stuff out of your pump's basket and main filter. You would have to keep a sharp eye on them, because I expect they would fill up fast, but it seems it would be easier to dispose of these several times a day versus disassembling your filter all the time. I guess they're called Skimmer Socks. Google for the best deal. Or @kimkats, what is the recommended hair net alternative for a skimmer sock?

https://www.amazon.com/Value-Brite-Pool-Skimmer-Socks/dp/B06XJ7VC21

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Ok, we *have* had a few Gypsy Moth pool posts- give these a looksee-

Google search results

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[kimkats]

Your rang????

Here are the hair nets:
https://www.amazon.com/ZMDREAM-Disp..._12?keywords=hair+nets&qid=1656699634&sr=8-12

I am thinking you may be better off with the ones Dirk linked to as they are "tighter weave" so may catch more of the smaller stuff like you are dealing with.

 

[SpongyMothKilledOurPool]

Wow I love how active this forum is! So many communities for these niche topics/interests can be pretty slow/difficult to get a reply.

We have an above-ground pool, 16x24, about.... 4? feet deep I think? It's super old, like maybe 20-30 years. I think it's a cartridge pump?
(Having just now googled that, the images look similar to our set-up. Haha, sorry, like I said I'm not really the pool person so I'm not fluent in any of this... but my husband, the somewhat more knowledgeable one, I'm feeling like he doesn't want to devote any mental energy to it this holiday weekend, so I'm trying to pick your brains without actually pestering him about any of it.)

Here is our goth pool at the moment:



I guess it's more of a super-dark green than black (can't recall if it was slightly darker than this a couple of weeks ago, indicating slow progress). Just looks black from a distance. There's definitely some stuff floating in it. Not sure how much he's been skimming with the net, but he's emptying the trap frequently.

Here's our pump setup:



I oughta get back to work for a bit instead of geeking out about pool stuff, but I'll try to return & complete my signature later. Thanks y'all for being so responsive! & for your sympathy.

 

[jeffchap]

It will help to get as much of the caterpillar debris out of the pool as possible. If they've sunk to the bottom, dredge them up with a leaf net as much as you can. This will leave much less organic material for chlorine to deal with and your filter to remove.

Your ultimate path to a clear pool will be to perform our SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain.
But before we can advise you on that, we need a good set of pool test results. Note that we do not trust pool store testing or test strips. We need the results from one of our two recommended kits because they are the only ones that can measure free chlorine (FC) in excess of 10 ppm, which will be needed to get your pool clear again.

Swimming Pool Test Kits Compared

What pool test kit should I buy? Why shouldn't I use test strips? Our recommended test kits will pay for themselves in no time!

www.troublefreepool.com

While you're waiting for your test kit to arrive, add 5 ppm of liquid chlorine per day. Use PoolMath to determine how much chlorine that is. If you can't find dedicated pool chlorine, plain old unscented, non-splash free laundry bleach will work. Just be sure to enter the strength into Pool Math. This will keep your situation from getting any worse. Do not add anything else to the pool at this point. And do not take any advice from the pool store! They will only try to sell you a bunch of overpriced snake oils which may only make the situation worse. You're probably going to need 15 to 20 gallons of chlorine, so you might begin stocking up.

While you're waiting for your test kit to arrive, take the time to read our pool school articles to learn what our TFP method is and why it works so well.

And take heart, here was my pool on 3/17


And here it was on 4/5 after adding nothing but liquid chlorine. TFP works!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

That pool needs Liquid Chlorine, STAT!! I'd say a gallon per day at this point, and a good brushing and netting out of any debris. Brush the walls too and keep the pump/filter running to circulate that chlorine good.

Our next advice is tell the Hubster you'll manage the pool, thankyouverymuch! And order up a good test kit which in the end will save you a bunch. Trust me on that.
Test Kits Compared

Here is a bit of quick reading to help you understand pools more - Pool Care Basics

And just to prove to you that we do things, uhm.... different than all pool stores--> How Clear is TFP Clear?
We believe in using the most basic of chemicals- Liquid Chlorine, CYA Stabilizer and Muriatic Acid. That's all normally needed. We about never step foot into a pool store for their "advice" as long as we have our trusty test kit, PoolMath , and this forum.

Maddie

 

[SpongyMothKilledOurPool]

OK, I've got my reading assignments!

I like the sound of the trap socks/hairnets thing, but husband poo-pooed it since most of the water going to the pump/filter is coming via the floor drain, not the pipe from the trap. We'll get some anyway & see if it helps, but clearly this needs a multi-pronged attack.

