Opinion on proposed equipment roster

[CPM10V]

I’m close to getting started on renovating my pool. I originally planned on a salt pool but all I’ve heard from folks in the Phoenix area is to avoid them due to deck issues and the hard water here.

Pool is in ground 16 x 30, 25k gallons, gunnite, 3 return sets, 1 skimmer, aerator, whip cleaner return set.

I want to automate the liquid chlorine & acid dispensing. Is there a preferred Pentair product/controller for this if I wanted to use liquid chlorine instead of salt method?

Here’s the proposed Pentair equipment for salt:
Pump- Intelliflo3 VSF3 3 hp
Filter- clean Clear 520 cartridge
Waterco multi cyclone 50 prefilter
Intellichlor IC60 salt cell
Intellichlor IC40 power center
Intellichem controller with acid tank and pump
Spears 3/4 ball utility valve

Thanks for any advice. Any items nice to have but not listed?

 

[ajw22]

I’ve heard from folks in the Phoenix area is to avoid them due to deck issues and the hard water here.

Hogwash!

I want to automate the liquid chlorine & acid dispensing. Is there a preferred Pentair product/controller for this if I wanted to use liquid chlorine instead of salt method?

Stenner Pumps - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair IntelliChem - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Here’s the proposed Pentair equipment for salt:
Pump- Intelliflo3 VSF3 3 hp
Filter- clean Clear 520 cartridge
Waterco multi cyclone 50 prefilter
Intellichlor IC60 salt cell
Intellichlor IC40 power center
Intellichem controller with acid tank and pump
Spears 3/4 ball utility valve

What is the ball valve for? We recommend all diverter valves.

If you get the IntelliChlor SWG then get the optional IP Board to control the IntelliChlor power. Or get the IntelliChlor Plus system that uses Smart Sense with the Intelliflo pump to not run the SWG when the pump is off.

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[CPM10V]

Thanks for the advice. What’s your opinion on salt pools in the SW/Phoenix?

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for the advice. What’s your opinion on salt pools in the SW/Phoenix?

Many members in the Phoenix Metro area are very happy having a SWG. Maybe some will comment directly.

@MyAZPool @JoyfulNoise

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks for the advice. What’s your opinion on salt pools in the SW/Phoenix?

If you decide to use liquid, your pool will start to and become a "salt" pool and eventually have as much salinity as needed to run an SWG. The only way to prevent that is to never use chlorine in the water, but your water supplier likely adds some before sending water to you.

The salinity required to have a system "make" chlorine is in the 3000-3500PPM range. That is about 1/4 the salinity of your sweat or tears, neither of which would do damage to your deck. I got to believe that in the Summer in Phoenix there is a lot of sweating going on on pool decks. Anyone that is telling you to avoid an SWG is trying to sell you something and not looking out for your best interests. Even with the cost of a new cell, the cost for the amount of chlorine produced by a good system is much less than the cost of any other chlorine product over the life of a cell. When they first came out, the cost of a gallon of liquid could be as low as $.75 and the economics didn't work. It was more about the convenience, and the water actually "feels" better, had several customers tell me that. At about $8.00+ locally today, it makes much more sense.

Liquid chlorine is sodium hypochlorite, a mixture of chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide (the very basics, I'm not a chemist). When it hits the water it basically separates into hypochlorous acid (the "killing" form of chlorine), hydrochloric acid, and sodium chloride or good old salt. Again the very basics and all that is really needed to know about the reaction.

 

[Newdude]

Even with the cost of a new cell, the cost for the amount of chlorine produced by a good system is much less than the cost of any other chlorine product over the life of a cell.

+1. The 1000 jug equivalent of 10% chlorine my SWG produces would cost $6166* for me out the door at Walmart.