I innocently asked my husband what kind of chlorine we use, and he got a slightly deranged glint in his eye and said "Oho! You want to learn about the pool? Follow me, I'll tell you ALLLL about the pool..." Anyways, 40 minutes later he drove off to pick up our kiddo from summer camp, gleefully leaving me to finish spraying particulates out of the most recently blackened (after <24hrs use) filter.

I've learned some additional information.

1) The chemical corrective regimen that we've been using:
Currently (not during routine pool usage times... or at least not in these quantities/frequency) we're doing a 3 ingredient rotation, one each day in a 3 day cycle. We use SHOCK powdered chlorine, a large capful (so like 1-2 cups?) on day 1; algaecide on day 2; and baking soda on day 3. Then repeat. I am eager to read about the whys of A) liquid chlorine and B) liquid chlorine ONLY with no pH balancer. I gather that a high concentration of chlorine can probably replace the algaecide; & perhaps there isn't a need to alkalinize the water if you don't need to ensure powdered chlorine dissolves properly? When my husband was going over the chemical components, dissolving chlorine seemed to be the main logic behind not leaving the water acidic. Note that we probably have pool water more acidic than most, due to the tannins leached in from detritus dropped from the oaks.

2) The composition of the murky water:
There is a fair bit of debris (always accumulating more due to the oaks, even during non-caterpillar-plague-times). In addition to emptying the trap daily, he does skim what he can off the bottom with the net right after changing the filter each day. Hard to say how thorough this is for even big debris, since the water is opaque--so any skimming beyond what's on the very surface, is done totally blind.
HOWEVER, I guess a fair bit of the problem is likely down to dissolved caterpillar poop, as evidenced by the CLOUDS OF REDDISH BROWN that billow up from the bottom whenever he uses the net to skim for debris down there. Since it's pretty liquified, it can't be scooped out.

Anywho... I'll do some reading here over the weekend & probably order a test kit!

 

[kul]

My recommendation would be as noted above:
1) get a test kit ASAP (like order it right this instant) Test Kits Compared
2) scoop out all the dead bodies in the pool as much as you can
3) Download PoolMath
4) start adding in chlorine while you wait for the test kit
5) once your test kit arrives, start SLAM Process

 

[Flying Tivo]

Do yourself a Favor and try not to learn the old ways from your husband. Might as well surprise him with your newly acquired skills in TFPPool Care Basics.

 

[kul]

HOWEVER, I guess a fair bit of the problem is likely down to dissolved caterpillar poop, as evidenced by the CLOUDS OF REDDISH BROWN that billow up from the bottom whenever he uses the net to skim for debris down there. Since it's pretty liquified, it can't be scooped out.

This will require filtering from bottom main drain if possible for a long time until it starts to clear up. Or I wonder if you can manual vacuum and use a leaf canister if you have one to gather the departed?

 

[HermanTX]

Then repeat. I am eager to read about the whys of A) liquid chlorine and B) liquid chlorine ONLY with no pH balancer. I gather that a high concentration of chlorine can probably replace the algaecide; & perhaps there isn't a need to alkalinize the water if you don't need to ensure powdered chlorine dissolves properly?

Liquid Chlorine (LC) is for chlorination - this keeps your pool sanitized - no need for algaecides

Muriatic Acid (MA) is to lower pH and Alkalinity. A lower Alkalinity will slow the rise of pH in your water. A high alkalinity (above 80ppm) will cause your pH to rise too quickly. The TFP method finds that a Total Alkalinity (TA) between 50-80 and pH between 7.2 to 7.8 works best. No need for baking soda which raises TA (unless you have TA below 50ppm)

CYA is stabilizer that helps keep chlorine in the water. However, if you have very high CYA (>90ppm), your chlorine levels have to also keep rising to provide the proper sanitization. this is explained in the FC/CYA Levels

Sorry to throw a lot at you but these are the basics of the TFP methodology - along with doing your own testing as others have pointed out.

 

[Deb04]

The split of pool duties in our house is

i (wife) obsessively read this forum during the summer, do all the testing, add chemicals and decide what needs to be done.

My husband does all the heavy lifting, vacuuming, taking filters out of the filter for cleaning, carrying 40 lb bags to edge of pool for me to dump in, etc.

suggest working out a split with your hubby so that you can have a nice blue pool to swim in. I’m in the same area of the country as you, surrounded by pine trees, and pool is lovely, esp when it’s this hot. You can have that too, you just need a different way of managing it. We have a way.

 

[Deb04]

Oh, I forgot another duty of mine: telling hubby interesting stories I read here, like the person whose pool was so black there was a dead deer in it and they didn’t even know it. That was a while back. This site got their pool clear.

 

[Dirk]

I'll stay out of the advice fray, except to say the following, and this is from not only years on this site, but my own direct experience.

1.
You'll notice that all the "helpers" above are giving you the same advice. That's how this site works. This is not a "debate forum," it's a teaching website and we only teach one method, which we lovingly refer to as TFPC (Trouble Free Pool Care). It works. Period. Not for some of us, but for over 300,000 of us. (Just giving you some ammo for the hubby.). If someone comes on here and gives conflicting advice, those posts are quickly corrected or removed. What you'll learn here is fact, not conjecture, or experiments. It's time tested, torture tested, and based on pure science.

2.
Please heed the advice to stay out of the pool store, unless it is to buy only the chemicals we're going to recommend to you. The "regime" you're following sounds like pool store advice, or maybe a collection of internet advice. Whatever. But I recommend you pick one, only one, and follow only that. And, of course, that one should be TFPC. Do not mix and match advice, or use part of ours and some of someone else's. That will not work.

3.
I can virtually guarantee you that the fastest and least expensive way out of your current mess is to follow the advice here to the letter. So, to put it bluntly, not "probably order a test kit!" but rather "I've already ordered the test kit!" You're not going to get that pool back without one.

I can imagine you're going to get some pushback from the hubby, who, from your own description, isn't fully invested in the fix, and from the sound of it is not really doing what this is going to take. It's a simple formula: the more effort you put into this, and the closer you adhere to TFPC, the sooner (and cheaper) this will be over. If you half-arse it, it'll take way, way longer and quite possibly not ever resolve.

And I think it's safe to say that what you're doing now is never going to work. That MO would barely keep a perfectly clean pool from turning green, it is never going to clear your present situation.

So talk if over with the hubby, decide what you want to do, and how, and who's going to do what, then proceed from there. IMO, your choices are two: go with TFPC, or give up the pool. But maybe that's just me projecting, because those would be my two choices...

Good luck, and please pardon the tough love.

 

[jeffchap]

I'll arm you with a few facts for the hubs:

- Why liquid chlorine instead of shock powder and tablets? Because all solid forms of chlorine such as powder and tablets also contain cyanuric acid (CYA) or some other stabilizing agent. Once the chlorine is used up, the stabilizer remains in your water and binds with any future chlorine you add. So the level of stabilizer in your pool rises continuously, eventually tying up all of the chlorine such that it is not available to sanitize the water. This is what the pool stores call "chlorine lock". The solution is to drain and refill your pool.

The TFP method relies upon only adding the amount of stabilizer that is desired, then only using stabilizer free forms of chlorine such as liquid chlorine (aka bleach) or that made by a saltwater generator. Also, since liquid chlorine is already dissolved, there is no need to add anything else to help it dissolve. The less additives to be added to your water and measured and tracked, the better.

- Why don't we use algaecides? In a pool with the properly maintained levels of CYA and free chlorine (FC), algae cannot grow. Therefore there is no need to waste money on algaecides. Furthermore, most algaecides contain copper which can stain pools and turns hair green. Likewise we don't use phosphate removers. Phosphates are what algae feeds upon. If there's no algae living, there's no need to eliminate its food.

- Why do we insist that you perform your own testing? Experience here has proven time and again that pool store testing is spotty at best, and usually wildly inaccurate. If you doubt this, take a water sample to three different pool stores and compare the results. The reasons may vary, including uncalibrated equipment, improperly trained temporary help, and possibly the motive of trying to sell you chemicals. Here at TFP, we don't sell anything. Everyone here is a volunteer.

- Why do we only recommend two test kits? The TF-100 and the K-2006 are the only widely commercially available kits that contain the FAS-DPD chlorine test capable of measuring chlorine levels in excess of 10 ppm. Such high levels of chlorine must be accurately tested in order to perform our SLAM process to eradicate algae. Again, we make no money on the sale of these tests. But we insist upon them because without one you simply cannot follow the TFP method.

- And just in case you missed it above, here's what a TFP pool, including yours, can look like: How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Please).

Be sure to show him that. BTW, I spend maybe $200 - 300 per YEAR on consumables (salt, CYA and muriatic acid) on my 27k gallon saltwater pool by avoiding the pool store and only using off the shelf products from Walmart, Lowe's and Home Depot.