*the value of not lugging 1000 jugs is much harder to calculate, but it's alot.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I would love to hear which people have told you this. Salt pools are very common here with a variety of cells being used. I highly recommend it. I have used one for the last 23 years. I would highly recommend you use a water softener supply to top off your pool with if possible. That will keep your Calcium under control. Otherwise you will need to drain some water off every three years or so to bring the CH back in line. This is because our water is very hard naturally. If you keep your water properly balanced per TFP methods and your CSI between -.3 and 0 you will not ever need an acid injector.
Pool Care Basics
FC/CYA Levels
PoolMath

 

[Jimrahbe]

Intellichem controller with acid tank and pump

C,

I would not add this to your pool until you find out what your acid demand actually is...

It is just something else to go bad.

Manually adding a little acid once a week only takes a couple of minutes.. No automated machine can take care of your pool better than you...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[1poolman1]

C,

I would not add this to your pool until you find out what your acid demand actually is...

It is just something else to go bad.

Manually adding a little acid once a week only takes a couple of minutes.. No automated machine can take care of your pool better than you...

Thanks,

Jim R.

+1
They seem like a great idea until you have to troubleshoot to find out why they aren't working, then cleaning, calibrating, replacing sensors.

You won't do this often enough to keep familiar with the system, spend a lot of time doing research or watching videos, then calling a service tech who might know what he is doing. Even after 34 years I've only touched a very few and can't remember all of what is involved. The manual is 65 pages, and if followed, it takes more work to deal with the Intellichem than it does to add a bit of acid

Then you kick yourself for not just using a little liquid once in a while and saving all that money and headache. Your chemistry values need to be much stricter than you actually need in order for the dispensing system to work properly. And doing it manually forces you to go and check on the condition of the pool regularly as one should. Pools are like babies that never grow up. They need constant care and feeding. They can be Troublefree, but will never be maintenance free.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Many members in the Phoenix Metro area are very happy having a SWG. Maybe some will comment directly.

@MyAZPool @JoyfulNoise

I’m offended. Just lumping all us desert people into the same category … I live in Tucson. Beautiful, majestic, fabulous Tucson. I drive THROUGH Phoenix … as fast as traffic will allow it. Only weird ASU-loving people live in Phoenix …

It’s not like I see a post and say, “Oh Camden … yeah, sure, talk to @ajw22 … he’s from your area …” Hoboken, Camden, Jersey City, Cherry Hill, Morristown … it’s all the same, right??

 

[TinFoilHat]

I was in Tucson for 2 or 3 years in the late 80s and truly enjoyed the small town feel and the close affinity the city has with the desert. I was enthralled by the thunderstorms the developed directly overhead. That never happens in Phoenix. Then, in the valley, you have to buy on the fringe edges or in the mucho expensivo North Snottsdale to get close to the desert.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Snottsdale …

 

[MyAZPool]

I’m close to getting started on renovating my pool. I originally planned on a salt pool but all I’ve heard from folks in the Phoenix area is to avoid them due to deck issues and the hard water here.

I couldn't disagree more with all due respect to whoever made that statement about SWCG and deck issues.

I'm sorry, but I have owned pools with and without SWCGs, so I know the differences / pros and cons. If SWCGs were outlawed, I would buy some dirt (and some labor) and turn my pool into a putting green.
As much as I love my pool, I wouldn't have a pool without one (SWCG). But not just any off-brand SWCG. My current IntelliChlor IC-60 has operated for 6.5 years without one issue or any maintenance.
Why no maintenance has ever been required is another story for another time.

I want to automate the liquid chlorine & acid dispensing. Is there a preferred Pentair product/controller for this if I wanted to use liquid chlorine instead of salt method?

If you want to automate, the Pentair IntelliCenter is hands-down the best off-the-shelf option. But ONLY if you are NOT IT savvy. If I knew back in '18 what I know now, I wouldn't have needed it. But if you're NOT a "tinkerer", then yes, the IntelliCenter.

Just my friendly opinions in RED.

Here’s the proposed Pentair equipment for salt:
Pump- Intelliflo3 VSF3 3 hp: YUP. I've got one. It's a beast.
Filter- clean Clear 520 cartridge: ABSOLUTELY
Waterco multi cyclone 50 prefilter: Waste of money.
Intellichlor IC60 salt cell: 1000%
Intellichlor IC40 power center: You won't need it if you get the IntelliCenter with the IntelliChlor circuit board installed.
Intellichem controller with acid tank and pump. NO WAY. There are much better acid dispensing alternatives. But you must be willing to be creative like many here have done in this respect.
Spears 3/4 ball utility valve: Like @ajw22 said above. For what? Jandy valves are my recommendation for any pool plumbing application.

Thanks for any advice. Any items nice to have but not listed? PENTAIR INTELLICENTER - Costly but well worth it if you want "off-the-shelf" automation.

Good luck with your renovation. I've been there. It's a lot of fun.

 

[pjt]

Pump- Intelliflo3 VSF3 3 hp
Filter- clean Clear 520 cartridge

Excellent choice. A+

Waterco multi cyclone 50 prefilter

Optional and not really needed.

Intellichlor IC60 salt cell

Perfect for your pool.

Intellichem controller with acid tank and pump

Might be more trouble than it's worth. Manual MA dosing is fast and easy.

Spears 3/4 ball utility valve

Do not install any ball valves in your system. Use only high quality diverters (Jandy Never Lube or Pentair).

Any items nice to have but not listed?

Automation? Water softener for the fill line? Heater?

 

[djdonte]

For sure go with salt and the Intellienter with the salt power supply add on. I think anyone who doesnt want a salt pool needs their head examined. Its just too easy. The water is not really salty enough to cause corrosion concerns like seawater. Dont put a PVC ball valve on your pool pad, use a Jandy valve with an actuator. With the automation, pump, SWG and actuator you can control the pool from your phone sitting on your couch in your underwear. Automation is a little steep for me to install, but if you are doing a big job like that, its not much more.

The pre filter is really not needed, and the acid pump is just another thing to break honestly. My pool needs 6-8oz of MA every week or two. It takes two seconds to dose manually.

 

[Lake Placid]

If you still want to automate acid dosing with an Intellichlor you can look at an Intelliph over an Intellichem. It’s a “dumb” system that integrates with the automation/SWG and doses a set amount of acid on a timed schedule. It eliminates the Orp and Ph probes of the Intellichem which can be problematic for some users. It will not automate chlorine production, but with proper testing and adjustment of the SWG as necessary, you really have no need for automation to automatically turn on and off the SWG through Orp readings.

 

[CPM10V]

Thanks all for the replies. Sounds like I should:

Omit the acid injector
Omit the pre-filter
Use the newest Intellichlor Plus 60 cell
Specify all valves be Jandy diverters
Specify all plumbing connections to use unions
Unsure on a Controller/salt cell power?

What would be used to tie everything together & communicate (pump, swg, light)? I know IntelliCenter has been mentioned but it seems overkill for my simple pool, the only controllable features are a light & a manual valve to operate an aerator. Is there a “basic” Pentair controller/power supply for simple pools (e.g. SWG & a light)?

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[PoolStored]

Specify all plumbing connections to use unions

Specifying unions on ALL plumbing is not valuable. You want the pump and filter to have unions. The pump unions should be high temp.

Get the I/O board for the intelliflo3. It can handle the SWG and the light. Won't handle any valves. This should get you started without a huge investment in automation.

 

[Lake Placid]

Does your whip cleaner setup require a booster pump?

 

[CPM10V]

Does your whip cleaner setup require a booster pump?

No, those small fittings branch off into their own line from main pump. I’ve never actually used them for cleaning. The gate valve is locked in place that operates that line so they always have water going through them but it’s pretty low flow. I’ve wondered if doing an update I should cap the fittings & not use them, maybe would give more flow to main returns.